Members Pascal Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 The top one is a classical guitar built by Jose Marin Plazuelo, the bottom one is a gypsy jazz guitar built by John Levoi. But the specifics were not really my point. I'm sure I'd be as happy with similar guitars by other top luthiers. But Martins? Gibsons? Meh... Someone mentioned earlier how narrow-minded the OP had to be to only consider Martin and Gibson and no other builders. I find that only considering flat-top steel strings is just as narrow-minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tbry Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 George is right...its the one he says is the best...they are both good. He knows. IDK cause I never owned any of them but the Martins I have played sounded better than the Gibsons. Except one 1975 Gibson Gospel model...Laminated Maple back and sides and Spruce top...It sounds as good as any guitars I have played....Plus George is just having a little tongue n cheek fun....but he really believes it too so its for real!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 George..... it's time to take your medicine.......PLEASE :poke: Yep behind on his meds for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 The top one is a classical guitar built by Jose Marin Plazuelo, the bottom one is a gypsy jazz guitar built by John Levoi. But the specifics were not really my point. I'm sure I'd be as happy with similar guitars by other top luthiers. But Martins? Gibsons? Meh... Someone mentioned earlier how narrow-minded the OP had to be to only consider Martin and Gibson and no other builders. I find that only considering flat-top steel strings is just as narrow-minded. But the thing is, I see this all the time. People will say "I really want a blah-blah-blah...found one for $2500 bucks I might get" and someone will always chime in with "I would never get that, it's too overpriced...I'd get a ____" and it will always be some special built, master luthier crafted guitar that costs like 3 or 4 times as much. It's pretty hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pascal Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 But the thing is, I see this all the time. People will say "I really want a blah-blah-blah...found one for $2500 bucks I might get" and someone will always chime in with "I would never get that, it's too overpriced...I'd get a ____" and it will always be some special built, master luthier crafted guitar that costs like 3 or 4 times as much. It's pretty hilarious. My point was not about master luthiers, it was about steel-string flat tops not being the only acoustic guitars in the world. Classical, gypsy jazz and archtop guitars are sadly underrated by most on this board. They deserve more recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 My point was not about master luthiers, it was about steel-string flat tops not being the only acoustic guitars in the world. Classical, gypsy jazz and archtop guitars are sadly underrated by most on this board. They deserve more recognition. Yes, I agree with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 IMO if you can justify and afford to spend $2000 on a guitar, then you might as well get a $4000 if it's considerably better and you want a keeper for life. Just give up a couple of coffees per week: $4,000 Guitar20 Years$200 Year$17 Month$0.57 Day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 "For less than a dollar a day, you can help a struggling musician achieve tonal bliss. Send money now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TN.Frank Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 IMO if you can justify and afford to spend $2000 on a guitar, then you might as well get a $4000 if it's considerably better and you want a keeper for life. Just give up a couple of coffees per week: $4,000 Guitar 20 Years $200 Year $17 Month $0.57 Day It's not the .57 cents a day that's hard, it's the $4000 all at once that kills ya'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TN.Frank Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 But the thing is, I see this all the time. People will say "I really want a blah-blah-blah...found one for $2500 bucks I might get" and someone will always chime in with "I would never get that, it's too overpriced...I'd get a ____" and it will always be some special built, master luthier crafted guitar that costs like 3 or 4 times as much. It's pretty hilarious. Some people just make too damn much money and have no concept of a budget. The above statement has happened to me on more then one occasion. I'll find something that I really like(but know I can't afford) and I'll post to get opinions on it. Then once I come to my senses and see that there's no way I'll ever get it people jump on me for not spending money I don't have on a guitar that I can't afford AND THEN yell at me some more for getting something that IS within my budget telling me that I should have spend the extra so I'd be "happy" with what I get. I really do understand where they're coming from, they just don't get where I'm coming from I guess. I would have loved to get the Epi Masterbilt for $400 bucks, it would have been a great deal but the FACTS are I'm having a hard time paying off a $275 Morgan Monroe, no way I could afford the Masterbilt right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C70man Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 I don't see the point of this thread.....which color is better red or blue? Ok, if I had to pick...1948 J45 Adirondack...period...Oh yeah, I like Matisse, BV cabernet, brown shoes, baked or steamed clams, Halibut, pork ribs, artichokes, volvos, and pin striped shirts...did I forget to mention brie? Yeah, that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members andy thompson Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 I don't see the point of this thread.....which color is better red or blue?Ok, if I had to pick...1948 J45 Adirondack...period...Oh yeah, I like Matisse, BV cabernet, brown shoes, baked or steamed clams, Halibut, pork ribs, artichokes, volvos, and pin striped shirts...did I forget to mention brie? Yeah, that too. Volvos? Do you have caravan demolition derbys then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members george black Posted November 24, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 The point of the tread got lost. I will admit I titled it wrong. But my point was that Martin and Gibson are the two largest makers. I have seen the constant bickering that goes on related to which is best. I in the third reply gave an opinion as to how they compare. I believe it is a correct opinion. I gave them both credit as they both have strong points. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C70man Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 Volvos? Do you have caravan demolition derbys then? Not in these...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members andy thompson Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yep P1800 is it? I was going to put apart from the amazon 121, but admit fully I forgot about them, gorgeous. The car that is, I wasnt calling you gor..nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C70man Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yep P1800 is it? I was going to put apart from the amazon 121, but admit fully I forgot about them, gorgeous. The car that is, I wasnt calling you gor..nevermind. Here's a another.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members andy thompson Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 The point of the tread got lost. I will admit I titled it wrong. But my point was that Martin and Gibson are the two largest makers. I have seen the constant bickering that goes on related to which is best. I in the third reply gave an opinion as to how they compare. I believe it is a correct opinion. I gave them both credit as they both have strong points. Oh well.Dont think ive seen much bickering...theres usually a IMO or IMHO or more than likely go and get the one that speaks to you after youve played the field.Are you sure you know where you are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Christhee68 Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 I'll settle this once and for all:What my dad drove when I was a kid:What my grandfather played when I was a kid:End of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TN.Frank Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 And both cost a lot more today then when you were a kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 IMO, Gibsons suck for the most part, but now and then they build a real keeper. It's like they've got the recipe but they keep screwing it up, and now and then out of dumb luck they get it right. I can only think of three in my lifetime that were really great, one was a '57 hog J-45, a newer rose J-45, and a 185. Martin has more consistancy. The dud ratio is considerably lower. I think Martin is a bit more concerned with building "musical instruments" than Gibson. I like Volvos. I've got a '90 740gle 16 valve without the turbo. I read where all the 16 valves were supposed to go to Italy, and am wondering why this one is in the states. Fast car, for sure, but rides kinda rough. Thinking maybe the Mafia owned it at one time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members timmay8612 Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 McPhersons seem to sound like what Gibson intends their guitars to sound like. Anybody else have that impression? I'd agree that Martins seem to be much more consistent, but then again, there are still the ones that are average, and then the ones that are just full of tone. I'm also putting in another vote for the player makes the guitar. I've heard $10k instruments sound like junk in the wrong hands, and sub $1k instruments sound amazing in the right hands. Yes ladies and gentlemen, Phil Keaggy can make an all laminate piece of junk sound better than I can make my Goodall sound, but thats ok :-) *edit* Prefer the looks of my Subaru to the Volvos, but I like the wagons for gear hauling capabilities... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 The best guitar I ever played was made by an independent luthier. It's a mini jumbo made with some pretty dark Brazilian rosewood that was milled in 1948 and is topped with a lightly-braced lutz double-top. He and his wife went all-out on this one because they wanted to make something special together for their 25th wedding anniversary. She designed diamond-shaped inlays on the fretboard and on the back of the body and he (being an engineer) incorporated some luthier tricks and features to make the guitar even more resonant than the sum of its parts. I don't say that because I'm a cork sniffer or even happen to like the guy as a friend. I wish I could afford one of his guitars though. BTW, they like to share their works and sent this one on a national tour where they mailed it to several people for reviews. One guy put his up on youtube: dtll8wP760g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JasmineTea Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 Player Makes The Guitar. Agreed, skill level (or however you want to describe it) can be heard no matter what instrument is being played. But I think the player chooses their guitar in the same way they choose the notes and songs and everything they play. A Silvertone archtop in the hands of Leo Koetke will still sound like a Sivertone archtop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 The player makes a massive difference. A beginner just doesn't have all of the bits together that go into driving a guitar properly. This is why so many people don't "get" what the big deal is with $$ guitars, because they only sound a little better than the cheap ones when they try them - sometimes worse, since the clarity exposes mistakes and messy fretting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Goofball Jones Posted November 24, 2009 Members Share Posted November 24, 2009 The player makes a massive difference. A beginner just doesn't have all of the bits together that go into driving a guitar properly. This is why so many people don't "get" what the big deal is with $$ guitars, because they only sound a little better than the cheap ones when they try them - sometimes worse, since the clarity exposes mistakes and messy fretting. Yeah, but there IS a price-point in just about every musical instrument to where no matter how much more money is thrown at it, no matter how many master luthiers are thrown at it, no matter how hand-craftedness is thrown at it, that it just doesn't sound much different. Don't know what that price point is as there are SO many subjective things out there. And I suspect that someone that buys a 18,000 dollar classical guitar would go out of their way to say they can tell the difference as laying out that kind of cash for someone, no matter how rich you are, will automagically make you believe it's better. It's a psychological thing. It hits us in all things in life. Cars, houses etc etc. But the opposite also happens with people trying to say their $300 special is just as good as that $18,000 custom...to "their ears" at least. I'm sure there's a lot of justification there also in why they're settling for a cheap guitar...the reasons can be endless...but they can do it. But bottom line, there is no "best". There may be better and worse...but no "best. No best guitarist. No best band. No best guitar. No best movie, album, song, actor, director, painter, sculptor.....when it comes to anything artistic, there is no "best". And making a guitar is artwork. Sure, you have some guitars that are like the Holiday Inn seascape paintings "art" oppose to something by Bouguereau....but they're still works of craftmanship and yes, art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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