Edumacate me on Fuzz Face variants RB, telephant, Guitarslinger, et al?

[Ovid9]

So, I'm hopefully jamming with a dude and it'll turn into a full band situation. I've been intrigued by the Fuzz Face pedals as they were used extensively back in the 70s and stuff.

 

I love fuzz. I tend to go more the doom/stoner wall of fuzz route, but I'd like to expand my horizons a bit. (Especially since my Civil War covers Muff territory for now.)

 

Ok, all that said: Which fuzz face variant should I be looking at? There's a ton of different varieties. And then on top of that, there's there MXR Classic 108 fuzz, which I have no idea if its related to a Fuzz Face but is supposed to have that old school fuzz vibe.

 

Suggestions on what to get? Nothing boutique as I can't afford it. I gotta make do with more run of the mill stuff.

 

TL;DR version: Which Fuzz Face version/brand or possibly the MXR Classic 108 Fuzz. Or something along those lines?

[Ron Burgandy]

Any specific tones you like? The fuzz face is a cool fuzz however there are quite a few versions around.

 

 

I'd say start off deciding if you want silicon or germanium transistors. The bc-108 is a silicon fuzz and the bc-108 is the part name of the specific silicon transistor they use. The FoxRox hot silicon is a killer silicon fuzz made by a kick ass company.

 

 

Germanium fuzzes aren't as accessible to fuzz noobs as silicon are IMO. They're great, don't get me wrong, but much more finicky. The fuzz factory uses a pair of germanium transistors and it's out of control. They're also sensitive to things like temperature. I think germanium fuzzes excel at that gurgling/bubbling/blistering amp about to explode sound and in general they clean up better with your guitar volume knob.

 

 

 

Not to say silicon fuzzes don't clean up well or germs always do. The hot silicon is amazing with guitar volume while the fuzz factory thins out big time.

[Ovid9]

Thanks Dave! All handy information that I didn't know!

 

Hmmm, the germanium sounds pretty fun to mess around with. As for why I'm asking? Well, mostly just cause, but also cause I think it'd be cool to have on to fatten up leads (such as they are) and give a different grit sound sometimes.

 

I'm wondering if just a plain old Fuzz Face might not be the place to start with them? Probably the most common/likely to run across used and I could fiddle with it to get a handle on them.

 

I'm trying to think of specific songs, but right now the only FF user I can think of is Randy Rhoads and that's not what I'm envisioning at all really. Mind blank FTL.

[Neilrocks25]

I am happy that I modded that russian muff I had, it sounds a million times better. I can get vintage and modern sounds from it (well fuzzy ones) I will have to clips at the weekend or maybe tomorrow

[Ovid9]

I am happy that I modded that russian muff I had, it sounds a million times better. I can get vintage and modern sounds from it (well fuzzy ones) I will have to clips at the weekend or maybe tomorrow

 

I already have a really nice SUF Civil War pedal. It covers all my muff needs and honestly probably any fuzz tones I'd NEED if I were honest with myself. But...this is about wants. And and I wants a FF style pedal I think.

 

I don't know why. Damn you pedals and your ease of accumulating!

[Ron Burgandy]

A plain Jane fuzz face can be either silicon or germanium

 

 

 

Fulltone '69 = germanium

Fulltone '70 = silicon

 

 

Both fuzz face clones

 

 

 

 

Cheapo Dunlop fuzz face pedal you can find plentifully and cheaply usually suck. The tone they produce isn't musical and more obnoxious. I had one for a while and meh. The bc108 is much better IMO.

 

 

What's your budget? The hot silicon can be found for ~$120 on tgp if you watch. Or you can build your own clone called the hot chili on for like $70.

[Ovid9]

A plain Jane fuzz face can be either silicon or germanium Fulltone '69 = germanium Fulltone '70 = silicon Both fuzz face clones Cheapo Dunlop fuzz face pedal you can find plentifully and cheaply usually suck. The tone they produce isn't musical and more obnoxious. I had one for a while and meh. The bc108 is much better IMO. What's your budget? The hot silicon can be found for ~$120 on tgp if you watch. Or you can build your own clone called the hot chili on for like $70.

 

Ok, scratch the Dunlop. I might look into the BC-108 as I have heard good things about them. Even though its silicon, I'm not beholden to any one style cause I don't know enough about them. I wonder if my local GC has any of this {censored} I could try. Hmmm.

 

Budget....say $80-100. I don't have it to spend on a pedal now, but hopefully in the next month or so I might. I eventually want to try and build a pedal, and have heard good things about BYOC, but I have 3 guitars in various stages of projects I need to finish before I even attempt to tackle mucking up a pedal.

 

Thanks for the info on the Fulltones, I might check that route too as their stuff tends to get good reviews.

[paul88lx]

Don't rule out a RAT. They don't get full blown fuzz. But they do get fuzzy. Plus, they are generally a versatile OD/Distortion. Put a clean boost in front of one and it fugging sparkles.

 

I see older ones pop up on the used GC site for $60-$90.

[Ron Burgandy]

I had a love pedal 200lbs that was stellar. Absolutely a great fuzz to start with. Not sure what they're selling for now but I bought/sold mine for ~$100.

 

 

 

Silicon fuzzes are great too, man. One isn't better than the other, just different.

[Cougar Hunter]

Fuzzface type stuff I recommend(fun, useful, good sounding):

 

Fuzzhugger Algal Bloom - Very versatile, and pleasant sounding. All silicon. High gain for a fuzz face. Price is right. Quality is awesome. cleans up well. (buy one)

Fuzzhugger Velcroar - very rough and fuzzy, in a good way. Think Satisfaction by the Stones, or Robby K from the Doors. SI+Germ hybrid Cheap as hell. great quality.

Dunlop Bonamassa - Germanium, low gain, does what a fuzz face should. cleans up really well. Sounds like Doobie Bros China Grove

 

FWIW, I'm a Muff guy, but I'll never get rid of my Algal Bloom.

[Y0UNGBL00D]

i went from a fuzz factory to a civil war clone. it is silicon i believe. silicon to me, like ovid said himself, is kind of the "safe" fuzz in that it gives you the wall of thick, smooth fuzz that wont let you down for gilmour type stuff all the way to some garage madness.

 

like rb said, those germaniums can be a bit finnicky. but if you already have the CWM, why not try it?

 

can you solder at all? the BYOC stuff is great for the money. their triboost is one of my favorite boosts ever. i wish my keyboardist hadnt broke the {censored}ing switch on it

so i imagine their germ fuzz clone(s?) is above par as well.

 

imo its good ot have both, and, like, slinger, i think i will always have some muff variant around. i like my CWM over my USA muff because it seems to have a LITTLE bit more of the germanium unrulyness, but its still pretty manageable. it blooms/squashes a bit more when hit hard with that inital attack more than the usa muff does.

[imgooley]

Personally, for a fuzz face style, I think the MXR 108 is pretty killer. I love the wah buffer it has in it. Another fuzz-face type pedal to look at is the Analogman Sunface. I know that Dan Auerbach used it on a couple of recordings (I forget which ones), and I've seen him use it live. I think Billy Gibbons has used it as well. The MJM London Fuzz is another fuzz face clone, with a demo on PGS.

 

The fuzz face style pedal that I use is an LS Effects Fuzzy Wuzzy. The current model they sell only runs as a fuzz face, but the one I have is switchable between a fuzz face sound and a tonebender MK. II (or was it III?). So, 2 pedals in one.

 

The thing I like is the ability for it to clean up with the volume knob (common in a lot of lower gain, vintage style fuzzes, like the fuzz face). Added versatility.

 

FWIW, I think that the Fulltone Catalyst is the best low gain fuzz there is, although it doesn't get a hot as even a fuzz face.

[Y0UNGBL00D]

it could be said, generally:

face = black keys

muff = white stripes

 

though other factors are of course involved.

[imgooley]

 

it could be said, generally: face = black keys muff = white stripes though other factors are of course involved.

Negative. It's more about scope, I think. Dan uses a Green Muff as his base fuzz tone, has for years.

 

Main difference is the amps they run, and the guitars, too. I know more about their live sound than their studio sound, though. And mostly pre-Brothers at that.

[Y0UNGBL00D]

broad statement, i know. the feel i get from eahc represents that.

[imgooley]

Well they both run into distorted amps. Dan has used Hiwatts, lower wattage Silvertones, Harmony, Ampeg, Victoria, Fender (bassman, twin and super), and of course Marshall. I've only ever seen Jack White use Fender and Silvertone 100 watters. Dan has a more mid heavy tone, which I guess is why it sounds like he's not using a muff, but he eq's the mids back in after the pedal.

[telephant]

About germanium vs silicon: Think of it like early Hendrix vs later Hendrix.

 

Germanium Fuzz Face is really smooth and blends extremely well with an overdriven amp. Its got more mids than your typical muff and responds amazingly well to the volume knob. As far as germanium being finicky, supposedly they're temperature sensitive but a good FF is a good FF IMO.

 

Silicon fuzz is like later Hendrix in that its much brighter, more gnarly/aggressive sounding like its on the edge of blowing up, but still plenty controllable. It has more gain than germanum but doesn't roll gain off with the volume knob quite as well.

 

I like both. Dave already mentioned my two favorite. Analogman Sunface NKT275 (germanium) and the Foxrox Hot Silicon. I've owned them both for years now. They both sund great into a Fender clean or an overdriven amp. The Analogman gets the nod. It does Hendrix to stoner {censored} and everything in between. Stack a tubescreamer in front OR after it and {censored} gets real. The Sunface has an external bias control that compensates for tempterature but its sounds like a mid control. I usually crank the volume almost all the way up on my FF and keep the gain between 5-7 that way its fat and fuzzy but still clear and articulate.

 

That said, I think the MXR108(silicon) is a great place to start. I haven't played one but I keep hearing good things about it and the Hendrix Fuzz Face, which as far as I know, are the exact same pedal in a different housing. IIRC They're designed by the Way Huge guy for Dunlop. Pretty sure he also designed the germanium Bonamassa FF which I have had my eye on now for awhile.

[teemuk]

There are great differences between germanium transistors of different types, less in silicon but still differences. The parameter spread even among a certain type of transistor can be enormous, especially with germanium transistors. Fuzz Face is a design that is HIGHLY sensitive to that stuff. Due to that a Fuzz Face with two BC108's may sound very different than a Fuzz Face with two other BC108's. It really makes little sense to compare transistors of different type because you practically need to dvelve into deeper parameters - like device gain - and ways to select them for different positions of the circuit.

 

Jimi had and used a great bunch of Fuzz Faces, can you really tell from his tone what type of transistors he had at each case? NKT275, AC128, SFT363E, BC108C, BC183L, BC109, BC109C, BC209C...? How about supply polarity or component change revisions...?

 

Thought so.

 

Germanium = unreliable, sensitive to heat and probably even humidity, will sound different at home and at hot stage. Might not even work on the latter. Silicon = reliability but doesn't have the BS, vintage, NOS corksniffer bragging factor.

[telephant]

There are great differences between germanium transistors of different types, less in silicon but still differences. The parameter spread even among a certain type of transistor can be enormous, especially with germanium transistors. Fuzz Face is a design that is HIGHLY sensitive to that stuff. Due to that a Fuzz Face with two BC108's may sound very different than a Fuzz Face with two other BC108's. It really makes little sense to compare transistors of different type because you practically need to dvelve into deeper parameters - like device gain - and ways to select them for different positions of the circuit. Jimi had and used a great bunch of Fuzz Faces, can you really tell from his tone what type of transistors he had at each case? NKT275, AC128, SFT363E, BC108C, BC183L, BC109, BC109C, BC209C...? How about supply polarity or component change revisions...? Thought so. Germanium = unreliable, sensitive to heat and probably even humidity, will sound different at home and at hot stage. Might not even work on the latter. Silicon = reliability but doesn't have the BS, vintage, NOS corksniffer bragging factor.

Jimi used a lot of {censored} but I was using it was a frame of reference as early Jimi FF tones are smoother and tamer compared to his later FF tones.

 

You make germanium FF's sound totally unusable which is absolutely untrue. I've used them on stage for years, just as I have silicon and a number of other style fuzzes. They both have their place and one isn't better than the other IMO.

 

Furthermore, companies cloning these pedals are spec'ing their transistors before assembling them, so they don't vary like they used too. IMO, It's not a hard to find a consistant germanium FF these days.

[jimSG]

 

FWIW, I think that the Fulltone Catalyst is the best low gain fuzz there is, although it doesn't get a hot as even a fuzz face.

 

Hell yeah -- the Catalyst really is great and is kind of a stealth pedal around here. I don't know if I've ever seen it mentioned. It's one of my favorites and always has a place on my pedal board regardless of which other fuzz is my current favorite. The Catalyst is the one fuzz that is almost guaranteed to get along with any of my amps and the other effects on my board.

[JR13]

What about a Sun Face? I just ordered one, its a little on the expensive side but it sounds great and you can get a knob for easy bias adjustment.

[Ron Burgandy]

What about a Sun Face? I just ordered one, its a little on the expensive side but it sounds great and you can get a knob for easy bias adjustment.

 

If his budget was $250 that would have been my first and only recommendation. I'm saving for one myself

 

 

 

Shea is the fuzz face guru and when he tells ya it's good ya better believe.

[meelosh123]

Suggestions on what to get? Nothing boutique as I can't afford it. I gotta make do with more run of the mill stuff.

 

I have a Fuzz Factory and a danelectro Cool Cat Fuzz. The FF has to be first in the chain if I want it to clean up. Bridge with full vol and tone, or Neck with full vol and zero tone, or neck with vol rolled off. Very cool to get completely different sounds from a pedal just by manipulating guitar controls. It has "tame" settings that can always sound good.

 

The Cool Cat is solid and always sounds good to me.

 

Invest some money into fuzz so you can buy/sell/trade in order to try different fuzz pedals! They're all fun to use.

[Ovid9]

I have a Fuzz Factory and a danelectro Cool Cat Fuzz. The FF has to be first in the chain if I want it to clean up. Bridge with full vol and tone, or Neck with full vol and zero tone, or neck with vol rolled off. Very cool to get completely different sounds from a pedal just by manipulating guitar controls. It has "tame" settings that can always sound good. The Cool Cat is solid and always sounds good to me. Invest some money into fuzz so you can buy/sell/trade in order to try different fuzz pedals! They're all fun to use.

 

I hadn't even thought about danelectro stuff. Hmmm.

 

And I have..but...I have this problem with hording things. I don't like to let things go. Even things I never use or sound like crap. I really need to break that habit.

[Ron Burgandy]

The 108 can by used with a wah whereas a normal fuzz can't. Read up on loading the wah with a fuzz and how that all works. The smart dudes have come up with a small buffer circuit to allow em to play nice.

 

 

 

Anyway a good buffer in a pedal ain't a bad thing. It will actually help carry your signal better in a long cord run. Optimum length from guitar to amp is 18.5 feet since there's about a foot or so more wire path in your amp. Obviously with pedals we all go over that range so using a pedal with a buffer in your chain will prevent signal loss so long as the buffer is decent.