Members Poe36 Posted June 24, 2012 Members Share Posted June 24, 2012 Hey I've been looking around for a new acoustic and Larrivee has seriously caught my attention. I was just wondering what is the difference between the D-05 and D-03? Is the D-05 just a general improvement over the D-03? Worth the price increase? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pitar Posted June 24, 2012 Members Share Posted June 24, 2012 Gloss UV finish on the body of the D-05 and "select" mahogany. Both are built for light gauge strings though so you might contact Larrivee and ask what they consider to be "light gauge". I think 0.012s are light gauge but they may specify something lighter. On larger bodied guitars I use mediums (0.013s) and it surprises me that these dreads aren't stressed for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poe36 Posted June 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 Thanks for the info. Would the gloss and "select" mahogany have any profound effect on the tone? I usually place with 0.012s, but I'll have to look into that too. Also, a really noob question, but what is the rundown on the difference in tone between the mahogany and rosewood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pitar Posted June 25, 2012 Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 I will call mahogany a drier sound, if wet can be described in myriad overtones. Rosewood is colored much more by its inherent ringing with sympathetic frequencies (overtones) whereas mahogany does not exhibit nearly the color rosewood emits. Their differences can be quite evident in a lightly built sound box such as the D-series Larrivee makes. You can say mahogany sounds like rosewood without all the murmuring resonance of rosewood. It comes down to what you like to play and which sound best suits it. I have some pretty good experience with both and prefer rosewood if spruce is the sound board. I have no idea what "select" will have on the tone. It may well have some effect but chances are it's more of an aesthetic thing. I think both guitars are UV finishes. One thing many people seem to think is the satin finish is thinner. It's not. It has an additive of silicone crystals (micro-plates) that have been exposed to a paraffin (wax). In the curing process these crystals are borne to the surface of the finish due to the paraffin and crowd together at varying angles to each other because there isn't sufficient surface area to lay flat. The finish dries locking them in their positions. They create a surface that will not refract unidirectionally (each crystal reflects light in a direction differing from that of its neighboring crystals) appearing to be less than overall shiny. The more crystals added to the finish means the duller it appears. Enough crystals can make the finish completely matte. So, the finish is actually slightly thicker than a gloss finish. The finish can be reduced (thinned to a lower viscosity) before the dulling agent (a powder) is added but the powder brings it back to the ultimate thickness or more of a standard glossy coating. When people buff a satin finish to a gloss they are actually removing the dulling agent locked into the surface of the finish. This greatly reduces the protective characteristics of the finish as the tendency is to go for as glossy a look as possible. That means over-working the now greatly thinned remaining finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poe36 Posted June 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 Ah I gotcha. Hmm finish doesn't really make too much of a difference to me, cosmetically. And do you know anything about the L series Larrivees? What's their tonal characteristics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Samilyn Posted June 25, 2012 Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 I will call mahogany a drier sound, if wet can be described in myriad overtones. Rosewood is colored much more by its inherent ringing with sympathetic frequencies (overtones) whereas mahogany does not exhibit nearly the color rosewood emits. Their differences can be quite evident in a lightly built sound box such as the D-series Larrivee makes. You can say mahogany sounds like rosewood without all the murmuring resonance of rosewood......{snip} Very well said, Pitar. This is an excellent description of a tonal difference that's very difficult to put into words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pitar Posted June 25, 2012 Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 I had 2 Larrivees. They were the OMV-09E and the 00-05. I prefer the smaller bodied guitars these days though I did get into playing via dreads and jumbos. I have no experience with the L-Series Larrivee offers. The OMV-09E and the 00-05 were very nice guitars but I can't personally vouch for the L-Series. Edit: I have played a couple D-Series though I don't remember which exact number. Kwakatak is pretty up on his Larrivees and he currently owns a D-03. Maybe he'll catch this post and chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pitar Posted June 25, 2012 Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 Very well said, Pitar. This is an excellent description of a tonal difference that's very difficult to put into words. I used to call mahogany rosewood without all the moaning. Not very complimentary, though. Thanks, Sami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted June 25, 2012 Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 Poe, good information and advice above - here's a couple of other comments. First, the main difference between the 03 and 05 is the quality of wood, finish and appointments (trim). 05's are simply fancier guitars - they get slightly better wood (usually cosmetic but they may tap select the tops to a higher standard). Think difference between a 3 series and 5 series BMW, both very nice, the fives are just a little nicer. As far as gloss vs satin finish, glossing is simply more work and cost more to do. You see satin on "price point guitars" - Martins 15's, Taylors 3xx. Some people perfer it - but many do try to polish a satin (you almost never see someone taking sandpaper to a glossy guitar). Gloss shows off the better wood, so it kind of goes with the shift to the 05 series. Depending on the finish materials there may or may not be differences in the actual finish, there certainly are differences in the amount of work to apply and buff the gloss. People argue that thickness of finish on an acoustic guitar matters, but I really doubt that most of us could hear it. For the sake of your questions, I would say no difference in sound. Also, the better grain and color in the "select" mahogany probably has almost no difference in tone. Its the top that really matters. As far as mahogany vs rosewood - you have a good definition above. The classic arguement is that mahogany's cutting defined sound makes a better lead instrument, rosewood's complexity makes it a better rhythm guitar (at least in the bluegrass world thats the feeling). The other thing to remember is that the back and side woods contribute only a small amount to the overall tone - they color it, but the top defines it. Lastly, I think the L series is closer to a jumbo in size. The D is a dread, of course, big boomy and traditional. Jumbos are sometimes favored by strummers, singer song writers - its a guitar that will do anything. Larrivee also makes an OM (oriented to the finger pickers) and some smaller bodies. Here is a summary of both the sizes and the models http://www.larrivee.com/instruments/acoustics/compare.php One more thing to remember about Larrivees - he uses a slightly different bracing pattern than most traditional builders (its X braced but the tone bars are symetrical). I think that gives Larrivees a wonderful modern sound - but it also means that you must try before you buy. Report back.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poe36 Posted June 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 Wow everyone, thanks for all of the quick and thorough replies! I definitely have a much better idea about Larrivees and tone woods now. I play mostly electric, so I'm still learning the ropes of acoustic guitar personalities. I just got an email back from the only Larrivee dealer in Louisiana saying he doesn't have any of the models I'm interested in in stock right now, which kinda sucks. I'll be in Houston a good bit this summer though, so maybe I can track some down there. Once again, thanks for all of the great advice everyone. Much appriciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted June 25, 2012 Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi, Pitar's wrong: I don't own a D-03. I own an OM-03R which is smaller and made of solid rosewood back & sides with a solid sitka spruce top. I tried a D-03 a couple of years ago but elected to buy a Martin D-16GT instead because I preferred the Martin tone and gloss top. The D-03 was no slouch, it was just voiced too similarly to my OM-03R - meaning that it had a "balanced" or "modern" tone as FK alluded to as opposed to Martin's tone of having a subdued midrange. That being said, the main difference between the 03 and the 05 series is that the 03s use sapele and the 05s use south American mahogany. The finish of the 03 series is satin and the 05s are gloss but they're both UV cured Polyester. The 03s feel like they have a lighter finish but by and large I believe that that's a myth. Otherwise, the differences between the 03 through the 10 series is mainly cosmetic. They all use the same bracing pattern, which is a symmetrical X bracing derivative. They all use a dovetail joint on a single piece mahogany neck. They all have the same C-shaped neck profile and compound fingerboard radius. They all have laminated tail blocks (for durability against key cracks in the sides) and they can all handle medium gauge strings. The only Larrivee model that they say can't are the 12 strings. There are subtle differences between each model. Basically each can handle a light touch with bare fingers because of the bracing pattern but generally the smaller bodies like the 00 and OM's will break up if strummed too hard. The D's can handle strumming but have a slightly narrower fingerboard/string spacing at the nut as opposed to teh OM and L models. Now regarding the L, it's essentially a grand auditorium shape with sloped shoulders on the upper bout. It's actually a steel string adaptation of a classical guitar design and is Jean Larrivee's signature model. The lower bout is 16", which is as wide as the D body but the waist is tighter, giving it more "focus" and allowing it perform well as a fingerstyle guitar that can also do strumming. As for where to shop, they're pretty hard to find, though IIRC Guitar Center has started carrying them again. They're pretty consistent though so there's not much risk shopping online. I got my OM-03R from Notable Guitars but there are others out there such as Guitar Adoptions and Trinity Guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knockwood Posted June 25, 2012 Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 Everything FK said. The Larrivee website still lists mahogany as the back/side material for the 03 hoggers and the 05 series. I would think the "select" part refers only to an in-house visual grading. The gloss finish on the 05 series - on any guitar, really - acts as a lens to magnify and "pop" the wood grain. So naturally a manufacturer would want to reserve the most visually pleasing plates for gloss finish. This is not to say that the mahogany used for the 03 series is ugly - the stuff is beautiful. More than most builders, Jean seems to be particularly obsessed with the quality of his woods, and he does much of the purchasing himself. IMHO, the primary difference between a mahogany/spruce 03 and an 05 is a bit of bling. Nothing wrong with that! I'd say it's definitely worth it if you prefer gloss and a bit of abalone. On the other hand, if your sole interest is tone and playability, then I don't think you're giving anything up by choosing the 03. In general, I have a huge amount of respect for Larrivee's materials and workmanship. Ultimately, my own idiosyncrasies steer me toward other brands; however, of all the guitar brands I've ever owned, I'd say Larrivee's fit and finish (on every series) is hands down the best I've seen. Consistently. Very difficult to go wrong with a Larrivee, IMHO. I'd also second the suggestion to take a look at Notable Guitars. I haven't bought anything from Jason in a while so I don't even know if he's still around. But if he is, he's a super nice guy who always had the best Larrivee prices around. Guitar Adoptions is quite popular, but I'd take a close look at their return policy before buying - the return period used to be extremely short, but it's possible this may have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poe36 Posted June 25, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 This is the type of stuff I need to hear. So 03s and 05s are pretty much the same except for cosmetics? Hmm I would really would like a gloss top, so I might have to look into the 05s some more. Thanks for the rundown on the different Larrivee body types. I've only ever really owned/played dreads. I really need to get down to a shop and start playing on everything I see to get a better idea of what suits me. I'm going to go check out Guitar Center today to see if they have any Larrivees that I can just try out. Since I'm making a guitar store visit today anyway, do you guys have suggestions for guitars in the sub-$1500 range? I need a pretty versatile guitar. I play everything from just cowboy chord stuff to John Butler style musics to the occasional fingerstyle. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted June 25, 2012 Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 Forget Larrivee. Get one of these: http://www.gearhounds.com/crafter-dv200nv-acoustic-guitar.aspx . . . . . and go on holiday for a week or two on the savings . . . . or buy a couple more guitars or an amp or lots of pizza and beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted June 25, 2012 Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 This is the type of stuff I need to hear. So 03s and 05s are pretty much the same except for cosmetics? Hmm I would really would like a gloss top, so I might have to look into the 05s some more. Thanks for the rundown on the different Larrivee body types. I've only ever really owned/played dreads. I really need to get down to a shop and start playing on everything I see to get a better idea of what suits me. I'm going to go check out Guitar Center today to see if they have any Larrivees that I can just try out. Since I'm making a guitar store visit today anyway, do you guys have suggestions for guitars in the sub-$1500 range? I need a pretty versatile guitar. I play everything from just cowboy chord stuff to John Butler style musics to the occasional fingerstyle. Thanks! Yes, you need to play everything you can with hang tag prices of 2K or less. This is a fairly good economy for bargining and if you understand how manufacturers and dealers work their prices you might be able to save 25 or so percent of the manufacturers list price (which is what they put on their web site, it is not their so called Minimum Advertized Price. That would include Taylor 3xx and 4xx series (roughy comparible to the 03 Larrys), Martin 16 series, some of the new Guilds (I'm not up on the models) as well as the wonderful PacRim guitars that are competing with the domestic ones. If you have a recorder, take it along and listen later to yourself playing different guitars. Different guitars will have different feel to the necks (Larrys and Taylors might appeal a bit more to an electric player) but also remember that setup will vary (Taylors will probably be lower in the store than say Martin). If you can, try the same guitar in both standard tonewoods - for example, play a D03 or 05 against a D09 (make sure you are comparing the same size) or a D18 against a D28 - that will tell you a lot about the contribution of the woods. Then compare different body sizes in the same woods - a D against an L against an OM. You'll notice that the dread has tighter string spacing at both the nut and the saddle - flatpickers (and electric players) like that but those of us who play fingerstyle prefer a little more room. You'll also notice that Larrivee is one of only a few acoustic builders who have compound radius fretboards - with your electric background that might be a plus. If you can't actually play all these different guitars, go to a website like Maury's or The Podium with audio clips of their stock and A/B them on line, then seek out the one that appeals most to you. Take your time, the journey is as much fun as the final purchase. Keep us in mind as you try things, but bottom line is that it must appeal to your ears, fingers, eyes and wallet. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members C70man Posted June 25, 2012 Members Share Posted June 25, 2012 My D02 is the best sounding Larrivee I have ever played...its Mahogany, not sapelle....but then again its older, when mahogany was easier to come by. But seriously, I do not joke about this...the older D02's are incredible sounding guitars and at a lot less money that either the D03 or 05. Admittedly, they do not have the bling...but bling never made a guitar sound any better. I will put my bearclaw spruce D02 up against almost any other Larrivee dred I have played....hands down a better sounding instrument, at least to my liking. I traded for mine and had it set up for me, but that aside, anyone who has played mine is in awe of it...and that comes from high end Martin and Taylor owners... You should try to look one up, they are worth the effort....and save you a lot of bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonK Posted June 28, 2012 Members Share Posted June 28, 2012 I had a D-05, great guitar - wish I hadn't sold it. Gloss finish, versus satin on the D-03; also has very nice wood binding and other cosmetic niceties. I played .013's on it for three years with nary a truss rod adjustment after I did the original set-up (nor any bellying at the bridge); it handles medium strings as well as any other dread. Sound-wise it reminded me of my Gallagher Doc Watson (though the Gallagher has a much beefier neck, so they certainly didn't play the same). I have a Larrivee OM-3 that I love; it plays easier than my Taylor GC4, even though the Taylor has a shorter scale. If you like the looks of the D-05 and can afford it go for it; otherwise, get the D-03, you won't be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poe36 Posted June 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Thanks for the input guys. Sadly I can't track down any Larrivees around me right now, but I'm hopeful for when I go to Houston next week. But in the meantime, I went to a local guitar shop yesterday and played pretty much every guitar they had in my price range. They carry 90% Martin and Taylor, but I found some in those brands that really struck a chord (hehe) with me. With Martin, I liked the DCPA4, though I'm pretty indifference about having electronics. But then I played a DC-16OGTE and I found that I really like the ovangkol (which I hadn't ever even heard of until then). Then the owner of the shop said I might like some of the Taylor ovangkol guitars. I tried a 412CE, which I liked, but it was on the quiet side compared to the Martin. So he said he's getting a 416CE in sometime next week and I should try that out because the Grand Symphony might suit my tone and volume taste better. So my main question here is what is the general opinion on ovangkol? From what I've read this morning it's comparable to rosewood, but I can't find anything more specific than that. The one thing I did read that makes me slightly uneasy is that ovangkol is like rosewood's lesser sibling. Is there any truth/reason to that? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pitar Posted June 30, 2012 Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/acoustic/features/woods/body-woods/ovangkol This is about all I know about the species with regard to rosewood. Assume East Indian Rosewood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poe36 Posted June 30, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2012 Jackpot! Decided to drop by Guitar Center on a whim and they had a used Larrivee D-09. I really like it, and only $920! ....but they also had a Taylor 416CE and it kinda stole my heart. I don't know what it is, but I love the sound, feel, and playability. Other shoppers were even commenting on how good how it sounds while I was messing around with it. Plus after playing the Larrivee I realized how much I would miss a cutaway. I used those high frets more than I thought. Now, ideally I would get both of the guitars haha. The Larrivee has that folky, classic dreadnaught sound I love, but the Taylor has that piano like sound to it (and a pretty steep price tag for what I'm looking to spend). Decisions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knockwood Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 used Larrivee D-09. I really like it, and only $920! That is a pretty insane deal if the guitar is in good condition. Sounds like your heart belongs to the Taylor, though. Always go with your gut (or heart - for me, the same organ). Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yeah, it sounds like that 416CE is calling to you. I'd move on it. Sure I like my Larrivee a lot but to tell the truth there's something about those Taylor GS's. I'd love a GS7 or GS8 myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pincookie1 Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 Bah... This is my d-09 with a cedar top. I haven't ever played a Taylor that touches it. Keep in mind the camera totally sucks, but it gives you a general idea.[video=youtube;clwRs7WhV_c] I am not a pro, and just tried recording with the cam on a whim. I love my Larrivee... a while back I considered selling it. I went and tried d28's Taylor dreads, and a Stonebridge. I then decided that I was wasting my time, I had what I needed right at home. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knockwood Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 I am not a pro, and just tried recording with the cam on a whim. I love my Larrivee... a while back I considered selling it. I went and tried d28's Taylor dreads, and a Stonebridge. I then decided that I was wasting my time, I had what I needed right at home. YMMV Well done, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pincookie1 Posted July 1, 2012 Members Share Posted July 1, 2012 ty...just went through a break up. 6 years together...right now my whole world is.upside down..and Dylan just said what i feel. imo a d09 for 920 is a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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