Members FunkaGuitar Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 I recognize that picking this topic as my first post might be foolhardy, but I am in an unusual position to make an unbiased, possibly helpful, offer/proposal/request, and my timing pretty much requires that I jump in right now.First, my story: I have a late 1980's Goya/Martin (made in Korea), and a 10-year old La Patrie Etude. I have been playing for years, though I appear to be permanently stuck in that intermediate skill level where talentless non-dilligent folks like myself seem to plateau. Anyhow, I wanted to upgrade my steel string, and started looking around, testing some guitars in shops, etc.I am a newbie to this site. And though I have been playing for a while, I am certainly a newbie when it comes to assessing guitars - materials, quality, value. Late Thursday night, with my fingers in pain from pushing on my steel strings, I looked around on the internet and stumbled across a Zager on ebay.I had never heard of Zagers, but intrigued by the easy-play, no-pain notion, I read Zager's site (in detail), and read consumer reviews on this site as well as on some others. Almost all the Zager owners seemed thrilled. I read some reviews that verified that his money-back guaranty really is honored. Feeling like I had done my diligence, I ordered one (not the modified Martin, a Zager-branded Zager, which is supposedly better). Yes, I bought into the hype.Friday, I looked into this discussion forum and, for the first time, saw a Zager thread. Wow. . . . You guys just about had me in tears.I had not been a member, and had not previously searched within the threads, just the reviews. Never had really occurred to me to look within the discussions, as I was not a regular reader.My guitar is currently in transit to me. I am not capable of having formed a bias yet, since I am both (a) a Zager owner, and (b) someone who has never played a Zager. I understand both sides of the argument, and don't need them rehashed. Both sides of this argument are plausible to me.So . . . instead of taking up a collection to buy a Zager and review it, as I see has been suggested, I have the following idea/offer/request: Does any one of the known, respected, knowledgeable, anti-Zager, yet not-having-personally (or recently) inspected-one, members of this forum live in Brooklyn? I would be happy to bring over my brand new Zager, when I get it, for a review that would benefit both the HCAG community and me, by determining whether it was worth the $1600 I spent on it -- or whether I should put that money-back guaranty to the test. (Just kidding about the price: $495 + case + shipping came to 665). Let me know. I expect to have it in the next couple of days.(Parts of Manhattan & Queens would work too, depending on how hard they are for me to get to). :poke::poke::poke::poke::poke::poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TCBronson Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 First, I feel like a chump for ordering the Z***r. Now I feel dumb for not noticing the smiley. This place is murder on the ego. Btw, I think "fanboy" has now entered my vocabulary. I hope it's not trademarked. OK, I waited as long as I could. In my opinion the only reason you feel like a chump for ordering your Zager is because of a half a dozen or so ANTI Zager folks here at this forum that think that their mission in life is to warn all newby's like yourself not to buy Zager guitars. They may say that they never said anything bad about the guitar itself. But every comment they do make is a negative comment that relates back to the recomendation to not buy a Zager guitar. The sad fact is 99% of the ANTI Zager folks here have never seen, inspected or played a ZAD 50 or 80 and they will tell you they don't need to see the modifications or the quality of the modifications or to hear and play one to pass judgement. My advice is take your new guitar to several music stores and compare it in person with any other guitar you might like. Do not peel off the pick guard protector and if you decide to send it back do so because you found a guitar you liked better. Not because a few folks here made you feel bad about your buying decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhythmdoctor Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 Welcome Max! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffmeister Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 if you decide to send it back do so because you found a guitar you liked better. Not because a few folks here made you feel bad about your buying decision. +1 I had a similar experience here a couple years ago with Elixir strings. Be your own person, make your own decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C70man Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 If you mean of the Zager, I have not received it yet. If you mean pictures of something else, then I'm not sure I want to know of what. How do you take pictures of the inside? Sorry, I meant to say as soon as you get it. As far as the inside....shine a light in it and zoom in thru the sound hole. You can see the neck joint and some of the other construction of the guitar. Look, if you like the guitar....keep it. I would. If you don't like the Zager inlay, remove it. Its been done before. From what I remember its not the guitar that people don't like, its the cost of it and advertising methods. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Samilyn Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 Welcome to HCAG, Max. Like Bill, I'm looking forward to reading your assessment of the git. And if you like it and decide to keep it, Enjoy! As our friend Krash so eloquently said, "It's all about the music." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Maximum Posted March 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 OK, I waited as long as I could.In my opinion the only reason you feel like a chump for ordering your Zager is because of a half a dozen or so ANTI Zager folks here at this forum that think that their mission in life is to warn all newby's like yourself not to buy Zager guitars. They may say that they never said anything bad about the guitar itself. But every comment they do make is a negative comment that relates back to the recomendation to not buy a Zager guitar. The sad fact is 99% of the ANTI Zager folks here have never seen, inspected or played a ZAD 50 or 80 and they will tell you they don't need to see the modifications or the quality of the modifications or to hear and play one to pass judgement.My advice is take your new guitar to several music stores and compare it in person with any other guitar you might like. Do not peel off the pick guard protector and if you decide to send it back do so because you found a guitar you liked better. Not because a few folks here made you feel bad about your buying decision. TC: I do intend to make my own decision about it. I agree with your assessment of the situation, and with your advice. Many intemperate things have been said, and for some people this has clearly become an emotional issue. But for me, I really have no dog in this fight, and am wondering about my not-yet-received purchase. And while I am not immune to peer pressure, I do intend to make my own decision. However, I also believe there is a role for expertise. The main contention of the anti-Zagerites is that I am effectively buying a $300 guitar plus a $50 setup for $600 (or whatever the price discrepancy is). If I had bought a diamond I liked from a jeweler, and then heard a bunch of gem mavens saying that particular jeweler is known for overcharging and misleading marketing, I would take it to an expert *not* to ask "is this pretty", but to ask "am I getting what I paid for." It is entirely possible for me to (1) like the guitar, AND (2) have overpaid. Also, there have been some assertions that some of the modifications are in fact harmful or poorly done, such as how the frets are filed and whether the bracing is harmed. And I'm the guy who didn't even know that filing frets was something that people do in the first place, much less knowing how to detect a good or bad filing job. Maybe someone who really understands guitars could point out issues to me that I wouldn't notice for months. Or could direct me to a brand/model that is identical (except for the setup) at half the price. Or whatever -- my whole point is that I just don't know. No guitar store could be objective, given that none of them sell the brand. At the same time, my idea would somewhat resolve your other point -- that many of the Zager critics haven't had a chance to directly inspect one (especially regarding the Zager-brand-Zagers, that are purportedly not just modified Sigmas). Maybe they would say "holy cow, I didn't realize these things are built to such high quality specs. This baby should be going for $900." Or maybe not. But certainly this forum as a whole would be better informed if one of the experts who is known not to be a pro-Zager partisan could post a fresh first-hand review. With all that information in hand, I could make an informed decision -- still my own decision, but an informed one. And maybe make this corner of the world just a little bit of a better place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 ........But every comment they do make is a negative comment that relates back to the recomendation to not buy a Zager guitar. You really have not read the posts and understood the meanings, apparently because you are too blind or dead set against seeing what some of us are saying. The intent is not, nor has it been, to dissuade someone from buying a Zager, rather, to not be taken in by the misrepresentation, misinformation and outright dishonesty. In other words, go into this with your eyes wide open, understanding what your are buying. Again, the majority of us could care less what brand guitar someone decides to buy as long as they have knowledge of what that guitar really is. Some guitar brands do actually get slammed, unlike Zager. Fender acoustics and Esteban come to mind. So, you really need to step back and truly understand the guitars are not what is under contention, it's the hype. How many more times does that have to be explained? The sad fact is 99% of the ANTI Zager folks here have never seen, inspected or played a ZAD 50 or 80 and they will tell you they don't need to see the modifications or the quality of the modifications or to hear and play one to pass judgement. We don't have to have seen, inspected or played a Zager to understand the feasability of the modifications claimed, let alone the economic factors involved in post production modifications, some of which are, to all intents and purposes, impossible to perform in situ. I would suggest to you as well to get a good light and mirror and inspect the interior of you guitar and determine just how you can precisely and cleanly scallop the braces. I'd also like to have you look at the nut and explain to me how you can, without removing it as well as the strings, and re cut the slots to a wider distance without leaving the old slots or how they could economically be filled to perfectly match the color and finish of the rest of the nut. ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bsman Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 Must buy Zager. Zager good. Review Zager. All 10s. All hail Zager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Fred Fartboski Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 First, I feel like a chump for ordering the Z***r. No reason to feel bad. Zager will refund your purchase price and shipping if you're not 100% satisfied. So you might as well check it out and compare it to some other guitars in it's price range before deciding whether or not to send it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TCBronson Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 I am afraid that If I say anything it's going to come out arguementative. It's bad enough Dak has me going through my wifes makeup drawer to find a dad gum mirror so that I can look inside my guitar and not know what the heck I am looking at but a bunch of pretty wood! Max, I'm glad you see both sides and will make up your own mind with out peer pressure. I too am anxious to hear about what you find out good or bad! I also can appreciate an experienced opinion on things I don't know or understand about guitars. That's one of the reasons I came here to this forum. But I too experienced the the "oh I feel like a chump" and found myself second guessing my purchase decision because of the negative comments about Zager advertising, sales hype and claims, over priced set ups, which all relate to what? The guitars. I have definitely made some folks here mad and I have been called a Troll, Shill, a liar, and some 4 letter words that I will respectfull not mention. I even got one member, (Hudman) so mad he won't even talk to me anymore. That part I do regret for that was never my intention. Hudman's a family man with kids so am I, I've got two girls and I bet we could share some horror stories about raising kids. But that would be off topic. My goal at this forum was to contribute something, positve, I started the "Other hobbies besides music and guitars" thread. Very interesting to me to see what we all have in common. If I could get Dak amd Hudman together with some other folks and have them look at my guitar, then maybe we could find some common ground. Max, your idea is a good one...so good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Maximum Posted March 4, 2008 Author Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 I am afraid that If I say anything it's going to come out arguementative. It's bad enough Dak has me going through my wifes makeup drawer to find a dad gum mirror so that I can look inside my guitar and not know what the heck I am looking at but a bunch of pretty wood! Max, I'm glad you see both sides and will make up your own mind with out peer pressure. I too am anxious to hear about what you find out good or bad! I also can appreciate an experienced opinion on things I don't know or understand about guitars. That's one of the reasons I came here to this forum. But I too experienced the the "oh I feel like a chump" and found myself second guessing my purchase decision because of the negative comments about Zager advertising, sales hype and claims, over priced set ups, which all relate to what? The guitars. I have definitely made some folks here mad and I have been called a Troll, Shill, a liar, and some 4 letter words that I will respectfull not mention. I even got one member, (Hudman) so mad he won't even talk to me anymore. That part I do regret for that was never my intention. Hudman's a family man with kids so am I, I've got two girls and I bet we could share some horror stories about raising kids. But that would be off topic. My goal at this forum was to contribute something, positve, I started the "Other hobbies besides music and guitars" thread. Very interesting to me to see what we all have in common. If I could get Dak amd Hudman together with some other folks and have them look at my guitar, then maybe we could find some common ground. Max, your idea is a good one...so good luck! Thanks TC. I actually read a couple of the outacontrol Zager threads in detail. To me, it appeared clear that you are not a shill or troll. You gave a balanced review, and acknowledged the marketing and pricing criticisms that people have. If there were earlier threads where you did something to upset people, then I consider myself lucky to have missed the worst of it. There were also clear-thinking, reasonable people in the "anti" category, who made a convincing case. The few who got shrill were not the convincing ones, as that seemed like emotion talking. I was mostly kidding about the "chump" bit. I definitely feel like I got infomercialled (in fact, it was 2AM when I ordered it, classic infomercial susceptibility hours). But we can't forget that the George Foreman Grill was an infomercial product, and every bit as good as advertised -- and better. ThighMaster is another story. So is Mr. Zager big George, or is he Suzanne Sommers? OK, I've never actually seen a Thighmaster -- but that does not appear to be a prerequisite to have an opinion around here. UPS says it arrives on the 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 If I could get Dak amd Hudman together with some other folks and have them look at my guitar, then maybe we could find some common ground. Max, your idea is a good one...so good luck! We don't need to see a guitar to know how much a set up is worth. You can pay $1000 to have new brake pads installed on your Dodge Stratus. You might love your new brakes. Your car may stop better than ever before. Guess what? I wouldn't have to see your car to tell you that you paid too much money to have brake pads installed. Stop turning it into a Zager quality debate. The problem is with misleading advertising and expensive "string science" (BS set up lingo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TCBronson Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 We don't need to see a guitar to know how much a set up is worth.You can pay $1000 to have new brake pads installed on your Dodge Stratus. You might love your new brakes. Your car may stop better than ever before.Guess what? I wouldn't have to see your car to tell you that you paid too much money to have brake pads installed.Stop turning it into a Zager quality debate. The problem is with misleading advertising and expensive "string science" (BS set up lingo). I am sorry, but I do not know how to seperate the two. Any criticism about misleading advertising, expensive "string science" and BS set up lingo all point toward one thing and one thing only, don't buy a Zager guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted March 4, 2008 Members Share Posted March 4, 2008 I am sorry, but I do not know how to seperate the two. Any criticism about misleading advertising, expensive "string science" and BS set up lingo all point toward, don't but a Zager guitar. No, it points to don't spend too much money, or if you do, spend it knowing you are being overcharged for a setup and that you are buying snake oil over and above what is normally a decent guitar.It's a huge difference.On one side you have a decent guitar that nobody has a problem with.On the other side you have misrepresentation, misinformation and outright dishonesty in sales tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jd-drafter Posted March 5, 2008 Members Share Posted March 5, 2008 i want to try and help clarify the part of this issue that is "scalloped braces" related- first off let me say that i exchanged a few emails with denny junior i think- from what i understand denny sr. no longer does any setups himself. i will need to review my email to clarify that but he is no longer working on the guitars- he's said to be spending more time in the studio. the specific item daklander was referring to was the language that states the guitars are modified/voiced by 'scalloping the braces'- i think daklander's post intended to explain that you can order the guitar with braces already scalloped to your spec's upon construction. the process of scalloping the braces after the guitar is already built is laborious, imprecise, and not generally considered to be cost effective. again i am just trying to put a clarifying spin on this- not put words in his mouth. so the gist of this leads to the idea that the zager's are doing even less that they claim to be doing. technically the braces may be scalloped, i mean the $89.00 rogue 12 string i bought has scalloped braces technically. but were they scalloped by hand after construction to ensure the best possible sound for that individual instrument? not likely. now this concept extends right on to the nut and saddle- they can order guitar's to their spec- so in reality they can order their zager's already zagerized and string scienced- do some basic QC/QA and send the thing out the door- i hope that makes sense- not trying to bash or instigate- just trying to communicate the concept i have seen batted around here and there. so TC- if youget your wifes mirror out you may very well see "scalloped" braces- but were they done by hand or by a mill on an assembly line. is there really a difference? maybe-maybe not- but could one get the impression from the add that denny zager is personally inspecting and setting up and signing the back each guitar he sends out? i got the impression he stopped handling the guitar's quite awhile ago- who knows- best of luck and let's play whatever we have the best we can- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TCBronson Posted March 5, 2008 Members Share Posted March 5, 2008 No, it points to don't spend too much money, or if you do, spend it knowing you are being overcharged for a setup and that you are buying snake oil over and above what is normally a decent guitar.It's a huge difference.On one side you have a decent guitar that nobody has a problem with.On the other side you have misrepresentation, misinformation and outright dishonesty in sales tactics. Well, we're getting closer, I see your point. But what most people do not know, including myself, is what's paying too much and for what specific modifications. If someone looked at a Zager 50 or 80 and varified what modifications were done, if any and the quality of said modifications and how much it would cost to duplicate the modifications and then came up with a figure, then where does the sellers profits come into play. How do you know how much profit a guitar has in it? Can someone pick a different brand of guitar and tell me how much mark up there is in any given guitar and then subtract the set up expense perhaps. Just trying to figure out what paying too much really means on a $495 guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted March 5, 2008 Members Share Posted March 5, 2008 No, it points to don't spend too much money, or if you do, spend it knowing you are being overcharged for a setup and that you are buying snake oil over and above what is normally a decent guitar.It's a huge difference.On one side you have a decent guitar that nobody has a problem with.On the other side you have misrepresentation, misinformation and outright dishonesty in sales tactics. Exactly. I would also add I'm not "anti-Zager". I'm anti-BS. The guitars are nice, but the set up work is expensive and the Zager sales tactics are misleading. I also find it interesting that Zager Jr. claimed that Denny stopped dealing with the "Martin Sigma" (brand does not exist) due to quality issues. If that is the case, why is he still hawking them on Ebay all day, everyday. Further proof that the Zager folks are less than honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted March 5, 2008 Members Share Posted March 5, 2008 Well, we're getting closer, I see your point. But what most people do not know, including myself, is what's paying too much and for what specific modifications. If someone looked at a Zager 50 or 80 and varified what modifications were done, if any and the quality of said modifications and how much it would cost to duplicate the modifications and then came up with a figure, then where does the sellers profits come into play. How do you know how much profit a guitar has in it? Can someone pick a different brand of guitar and tell me how much mark up there is in any given guitar and then subtract the set up expense perhaps. Just trying to figure out what paying too much really means on a $495 guitar. You can buy a guitar equal to your Zager for $200 and have it set up specifically for your playing style and be well under $300. You may be willing to spend $495, but there are people out there that can't afford to spend that kind of money. In addition, I would recommend people buying solid wood guitars if they are looking to spend $495. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TCBronson Posted March 5, 2008 Members Share Posted March 5, 2008 You can buy a guitar equal to your Zager for $200 and have it set up specifically for your playing style and be well under $300.You may be willing to spend $495, but there are people out there that can't afford to spend that kind of money. In addition, I would recommend people buying solid wood guitars if they are looking to spend $495. OK, Hudman, at least we are talking again, thanks! Now here's where I get myself in to trouble. You say you can buy a guitar equal to the Zager, is that based on all guitars coming out of Indonesia factories? Without inspecting a Zager guitar how would anyone be able to put a $200 price on it without looking at it in person. The Zager 50 and 80 are not Sigma guitars, they are supposedly built to Zagers specs. If there is an identical guitar to the Zager, but with a different name on the headstock, then that would help me understand better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted March 5, 2008 Members Share Posted March 5, 2008 All this Zager talk has provoked me...time the Cat was out among the Pigeons.....anybody know who the Pigeons are?:poke: The place is lousy with Pigeons. Time to clean up! All Zager guitars are made in Indonesia at the old Samick Factory. The Serial numbers tell all. The Letters are "SI"....Samick Indonesia. Home of some of the last Sigmas ever made. What is a Guy to do when there are no more Sigmas to call Martins! Home of the Early Millennium 2000-2005 Washburns. Quality issues were so bad here that Washburn switched production to China in 2005. The bodies of those Zager guitars sure do look like overbuilt Washburns.....I have one of those. Makes a great Beater! I owned three at one point....The Indonesians! I sold two and kept one....One out of Three ain't bad...Ya know...that would make kind of catchy tune, wouldn't it. Bet you it would have that Bat out of Hell sound too.:poke: Change a Bridge and Headstock neck and you got yourself a whole new guitar....kinda. Even the Washburns had abalone inlay scripture....Gold paint is so much nicer...don't you agree? And for a few extra bucks you can put a three piece laminate back on instead of a one piece laminate back. A little abalone and a solid cedar top...amazing that three hundred bucks won't even get you a solid back or sides. Denny is it? Dennis the Menace....an appropriate moniker for a Purveyor of Bovine Fertilizer. Bulls and Pigeons...stinking the place up! For the Record....I owned two Sigma Solid tops and have played about ten of them altogether. Funny thing though....none of them sounded anything like a Martin. Must be some kind of Magic that turns these guitars into Iconic Benchmark Instruments, that all others are compared to, all of a sudden. All together now....Zager be thy Name! Defend the honour Denny and forsake all others, when you have been HAD!!! And we all know what that is...... Don't we, Ladies and Gentlemen. Thats a lot of Pigeon Crap!! :poke: I'm here all week folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members babablowfish Posted March 5, 2008 Members Share Posted March 5, 2008 All this Zager talk has provoked me...time the Cat was out among the Pigeons.....anybody know who the Pigeons are?:poke: The place is lousy with Pigeons. Time to clean up! All Zager guitars are made in Indonesia at the old Samick Factory. The Serial numbers tell all. The Letters are "SI"....Samick Indonesia. Home of some of the last Sigmas ever made. What is a Guy to do when there are no more Sigmas to call Martins! Home of the Early Millennium 2000-2005 Washburns. Quality issues were so bad here that Washburn switched production to China in 2005. The bodies of those Zager guitars sure do look like overbuilt Washburns.....I have one of those. Makes a great Beater! I owned three at one point....The Indonesians! I sold two and kept one....One out of Three ain't bad...Ya know...that would make kind of catchy tune, wouldn't it. Bet you it would have that Bat out of Hell sound too.:poke: Change a Bridge and Headstock neck and you got yourself a whole new guitar....kinda. Even the Washburns had abalone inlay scripture....Gold paint is so much nicer...don't you agree? And for a few extra bucks you can put a three piece laminate back on instead of a one piece laminate back. A little abalone and a solid cedar top...amazing that three hundred bucks won't even get you a solid back or sides. Denny is it? Dennis the Menace....an appropriate moniker for a Purveyor of Bovine Fertilizer. Bulls and Pigeons...stinking the place up! For the Record....I owned two Sigma Solid tops and have played about ten of them altogether. Funny thing though....none of them sounded anything like a Martin. Must be some kind of Magic that turns these guitars into Iconic Benchmark Instruments, that all others are compared to, all of a sudden. All together now....Zager be thy Name! Defend the honour Denny and forsake all others, when you have been HAD!!! And we all know what that is...... Don't we, Ladies and Gentlemen. Thats a lot of Pigeon Crap!! :poke: I'm here all week folks! This kind of insulting crap is exactly what I have been so critical of - and I just quoted that because it was the latest. There has been lots more of this ugliness. TC has shown a lot of patience and taken a lot of BS because he bought a guitar and he likes it. It is not necessary to be so insulting in order to make your point that you think Zagers are overpriced or that you think that Denny Zager is dishonest. If TC thinks his guitar is worth what he paid for it, then by definition that is what it is worth. Once again TC, I am glad you stayed with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted March 5, 2008 Members Share Posted March 5, 2008 OK, Hudman, at least we are talking again, thanks!Now here's where I get myself in to trouble. You say you can buy a guitar equal to the Zager, is that based on all guitars coming out of Indonesia factories? Without inspecting a Zager guitar how would anyone be able to put a $200 price on it without looking at it in person. The Zager 50 and 80 are not Sigma guitars, they are supposedly built to Zagers specs. If there is an identical guitar to the Zager, but with a different name on the headstock, then that would help me understand better. You can put a $200.00 dollar price tag on it because it's made by Samick. They, along with Cort, build the vast majority of OEM's non premier guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted March 5, 2008 Members Share Posted March 5, 2008 All this Zager talk has provoked me...time the Cat was out among the Pigeons.....anybody know who the Pigeons are?:poke: The place is lousy with Pigeons. Time to clean up! All Zager guitars are made in Indonesia at the old Samick Factory. The Serial numbers tell all. The Letters are "SI"....Samick Indonesia. Home of some of the last Sigmas ever made. What is a Guy to do when there are no more Sigmas to call Martins! Home of the Early Millennium 2000-2005 Washburns. Quality issues were so bad here that Washburn switched production to China in 2005. The bodies of those Zager guitars sure do look like overbuilt Washburns.....I have one of those. Makes a great Beater! I owned three at one point....The Indonesians! I sold two and kept one....One out of Three ain't bad...Ya know...that would make kind of catchy tune, wouldn't it. Bet you it would have that Bat out of Hell sound too.:poke: Change a Bridge and Headstock neck and you got yourself a whole new guitar....kinda. Even the Washburns had abalone inlay scripture....Gold paint is so much nicer...don't you agree? And for a few extra bucks you can put a three piece laminate back on instead of a one piece laminate back. A little abalone and a solid cedar top...amazing that three hundred bucks won't even get you a solid back or sides. Denny is it? Dennis the Menace....an appropriate moniker for a Purveyor of Bovine Fertilizer. Bulls and Pigeons...stinking the place up! For the Record....I owned two Sigma Solid tops and have played about ten of them altogether. Funny thing though....none of them sounded anything like a Martin. Must be some kind of Magic that turns these guitars into Iconic Benchmark Instruments, that all others are compared to, all of a sudden. All together now....Zager be thy Name! Defend the honour Denny and forsake all others, when you have been HAD!!! And we all know what that is...... Don't we, Ladies and Gentlemen. Thats a lot of Pigeon Crap!! :poke: I'm here all week folks! Thanks for the Samick info. It seems like Samick and Cort make almost every Indonesian and Chinese guitar on the market. I think many people don't realize that most of the guitar companies outsource their inexpensive guitar manufacturing to companies like Samick and Cort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TCBronson Posted March 5, 2008 Members Share Posted March 5, 2008 This kind of insulting crap is exactly what I have been so critical of - and I just quoted that because it was the latest. There has been lots more of this ugliness. TC has shown a lot of patience and taken a lot of BS because he bought a guitar and he likes it. It is not necessary to be so insulting in order to make your point that you think Zagers are overpriced or that you think that Denny Zager is dishonest. If TC thinks his guitar is worth what he paid for it, then by definition that is what it is worth. Once again TC, I am glad you stayed with us. Thanks, not sure if I am providing and service here. But for a while I think we had a good civil discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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