Members Casey Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 I have this friend - right - ... and this friend was with an original band for a long time, super dedicated, etc. Well this friend decided to quit his band for personal reasons. Just so happens this was a week or so before his former band went into the studio to record songs that he had helped write for... say about a year. My friend has no legal case stand on presently to stop his former band from using his hard work without at least giving him credit on the album as it is mostly instrumental music that is the concern here - and without a former agreement, melody and lyrics are the only items protected under intellectual property and copyright laws. Some might say "if your friend is creative, tell the friend to let it slide...since it's not a legal matter, but an ethical one." But he knows that. He has no desire to rejoin the band, but he doesn't want them to benefit from his hard work without at least crediting him. for his own legitimate reasons of course that may or may not be discussed here. Again, my friend has done his research and has no plans of pursuing any legal action as again, he already knows he has no case. my friend is merely asking for credit where its due. thievery plain and simple? To take someone's original work and claim it as your own without giving credit. right? man, my friend sure is butthurt about this. How would you react if you were my friend? I'd say his emotions during this ordeal have ranged from hilarity to infuriated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MadKeithV Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 If I were your friend I'd walk away from it, sit back, and realize that chances are slim that my former band would make any waves with that music anyway. I would then switch on my amp and enjoy playing and writing more music. I might also realise that they have no case against me using the music either, for exactly the same reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y0UNGBL00D Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 race to fame! has happened before. publish it first, publish it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 I'd say in a practical sense it won't really matter. The chance of the band he's left making enough money off these songs to get upset about is pretty slim. Has he asked for a credit from them? At the very least, if he played on the tracks and can prove he was at the studio sessions he should get a credit as a performer. In another practical sense, if your mate starts a new band there's nothing stopping him from using these ideas either at least to get started. From an ethical standpoint it's definitely a grey area. If the band was fully collaborative, then crediting the songs just to the band name wouldn't be wrong - regardless of who happened to be in the band at any given time, in my opinion. The band has a style they're aiming for, and often with band writing when I come up with ideas I'm arranging them specifically for that band, and I'd never have come up with the idea if it wasn't that exact band with those exact people. Also, your mate is the one who quit the band - I think it's a fair assumption that everyone in the band was putting in hard work in the belief that everyone was going to stick at it. Your mate's decided he doesn't want to be part of that any more, I don't think that should stop the other guys from being able to say "all music written by (band name). If they say "All music written by x, y, and z", and omit your mate, then they're lying. But hopefully they'll at least put your mates name somewhere on the credits. Either way, though, I don't think your mate should be so upset about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sixtonoize Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 Maybe your friend shouldn't quit the band a week before they're scheduled to be in the studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NaturalBornBoy Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 Maybe your friend shouldn't quit the band a week before they're scheduled to be in the studio. This. Also, {censored} it. Take it as a lesson learnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elemenope Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 This. Also, {censored} it. Take it as a lesson learnt. This. Just leave it be. He can write new songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thefyn Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 Maybe your friend shouldn't quit the band a week before they're scheduled to be in the studio. That is a dick move. All that work, studio booked. Bye. {censored}ing flakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fretless Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 unless he copyrighted his original works there is no proof he wrote it so yeah let it go and move on or step up for a Studio session and at the end of the day have something to hold in his hand, pop in his cd and get credit for his work . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cropduster Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 That is a dick move. All that work, studio booked. Bye. {censored}ing flakes. this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ke2 Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 What's their {censored}ing problem? Even these guys did the right thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Casey Posted September 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 this i think my friend would agree with you on the time situation guys. my friend quit the band due to a personal matter with the leader of said band. my friend practically begged to have a meeting in which he intended to rejoin and record after settling the situation with said band leader but still hasn't heard from him. the band leader refuses any kind of communication. again though. don't think he ever anticipated not playing on the album. all he wanted was a chance to make things right with the band leader before they went into the studio together. kiss and make up basically. band leader straight refused for no apparent reason. needless to say my friend is stumped. As far as the band is concerned: They have been around for about 3 years, have a significant local and regional following in about 8 or 9 surrounding markets, recently split with Universal Republic after 2 years. They may not have ever hit the big time, but they raised the money for this album solely by asking fans to fund it. They only asked for $2000 for tracking and were met with $5000 raised. There is a market for this band, and this band has serious fans, has played one of the mega annual concerts (lollapalooza) and all around seems to have something going for it than your everyday local band. This is probably part of my friend's concern whether he's right or wrong. Now with that information - any new takes on the situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rufus Leaking Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 How much did he 'help write' the songs? Did he create the outline / riffs and someone else just added lyrics, or did he just come up with a few parts to add to someone elses concepts? I have to think if the band does not want him back, he is not the main songwriter and therefore pretty replaceable. In which case, I would let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MadKeithV Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 Now with that information - any new takes on the situation? This to me reads like "your friend" said "If you don't put up with my drama, I will LEAVE!", the rest of the band said "Sure, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out", and he wasn't actually expecting that answer. Yes, tell "your friend" that he shouldn't dish it out if he can't take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elemenope Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 I still take the same stance. Just leave the songs with the band. Hopefully he will get credit for writing/helping write them on the album. It just doesn't sound like the band is really making enough money to really make a whole tizzy about the ordeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sixtonoize Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 needless to say my friend is stumped. No, your friend is the reason. It sounds like he thought that he was the big man in charge and tried to make a "You'll never last without ME" play, which backfired.Now, the rest of the band realizes that they're better off without him and refuses to cater to his drama anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NaturalBornBoy Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 Maybe you should tell us more about the situation that your friend tried to make right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Casey Posted September 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 This to me reads like "your friend" said "If you don't put up with my drama, I will LEAVE!", the rest of the band said "Sure, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out", and he wasn't actually expecting that answer.Yes, tell "your friend" that he shouldn't dish it out if he can't take it. His band is a 4-piece. The two other members supported him up till the band leader put his foot down on the issue - without discussing it with anyone. the other band members were silenced because they just wanted to get to work on the album and are afraid of the band leader/weren't good friends to my friend in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Casey Posted September 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 Maybe you should tell us more about the situation that your friend tried to make right? Well since the band leader wouldn't answer phone calls or make them to my friend, my friend was forced to correspond in texts. My friend kept his cool the whole time, saying things like "Please man, let's just talk - I think we both need to say some things and I'll even let you go first." At any request to talk, the band leader clammed up and the conversation was through. When it became obvious that my friend wouldn't get through to him, he tried management and the other band members who all said they had his back and agreed the whole situation was idiotic in the first place. Somewhere there was a disconnect and the band meeting that was set up for everyone to sit down and talk never happened. the band made an official announcement saying "we are greatly grieved that [my friend] has decided to part ways... blah blah blah" and that pretty much sealed the deal that my friend was not coming back. My friend is no longer at all interested in being a part of a group where he will be disrespected, and frankly if things are going to be run like that he wants nothing do with it. He's having a blast and making more money than he's ever made playing music. He is however very proud of the album that they wrote together and spent just as much time and money and sweat if not more than all of the band members on creating this album. He is merely asking for credit and any time that question has been brought up to his former band's management - no reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MadKeithV Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 Is your friend Mike Portnoy?;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitargod0dmw Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 My friend is perfectly fine without the band. So is he butthurt or is he perfectly fine? You're not making much sense for your "friend" If he is fine, then he should move on. He's the one that wanted change...and he got it. You said multiple times that he has no legal actions here, so what is he going to do anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 Checked out the bands webpage. It seems your friend might have skipped a show, then let some petty grievance cause a failed power play. Too bad. Don't piss off the band leader if you want to stay in the band. If things are really going so well, your friend wouldn't be letting any of this bother him. Curious, what exactly did your friend contribute? Note for note leads would be an issue, guidance input and direction as a collaborative effort not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Casey Posted September 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 So is he butthurt or is he perfectly fine? You're not making much sense for your "friend" If he is fine, then he should move on. He's the one that wanted change...and he got it. You said multiple times that he has no legal actions here, so what is he going to do anyways? Read more carefully. OP has had to reiterate points made in the OP a few times now. He's butthurt about the refusal to give credit for his part in writing the album. This album holds incredible sentimental value to my friend and his former band mates know that. Prior to the situation that made this whole thing happen they were all very much on the same page. There had been NO problems for 3 years, they were all best friends. This thing came flying out of nowhere and hit my friend like a brick {censored} house. In my friend's hometown, there is a closed facebook group for all local musicians. They all know the parties involved in the situation and 99% of them are with my friend on this issue which, to make clear one more time, is the credit. Homeboy has NO desire to rejoin his former band. Here's another piece of information that might add some perspective: the management did convey that they had already changed several parts and that they were going to try to change all of them. My friend wouldn't have a single problem with that - hell he hopes they do that. It would be the ideal solution to the problem imo. I'm not closed to taking advice from you guys, it's just that my friend really is being more than reasonable in this process. Even though he is emotionally hurt, he has remained calm, cool, and collected anytime he's spoken with anyone on the other side in this situation. If he is being an unreasonable douchebag, he needs to know ,but he'd also need a well-reasoned explanation why he's a douchebag to accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Casey Posted September 29, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 Checked out the bands webpage. It seems your friend might have skipped a show, then let some petty grievance cause a failed power play. Too bad. Don't piss off the band leader if you want to stay in the band. If things are really going so well, your friend wouldn't be letting any of this bother him. Curious, what exactly did your friend contribute? Note for note leads would be an issue, guidance input and direction as a collaborative effort not so much. Very interested as to how you found that out... haha. Yes, my friend was um... unable to play a show. I'll get down to the details on this if the thread gets to it, but let's leave that part alone for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MadKeithV Posted September 29, 2011 Members Share Posted September 29, 2011 my friend practically begged to have a meeting in which he intended to rejoin and record after settling the situation with said band leader but still hasn't heard from him. Jus' saying, you may think you've been really clear in explaining the situation, but you haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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