NGD! Saiga content

[newholland]

lemme posit it this way-- does anybody here believe in ANY sort of self-limiiting restriction-- i.e.- use of clips such as this except in sanctioned spaces like ranges, limitation of semi and full auto weapons to ranges , or any other such measures to sorta keep things safe on a grander scheme, or is it an all or nothing proposition?

i wonder, 'cause we're at a kinda critical place-- and i wonder if its gonna be a big battle between gun owners digging in heels, and the government diggin in its heels. where's the room for compromise- 'cause you can sorta see it's coming- but i haven't got much idea as to where it'll go.

again-- this isn't me being 'anti gun'-- it's honestly asking a question as to where it CAN go.

[newholland]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

Ok well then you and newholland would be the first I've seen that are legitimately interested as all I've seen for over a week now is attempts to slander the pro-gun side. If you call BS on that then maybe you should get off the forums and go check any news site. Maybe go check the list of people that were outed for owning a gun. Maybe see the propaganda like the picture below. You're late to the discussion. The pro-rights side has been dealing with this {censored} non-stop for a while. As soon as you question someone's needs and ask them to justify themselves to you you've already crossed a line. I like newholland but after him asking the same question that a ton of anti-gun people have been asking what should be expected? Then he pretty much tells us why we don't need them and he doesn't feel they are necessary which would support the idea that his question was leading. Which is fine, but approach with caution.

People on the other side are so out of arguments they are trying to appeal to insecurities by attacking guys in the nutsack. I mean really?

 

naw man-- honestly, genuinely curious. have i ever assaulted you regarding this? heck no- i'll talk from a place of believing what i believe- but not FIGHT you about it. i respect your opinion, and you've never been a dick about it-- at least not in a way that made me feel like you were attacking me. i know it's super hot button.. but that's why it IS so fascinating. i have plenty of conservative friends, but i'd rather understand them than just get mad at them for what they believe-- because there may be something useful in what they think.

[Mesa4x12er2]

 

Originally Posted by newholland

thanks mesa- we've discussed this kinda stuff before, and i appreciate that you're always willing to actually discuss it. i hear what you're saying-- but is that a necessity of everyday life? as a military rifle or law enforcement, good lord, absolutely! even on a range- i can see it. but gads.. i'm glad most people don't have such problems in their homes. at least yet

 

Necessity? No... until the answer is yes. The facto of the matter is if you end up in a hostile situation whether it be a typical home invasion or whatever, I'd rather have more in my magazine than less. I can always stop squeezing the trigger if I don't need it. Unfortunately stopping to change magazines while 2 dudes are shooting at you will most likely end up with you dead.

So yeah it's remote but I like to have the upper-hand wherever possible and my life is a pretty good reason to try and keep it that way.

[Mesa4x12er2]

 

Originally Posted by newholland

naw man-- honestly, genuinely curious. have i ever assaulted you regarding this? heck no- i'll talk from a place of believing what i believe- but not FIGHT you about it. i respect your opinion, and you've never been a dick about it-- at least not in a way that made me feel like you were attacking me. i know it's super hot button.. but that's why it IS so fascinating. i have plenty of conservative friends, but i'd rather understand them than just get mad at them for what they believe-- because there may be something useful in what they think.

 

Nah I get you man. A lot of it is knee-jerk reaction to the majority lately, which is apparently not you.

[newholland]

in the meantime, that ad you just posted... tantamount to a clearasil ad. 'he was so cute.. too bad about his zits/guns'

[Mesa4x12er2]

 

Originally Posted by newholland

lemme posit it this way-- does anybody here believe in ANY sort of self-limiiting restriction-- i.e.- use of clips such as this except in sanctioned spaces like ranges, limitation of semi and full auto weapons to ranges , or any other such measures to sorta keep things safe on a grander scheme, or is it an all or nothing proposition?

i wonder, 'cause we're at a kinda critical place-- and i wonder if its gonna be a big battle between gun owners digging in heels, and the government diggin in its heels. where's the room for compromise- 'cause you can sorta see it's coming- but i haven't got much idea as to where it'll go.

again-- this isn't me being 'anti gun'-- it's honestly asking a question as to where it CAN go.

 

The problem I see with this is at the range I actually only load up 5 or 10 at a time. The only time I feel I'd need/want the entire magazine is if I REALLY NEEDED it. Just look at the cops man. Shoot at a guy like 90 times and hit him 10 times before the dude goes down. I'd hope it wouldn't be like that for me and I really don't think it would be, but it could be. That's the wrong time to wish you had a bigger magazine.

[Mesa4x12er2]

 

Originally Posted by newholland

in the meantime, that ad you just posted... tantamount to a clearasil ad. 'he was so cute.. too bad about his zits/guns'

 

I know right? Point being that this {censored} is getting really immature and reaching. When actual arguments fail just start appealing to possible insecurities.

[NinjaRaf]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

Ok well then you and newholland would be the first I've seen that are legitimately interested as all I've seen for over a week now is attempts to slander the pro-gun side. If you call BS on that then maybe you should get off the forums and go check any news site. Maybe go check the list of people that were outed for owning a gun. Maybe see the propaganda like the picture below. You're late to the discussion. The pro-rights side has been dealing with this {censored} non-stop for a while. As soon as you question someone's needs and ask them to justify themselves to you you've already crossed a line. I like newholland but after him asking the same question that a ton of anti-gun people have been asking what should be expected? Then he pretty much tells us why we don't need them and he doesn't feel they are necessary which would support the idea that his question was leading. Which is fine, but approach with caution.

People on the other side are so out of arguments they are trying to appeal to insecurities by attacking guys in the nutsack. I mean really?

 

I understand where youre coming from. Ive seen that {censored} all over the place, too. I cant speak for NH on it, because Ive never spoken to him about his feelings on guns, but hes stated some things here. Personally, I dont give a {censored}. Let people own what they want. {censored}, Ive shot AR15s with these butts that bounce back and sort of make the gun full auto, but not really haha. That {censored} is WAY too much fun for me to be anti-gun lol...especially since I intend to buy a few high powered rifles with 20 rd mags at some point in the future. My best friends GF thinks its weird for people to own guns, and her and I and him have had arguments about it.

I agree that the anti-gun arguments are circular and go nowhere. There will be no point in making anti-gun laws because people who are going to commit crimes with guns will find a way to illegally obtain them, regardless of the laws in place.

Im just arguing here because I like Dan quite a bit, and he was getting attacked from all sides for something that wasnt really anything...just people misreading or reading too much into what he asked. I understand WHY people are doing that based on everything thats been happening, but I didnt feel like he was doing that, and I didnt think he deserved some of the words that some people were throwing around, so .

My reasoning for wanting some HPRs with multi rd mags is just because its fun. I like to shoot more than load a gun. If I could buy a 50 rd mag, Id get one just because its fun . I have no need for that {censored}.

Also, the chick in those pics is SUPER {censored}ing cute....goddamn!!

[newholland]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

I know right? Point being that this {censored} is getting really immature and reaching. When actual arguments fail just start appealing to possible insecurities.

 

what's infuriating to me is that you could make the same argument about ANYTHING '' oh-- he's so hot and smart.. but he rides a motorcycle/rides a bike/wears jeans/has x job..etc.'

maybe i'm a gadfly-- but at the same time-- {censored}ing a. what happened last week sucks, and if everybody's gonna agree on that, which they kinda do-- i kinda see that we're ALL gonna need to figure out what to do, and probably wring hands and pull hair for a while to get to any agreement, otherwise we're just giving up on the country. if we grow up and DISCUSS it like adults.. mebbe there's a way out that keeps both gun owners happy and people safe? loaded terms like 'need' are just the first impediment to a discussion about it- from the mouths of both sides. {censored} 'aisles'.. some problems are bigger than that. actually.. most are.

[larryguitar]

 

Originally Posted by newholland

larry, admit you 'want' your clip, and i'll shake your hand and let you want it. nobody {censored}ING needs a gun (capitals and profanity intentional) 'cause in the grander scheme of human need-- they don't. but you seriously NEED to loosen up- 'cause i ain't after you, and a gun grabber is a pretty hysterical characterization from where i sit. if this is all it takes to get you frothing at the mouth- i suspect you'd probably better prepare for way worse, 'cause it's not the likes of ME who's gonna be making problems- you've got a whole country of people WAY more 'gun grabby' than myself- and if you honestly believe 'being taken seriously' is something i'd worry about on a guitar forum... lord god help you.

 

I need it to compete in the sports I compete in. And that's more than anyone 'needs' a guitar.

[larryguitar]

 

Originally Posted by newholland

what's infuriating to me is that you could make the same argument about ANYTHING '' oh-- he's so hot and smart.. but he rides a motorcycle/rides a bike/wears jeans/has x job..etc.'

maybe i'm a gadfly-- but at the same time-- {censored}ing a. what happened last week sucks, and if everybody's gonna agree on that, which they kinda do-- i kinda see that we're ALL gonna need to figure out what to do, and probably wring hands and pull hair for a while to get to any agreement, otherwise we're just giving up on the country. if we grow up and DISCUSS it like adults.. mebbe there's a way out that keeps both gun owners happy and people safe? loaded terms like 'need' are just the first impediment to a discussion about it- from the mouths of both sides. {censored} 'aisles'.. some problems are bigger than that. actually.. most are.

 

"Loaded terms like 'need'..." And there goes any chance of your being reasonable. You just don't get it.

But that's OK, you live in Canadia anyway...

[Stevetemp]

 

Originally Posted by NinjaRaf

Why are you guys jumping on newholland? I dont see anything he posted as being anti-gun at all. His first post in here was a question....OP said something about the gun doing what he was "needing" it to do. I love guns, and after first reading the OP, I was also thinking...what could he be "needing" a gun like this to do? If youre a civilian, there isnt even a "need" to have this type of weapon. I dont see newhollands question as anit-gun, but more as just a genuine curiosity and inquiry.

Like I said, I love guns, and I support the right of US citizens to exercise our constitutional right to bear arms, but I can honestly say that I see no "need" in having that type of weapon. I can certainly see the fun aspect, as who doesnt like shooting more and loading less, but again...OP said need, and I thought the same thing NH did about what could you possibly NEED this gun to be doing.

Yall are becoming a huge bunch of sensitive pussies....seriously...lets buy guns and then be bitches and purposefully read too much into what people are saying, even if its not anti gun. Isnt that how women think? Are you all becoming a bunch of gun toting women? If thats the case, maybe yall shouldnt have guns .

 

I think you're giving him too much credit.

"What do you need THAT for"? Come on. Transparent. Talk about being a {censored}.

Of course this is not about NEED....generally speaking...so to even ask that question is a bunch of {censored} political social nazi crap.

I guess gun rights advocates had enough of this {censored} in the other thread?

[larryguitar]

 

Originally Posted by newholland

lemme posit it this way-- does anybody here believe in ANY sort of self-limiiting restriction-- i.e.- use of clips such as this except in sanctioned spaces like ranges, limitation of semi and full auto weapons to ranges , or any other such measures to sorta keep things safe on a grander scheme, or is it an all or nothing proposition?

i wonder, 'cause we're at a kinda critical place-- and i wonder if its gonna be a big battle between gun owners digging in heels, and the government diggin in its heels. where's the room for compromise- 'cause you can sorta see it's coming- but i haven't got much idea as to where it'll go.

again-- this isn't me being 'anti gun'-- it's honestly asking a question as to where it CAN go.

 

My mag changes take .9 of a second-explain how banning full-caps is going to make me less 'dangerous' again?

And the fastest shooting ever done was done with a revolver; how is banning semi-autos going to make us safe, again?

These 'solutions' don't work; they DIDN'T work when we tried them for ten years, and even the government admitted that. So why would they work now? Fairy dust? Wishes?

[Stevetemp]

 

Originally Posted by newholland

what's infuriating to me is that you could make the same argument about ANYTHING '' oh-- he's so hot and smart.. but he rides a motorcycle/rides a bike/wears jeans/has x job..etc.'

maybe i'm a gadfly-- but at the same time-- {censored}ing a. what happened last week sucks, and if everybody's gonna agree on that, which they kinda do-- i kinda see that we're ALL gonna need to figure out what to do, and probably wring hands and pull hair for a while to get to any agreement, otherwise we're just giving up on the country. if we grow up and DISCUSS it like adults.. mebbe there's a way out that keeps both gun owners happy and people safe? loaded terms like 'need' are just the first impediment to a discussion about it- from the mouths of both sides. {censored} 'aisles'.. some problems are bigger than that. actually.. most are.

 

We know it sucks dude. There's not a person alive...that's not a full-on psychopath...that isn't broken-hearted about it. Firstly, we have to realize that these things have ALWAYS happened. Put this in your search engine "largest mass-killing at school in history". No guns used, and 80 years ago. So this has happened before and will happen again.

I also think we all agree it needs mitigated. But not by challenging law abiding citizens for their weapons. We need to challenge them to be responsible! The children were killed because the mom not only purchased weapons for a psychopath, but had regular practices with them. Why should Abstract be denied his right to this device because the other person {censored}ed it up? Some people are tired of the automobile analogy, they keep using words like "designed" to sustain their opinion on the matter, but it's not about design, it's about results. Because one person (actually more like millions) is irresponsible with the auto, we don't take that privilege away from everyone. Right?

Happy New Gun Day Abstract!

[Stevetemp]

 

Originally Posted by NinjaRaf

I understand where youre coming from. Ive seen that {censored} all over the place, too. I cant speak for NH on it, because Ive never spoken to him about his feelings on guns, but hes stated some things here. Personally, I dont give a {censored}. Let people own what they want. {censored}, Ive shot AR15s with these butts that bounce back and sort of make the gun full auto, but not really haha. That {censored} is WAY too much fun for me to be anti-gun lol...especially since I intend to buy a few high powered rifles with 20 rd mags at some point in the future. My best friends GF thinks its weird for people to own guns, and her and I and him have had arguments about it.

I agree that the anti-gun arguments are circular and go nowhere. There will be no point in making anti-gun laws because people who are going to commit crimes with guns will find a way to illegally obtain them, regardless of the laws in place.

Im just arguing here because I like Dan quite a bit, and he was getting attacked from all sides for something that wasnt really anything...just people misreading or reading too much into what he asked. I understand WHY people are doing that based on everything thats been happening, but I didnt feel like he was doing that, and I didnt think he deserved some of the words that some people were throwing around, so .

My reasoning for wanting some HPRs with multi rd mags is just because its fun. I like to shoot more than load a gun. If I could buy a 50 rd mag, Id get one just because its fun . I have no need for that {censored}.

Also, the chick in those pics is SUPER {censored}ing cute....goddamn!!

 

Yes...but what do you NEED that for?

[NinjaRaf]

 

Originally Posted by Stevetemp

Yes...but what do you NEED that for?

 

 

Originally Posted by NinjaRaf

I understand where youre coming from. Ive seen that {censored} all over the place, too. I cant speak for NH on it, because Ive never spoken to him about his feelings on guns, but hes stated some things here. Personally, I dont give a {censored}. Let people own what they want. {censored}, Ive shot AR15s with these butts that bounce back and sort of make the gun full auto, but not really haha. That {censored} is WAY too much fun for me to be anti-gun lol...especially since I intend to buy a few high powered rifles with 20 rd mags at some point in the future. My best friends GF thinks its weird for people to own guns, and her and I and him have had arguments about it.

I agree that the anti-gun arguments are circular and go nowhere. There will be no point in making anti-gun laws because people who are going to commit crimes with guns will find a way to illegally obtain them, regardless of the laws in place.

Im just arguing here because I like Dan quite a bit, and he was getting attacked from all sides for something that wasnt really anything...just people misreading or reading too much into what he asked. I understand WHY people are doing that based on everything thats been happening, but I didnt feel like he was doing that, and I didnt think he deserved some of the words that some people were throwing around, so .

My reasoning for wanting some HPRs with multi rd mags is just because its fun. I like to shoot more than load a gun. If I could buy a 50 rd mag, Id get one just because its fun . I have no need for that {censored}.

Also, the chick in those pics is SUPER {censored}ing cute....goddamn!!

 

[newholland]

 

Originally Posted by larryguitar

"Loaded terms like 'need'..." And there goes any chance of your being reasonable. You just don't get it.

But that's OK, you live in Canadia anyway...

 

.

actually, no i don't-- i live in maryland. but whatever, lar- best o' luck with your shooting, and your interpersonal skills.

and steve- i think folks like mesa and raf have a window into my motivations you might not. we've actually exchanged words like rational humans.. you, i can't say that about.

jesus gents, it's just like {censored}ing congress in here. freakin don quixote windmill attack..

[Ron Burgandy]

 

Originally Posted by newholland

.

actually, no i don't-- i live in maryland. but whatever, lar- best o' luck with your shooting, and your interpersonal skills.

and steve- i think folks like mesa and raf have a window into my motivations you might not. we've actually exchanged words like rational humans.. you, i can't say that about.

jesus gents, it's just like {censored}ing congress in here. freakin don quixote windmill attack..

 

Larry is getting mad in all of the gun threads. If you are pro NRA then you're ok, but if you even ask him a question he blows up with insults and rhetoric. He told me I just don't get it so he was leaving. I asked him a question because I said I didn't get it.

[Stevetemp]

 

Originally Posted by newholland

.

actually, no i don't-- i live in maryland. but whatever, lar- best o' luck with your shooting, and your interpersonal skills.

and steve- i think folks like mesa and raf have a window into my motivations you might not. we've actually exchanged words like rational humans.. you, i can't say that about.

jesus gents, it's just like {censored}ing congress in here. freakin don quixote windmill attack..

 

Hey...all I can do is read your words on the screen. If there is some secret motivations, I apologize for not knowing them.

I'm also sorry for thinking it was a silly question, full of ulterior motives...from here. I do not see any NEED for people to have a lot of things. But what's it to me? Many gun owners have it as a hobby, just the same as our music. Seems a very simple concept to me.

Happy New Gun Day Abstract!

[newholland]

 

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

Larry is getting mad in all of the gun threads. If you are pro NRA then you're ok, but if you even ask him a question he blows up with insults and rhetoric. He told me I just don't get it so he was leaving. I asked him a question because I said I didn't get it.

 

gotcha. dave, these're weird times, i tell ya.

in the meantime, abstract-- i apologize for the derailment due to trying to make a joke in a time of major political upheaval regarding guns on a guitar forum full of conservative political analysts seeking a throw down.. sheesh-- wasn't intending on making you into any sort of object lesson for christs sake- although i was kinda dishing a mini-plate of poop regarding 'needing' your new rifle- in the same way raf was sayin- but not looking for a battle, 'cause i got no beef with you.

[nerol1st]

 

Originally Posted by newholland

sure. thing is, it's not the same. i want explosives because i can use explosives. i want snuff films 'cause i use snuff films. i want LSD because i use LSD. i want a russian sex slave because i use russian sex slaves. der. the existence of things doesn't mean you can have them because want to use them.

 

Explosives: illegal

Snuff films: illegal

LSD: illegal

Russian sex slave (aka human sex trafficking): illegal

Modding a gun to go full auto: illegal

So no, you can't have that {censored} because you want it.

[newholland]

 

Originally Posted by nerol1st

Explosives: illegal

Snuff films: illegal

LSD: illegal

Russian sex slave (aka human sex trafficking): illegal

Modding a gun to go full auto: illegal

So no, you can't have that {censored} because you want it.

 

precisely the point. and if you don't think that the potential for a widespread ban on guns is in the air, you're missing the point for the second time. it's not my decision- but {censored} is gonna happen and when asked 'why do you want these things'-- 'i want it 'cause i want it' isn't gonna get anyone traction- it just makes people sound like spoiled children.

therein likes the real

[Mesa4x12er2]

 

Originally Posted by newholland

precisely the point. and if you don't think that the potential for a widespread ban on guns is in the air, you're missing the point for the second time. it's not my decision- but {censored} is gonna happen and when asked 'why do you want these things'-- 'i want it 'cause i want it' isn't gonna get anyone traction- it just makes people sound like spoiled children.

therein likes the real

 

It's almost as bad as asking people why we shouldn't have these rifles and them saying because we don't need them. Something like that amirite? Not to mention the fact that the majority of them know nothing about these guns except what they've seen on the news which is currently trying to scare the {censored} out of people and use buzzwords and confusing {censored} that makes it so a noob that knows nothing will still know nothing in the end except that they are bad and scary. Right?

[larryguitar]

 

Originally Posted by Ron Burgandy

Larry is getting mad in all of the gun threads. If you are pro NRA then you're ok, but if you even ask him a question he blows up with insults and rhetoric. He told me I just don't get it so he was leaving. I asked him a question because I said I didn't get it.

 

Mad? I suppose. But arguing something of vital importance TO ME with seriously uninformed people gets me that way.

Address the alcohol vs. guns point. Address the fact that mag limits and semi-auto restrictions didn't work when we ACTUALLY DID THEM FOR 10 YEARS. Address some substantive points, rather than 'why do you need that' and such, and I'll be a bit more civil. But the grabbers never do, since they can't.

So again-alcohol is going to 'kill' more people this year than guns will. It serves no purpose whatsoever; nobody 'needs' it. Talk just as seriously about banning that, and I'll take you seriously.

Stop going on about how mag limits will somehow make anyone safer when I've stated my mag changes take .09 of a second-address that and I'll take you seriously.

Shoot the {censored} with some provocative comments about something that (to me, and many others) is a topic of vital-essential-importance, and you'll get snark back.

[newholland]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

It's almost as bad as asking people why we shouldn't have these rifles and them saying because we don't need them. Something like that amirite? Not to mention the fact that the majority of them know nothing about these guns except what they've seen on the news which is currently trying to scare the {censored} out of people and use buzzwords and confusing {censored} that makes it so a noob that knows nothing will still know nothing in the end except that they are bad and scary. Right?

 

yep, but the main difference is ASKING why there's a percieved need isn't telling anybody what they can't do- it's parsing out motivation. i've already stated i don't see a need for 'em personally, and i won't apologize for not believing in military weapons for civilians. but i'm certainly not perpetuating any 'myth' that a one second google search doesn't confirm- people buy saigas cause they're easy conversions, and you'd be pretty bummed to do such a thing and crank off the standard 10 clip in 2 seconds.

that's just a reality, and denying it isn't doing anything either.

larry made a good point earlier, saying that tobacco and alcohol fall under the same loose heading. true enough-- they're 'dangerous', and as such, ought to be talked about in the same way-- if it'll kill you or others.. well.. it's worth a conversation at least.

is there a tipping point where irresponsible gun ownership outweighs responsible gun ownership? i hope to not find out. but i also hope i'm not coming across like i'm being the token anti gun liberal, 'cause i'm certainly not trying to. if that's the perception, i'm glad to be the sacrificial lamb to start the conversation-- but i'll say it ain't so, despite having an opinion in the matter.