Zager (yes, this post is different)

[TCBronson]

 

Thanks for the Samick info. It seems like Samick and Cort make almost every Indonesian and Chinese guitar on the market. I think many people don't realize that most of the guitar companies outsource their inexpensive guitar manufacturing to companies like Samick and Cort.

 

 

True, so what brands and or models are popular and do any of them retail for more than $200. Just curious.

[Hudman]

 

True, so what brands and or models are popular and do any of them retail for more than $200. Just curious.

 

 

Zager, Sigma, Ibanez, Alvarez, Washburn, Epiphone, Epiphone Masterbilt, Cort, Samick, Hohner, Parkwood, Fender, Silver Creek, Blueridge, Johnson Carolina, Guild GAD, Dean and others.

 

Most of the solid top, laminate side and back guitars range between $150 and $300 (Zager excluded).

 

The all solid wood guitars range between $250 and $1000 + (depending on the model).

[TCBronson]

 

Zager, Sigma, Ibanez, Alvarez, Washburn, Epiphone, Epiphone Masterbilt, Cort, Samick, Hohner, Parkwood, Fender, Silver Creek, Blueridge, Johnson Carolina, Guild GAD, Dean and others. Most of the solid top, laminate side and back guitars range between $150 and $300 (Zager excluded). The all solid wood guitars range between $250 and $1000 + (depending on the model).

 

 

Just for fun I went to Musicians friend and looked through the list of guitars they sell. Many of them do not mention solid back and sides so I am not sure if that means they are or are not. However, as you go up in price the ads did mention all solid wood.

 

Not sure about this model: Washburn D10SDL, solid spruce top, rosewood sides and back. Retail $749, their price $449. Would this be a good apples to apples comparison to the ZAD 50. Also, looked at a Blueridge BR70.

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Washburn-?sku=516860

[Hudman]

 

Just for fun I went to Musicians friend and looked through the list of guitars they sell. Many of them do not mention solid back and sides so I am not sure if that means they are or are not. However, as you go up in price the ads did mention all solid wood. Not sure about this model: Washburn D10SDL, solid spruce top, rosewood sides and back. Retail $749, their price $449. Would this be a good apples to apples comparison to the ZAD 50. Also, looked at a Blueridge BR70. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Washburn-?sku=516860

 

 

I would bet they are very similar.

 

The Washburn comes with a hardshell case and free shipping at $449. Hardshell cases usually run about $75.

 

The Zager ZAD 50 is $495 + $45 for shipping and does not include a case. Add a similar case and you are sitting around $615.

 

Here's an example of a great deal on an all solid wood guitar that comes with a "free gift" (hardshell case).

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Silver-Creek-D160-Solid-SpruceMahogany-Dreadnought-Acoustic-Guitar-?sku=512725

 

I would recommend this $299 Washburn over the one you found:

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Washburn-D30S-Acoustic-Guitar?sku=515929

[TCBronson]

 

I would bet they are very similar. The Washburn comes with a hardshell case and free shipping at $449. Hardshell cases usually run about $75. The Zager ZAD 50 is $495 + $45 for shipping and does not include a case. Add a similar case and you are sitting around $615. Here's an example of a great deal on an all solid wood guitar that comes with a "free gift" (hardshell case). http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Silver-Creek-D160-Solid-SpruceMahogany-Dreadnought-Acoustic-Guitar-?sku=512725

 

 

That is a great deal for an all solid wood guitar. It has been my experience that just because a guitar is all solid wood that it may not be a better guitar. Especially when it comes to sound. I played many high end Martins, Taylors, etc that I did not think sounded as good as my ZAD 80. But when it comes to sound, that's all subjective.

[Hudman]

That is a great deal for an all solid wood guitar. It has been my experience that just because a guitar is all solid wood that it may not be a better guitar. Especially when it comes to sound. I played many high end Martins, Taylors, etc that I did not think sounded as good as my ZAD 80. But when it comes to sound, that's all subjective.

 

I agree that tone and playability are subjective (I don't think the price of set up work is subjective ).

 

Those Silver Creek guitars get good reviews and Musicians Friend has a good return policy.

[TCBronson]

I agree that tone and playability are subjective (I don't think the price of set up work is subjective ). Those Silver Creek guitars get good reviews and Musicians Friend has a good return policy.

 

 

I am going to leave the price of a set up work comment alone,

 

But the review comment I think we both would agree that you can't trust all reviews, other wise the Zager reviews would count for something, especially when you read and see so many positive comments at multiple sites. They all can't be shills, or lies.

[Hudman]

 

I am going to leave the price of a set up work comment alone, however we could add $51 to the Washburn price $449 for a even $500 But the review comment I think we both would agree that you can't trust all reviews, other wise the Zager reviews would count for something, especially when you read and see so many positive comments at multiple sites. They all can't be shills, or lies.

 

 

Interesting.

 

You were willing to give Zager a try based on reviews. Why are you discounting the reviews of other guitars?

[TCBronson]

 

Interesting. You were willing to give Zager a try based on reviews. Why are you discounting the reviews of other guitars?

 

 

Based on comments made here from my original, original post #1, I would categorize all reviews the same on all products. You have different types of people leaving all types of reviews with different motives.

[Hudman]

Based on comments made here from my original, original post #1, I would categorize all reviews the same on all products. You have different types of people leaving all types of reviews with different motives.

 

The dreaded "Silver Creek" review scam.

 

It is just a matter of time before they modify them and sell them on Ebay.

[TCBronson]

The dreaded "Silver Creek" review scam. It is just a matter of time before they modify them and sell them on Ebay.

 

 

Or the Home Shopping Network:lol:

[Maximum]

Well, this thread didn't go as I had hoped. I think there are decent people acting in good faith on both sides of this argument, but for some reason the topic is poison. If I knew of a way to end a thread I started, I would.

 

While my offer remains open, I think I am going to otherwise quietly withdraw.

[Hudman]

 

Well, this thread didn't go as I had hoped. I think there are decent people acting in good faith on both sides of this argument, but for some reason the topic is poison. If I knew of a way to end a thread I started, I would. While my offer remains open, I think I am going to otherwise quietly withdraw.

 

 

The topic isn't poison, its fun if you keep it in perspective.

 

It's impossible to engage in a constructive debate about Zager guitars with Zager owners. They believe in Denny. They believe "String Science" is an actual Zager invention worthy of a hefty price tag.

 

Zager is a hot topic here every few months. New posters chime in and fight hard with anyone that questions Zager's methods. Those posters NEVER stick around. They disappear almost as suddenly as they appear. TC may prove to be the exception to the rule.

 

In comparison, I love Larrivee guitars. However, I don't get upset when people say anything negative about them. I don't understand why Zager owners get so wound up over what people think about Denny Zager. I don't know why they take it personal. It's actually funny.

[TCBronson]

 

The topic isn't poison, its fun if you keep it in perspective. It's impossible to engage in a constructive debate about Zager guitars with Zager owners. They believe in Denny. They believe "String Science" is an actual Zager invention worthy of a hefty price tag. Zager is a hot topic here every few months. New posters chime in and fight hard with anyone that questions Zager's methods. Those posters NEVER stick around. They disappear almost as suddenly as they appear. TC may prove to be the exception to the rule. In comparison, I love Larrivee guitars. However, I don't get upset when people say anything negative about them. I don't understand why Zager owners get so wound up over what people think about Denny Zager. I don't know why they take it personal. It's actually funny.

 

 

Well, I for one as a Zager owner thought we had a constructive debate about Zager guitars going on right here!

 

The reason new posters NEVER stick around is because of the way they are treated here, like second class citizens. Every negative comment made about anything that has to do with Zager is an indirect insult to anybody that owns or is thinking about buying a Zager guitar. The infrance is that anybody that does buy a Zager guitar is paying too much for the guitar and therefor must be an idiot for doing so. Whether you want to believe it or not, that's why they take it personaly and that's why it not funny!

 

As for Max, sorry you did not have the response you wanted with someone that would evaluate your guitar and give an honest review here about the so called deceptive advertising. I don't blame you if you don't come back and tell us about your buying experience and what you ended up with. I would like to know what you end up doing if you want to PM me later.

Other wise, good luck with whatever you do.

[Hudman]

 

Well, I for one as a Zager owner thought we had a constructive debate about Zager guitars going on right here! The reason new posters NEVER stick around is because of the way they are treated here, like second class citizens. Every negative comment made about anything that has to do with Zager is an indirect insult to anybody that owns or is thinking about buying a Zager guitar. The infrance is that anybody that does buy a Zager guitar is paying too much for the guitar and therfore must be an idiot for doing so. Whether you want to believe it or not, that's why they take it personaly and that's why it not funny! As for Max, sorry you did not have the response you wanted with someone that would evaluate your guitar and give an honest review here about the so called deceptive advertising. I don't blame you if you don't come back and tell us about your buying experience and what you ended up with. I would like to know what you end up doing if you want to PM me later. Other wise, good luck with whatever you do.

 

 

You are hilarious.

 

No one called Zager owners idiots for buying Zagers. I never implied that in any my posts. My goal is to make sure new guitar buyers know they can have ANY guitar set up to play better. I also think they should have their guitar set up specially for them rather than how Denny likes his.

 

Seriously, I don't think you have learned a single thing since arriving here. I am beginning to doubt that you actually read the posts you respond to.

[threecar]

I got to agree with Hudman. When I first started looking in here I had just bought my first git,a Takamine.The poodle jousting stuff was being posted here.The fact that some thought Taks were best used for jousting weapons I thought was funnier than hell.Still do, not to mention my other guitar is a Fender. I don't take offence to the fact that everybody likes what they like. My gits work for me. That's all that matters.

[Hudman]

I got to agree with Hudman. When I first started looking in here I had just bought my first git,a Takamine.The poodle jousting stuff was being posted here.The fact that some thought Taks were best used for jousting weapons I thought was funnier than hell.Still do, not to mention my other guitar is a Fender. I don't take offence to the fact that everybody likes what they like. My gits work for me. That's all that matters.

 

I appreciate that. The poodle jousting and Elixir stuff is all in good fun (I never poodle joust, but I do use Elixirs - ). Those Takemine guitars are popular with many big name artists (especially country artists).

 

I try not to knock any guitar brands. I never knocked Zager guitars. My problem isn't with the guitars. It's with the deceptive sales tactics.

 

I never heard of Larrivee guitars before finding this forum. Kwak turned me on to them. I did some research and bought one without ever playing one. That's when I realized there were some solid posters here with very good advice. I learned a lot of great information and made some good friends in the process.

[TCBronson]

 

You are hilarious. No one called Zager owners idiots for buying Zagers. I never implied that in any my posts. My goal is to make sure new guitar buyers know they can have ANY guitar set up to play better. I also think they should have their guitar set up specially for them rather than how Denny likes his. Seriously, I don't think you have learned a single thing since arriving here. I am beginning to doubt that you actually read the posts you respond to.

 

 

So why aren't there any Zager owners consistantly or occasionally contributing to this forum? Because you ran them ALL off? If you did, then this is the byproduct of your goal to educate everyone about set ups. And when you point out that they spent too much for their set up, you what, insult them.

[Harmonycat]

 

The topic isn't poison, its fun if you keep it in perspective. In comparison, I love Larrivee guitars. However, I don't get upset when people say anything negative about them. I don't understand why Zager owners get so wound up over what people think about Denny Zager. I don't know why they take it personal. It's actually funny.

 

 

There in lies the rub.

 

The defensive action of one who has been fleeced, is different than that of one who is objective. The world is full of subjective people who are incapable of not taking anything personally.

 

I used the word "provocked". Provocked to Razor Sharp Sarcastic End.

 

Provocked by the waste of time, any number of People will inflict upon others to justify the purchase of a clearly inferior product. There is a saying that also deals with sheep..."You cannot dress up mutton to pass it off as lamb."

Too many threads dealing with defensive dribble.

 

Look at an Aria AD-80, a Masterbilt 500 series, a Blueridge, a Washburn Timbercraft, a Guild Gad, or a Recording King, and put it beside the much discussed and touted Zager truss up, and you will understand that there is not a single guitar manufactured in the Samick plant of Indonesia that holds a candle to anything built in the Grand Rewards Factory in China.

 

I love Larrivees too and I have seen them bashed in any number of threads by Martin loyalists. I don't get defensive about that either. I love Martins too.

 

If you love your Zager...so be it. It is at best, an overdressed Indonesian import. There are much better imports for the same money. Get used to that. You still have decent guitar to play.

 

This is not Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and the need of some to have the recognition of their peers in order to find happiness and acceptance.

 

This is a guitar forum....thats all...say "I like my guitar or I love my guitar" and move on regardless of what anyone else thinks of it.

 

Zagerist Zealots open your own forum, discuss and enjoy it together. When you figure out that they are not the be all and end all, come and visit and learn about other guitars.

 

Yeah Hud...it is all pretty funny to me....nothing personal.

[Hudman]

 

So why aren't there any Zager owners consistantly or occasionally contributing to this forum? Because you ran them ALL off? If you did, then this is the byproduct of your goal to educate everyone about set ups. And when you point out that they spent too much for their set up, you what, insult them.

 

 

I ran them all off? Am I a pure evil being on a mission to keep Zagerites off the forum?

 

Or, could it be that most of the Zagerites were not legitimate posters. They were here to promote the revolutionary EZ Play invention featuring String Science on "Martin DM" guitars (that never displays an actual headstock photo that shows the Sigma name).

 

It sounds like you are not as confident about your buying decision as you claim, if you were you would stop trying to convince yourself and everyone else that Zager guitars are a great value.

[Hudman]

 

There in lies the rub. The defensive action of one who has been fleeced, is different than that of one who is objective. The world is full of subjective people who are incapable of not taking anything personally. I used the word "provocked". Provocked to Razor Sharp Sarcastic End. Provocked by the waste of time, any number of People will inflict upon others to justify the purchase of a clearly inferior product. There is a saying that also deals with sheep..."You cannot dress up mutton to pass it off as lamb." Too many threads dealing with defensive dribble. Look at an Aria AD-80, a Masterbilt 500 series, a Blueridge, a Washburn Timbercraft, a Guild Gad, or a Recording King, and put it beside the much discussed and touted Zager truss up, and you will understand that there is not a single guitar manufactured in the Samick plant of Indonesia that holds a candle to anything built in the Grand Rewards Factory in China. I love Larrivees to and I have seen them bashed in any number of threads by Martin loyalists. I don't get defensive about that either. I love Martins too. If you love your Zager...so be it. It is at best, an overdressed Indonesian import. There are much better importsfor the same money. Get used to that. This is not Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and the need of some to have the recognition of their peers in order to find happiness and acceptance. This is a guitar forum....thats all...say "I like my guitar or I love my guitar" and move on regardless of what anyone else thinks of it. Zagerist Zealots open your own forum, discuss and enjoy it together. When you figure out that they are not the be all and end all, come and visit and learn about other guitars. Yeah Hud...it is all pretty funny to me....nothing personal.

 

 

Great points.

 

I told TC countless times that I was glad he was happy with his guitar. I don't know why he is obsessed with changing my mind.

[TCBronson]

 

I ran them all off? Am I a pure evil being on a mission to keep Zagerites off the forum? Or, could it be that most of the Zagerites were not legitimate posters. They were here to promote the revolutionary EZ Play invention featuring String Science on "Martin DM" guitars (that never displays an actual headstock photo that shows the Sigma name). It sounds like you are not as confident about your buying decision as you claim, if you were you would stop trying to convince yourself and everyone else that Zager guitars are a great value.

 

 

You and your conspiracy theories, now you are the one that is hilarious!

 

 

And, so much for your statement "I'm done discussing guitars with you"

I wish you had kept your word on that one!

[Hudman]

You and your conspiracy theories, now you are the one that is hilarious! And, so much for your statement "I'm done discussing guitars with you" I wish you had kept your word on that one!

 

Put me on your ignore list or don't respond to me.

 

Although, that would conflict with your motives for posting here.

 

Selling Zagers is serious work.

[Broadus]

Well, this thread didn't go as I had hoped. I think there are decent people acting in good faith on both sides of this argument, but for some reason the topic is poison. If I knew of a way to end a thread I started, I would. While my offer remains open, I think I am going to otherwise quietly withdraw.

 

Max,

 

I still want to hear your take on the Zager. It would be great if you could take it to a store and compare it to particular, less expensive models that perhaps Hud could suggest (not brands, but models, and Hud, if you've already suggested models or someone else has, my apologies--it's late and my mind in locked in a perpetual senior moment).

 

But really, it does all come down to Zager's marketing for me. I have a huge problem with it, like the sites that claim they have the secret to consistently hit 375-yard drives with their patented, super-secret golf swing, and it can be yours for $89, money back guarantee. And my swing's so rottenly inconsistent, it's been tempting to bite. With so many good offerings in the way of guitars, I'm really not interested in Zager. Now, if you want to talk about a Godin-family acoustic, that's another thing. This it not to denigrate any buyer; it's just where I am personally. I'm still interested in honest reviews, whether I agree with the result or not.

 

Oh, and guys (and gals?) who play Zagers--stick around. There's lots more about acoustics to discuss than the particular gits we play.

 

Hope everyone has a good night. Gotta get some sleep.

 

Best,

Bill

[TCBronson]

Put me on your ignore list or don't respond to me. Although, that would conflict with your motives for posting here. Selling Zagers is serious work.

 

 

I'll make you a deal, I won't respond to you if you won't respond to any future Zager posts.