Members kanetoads Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 Guido...my understanding is that a 'play' that counts on the chart is where listeners(other artists with accounts) liked your stuff enough to get through the whole song. You have to be logged in, so you can't vote for yourself. It's not political. They either like your music and listen to it, or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stomias Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 The Dunning-Kruger effect is strong in this thread........................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 Guido...my understanding is that a 'play' that counts on the chart is where listeners(other artists with accounts) liked your stuff enough to get through the whole song. You have to be logged in, so you can't vote for yourself. It's not political. They either like your music and listen to it, or not. Nothing to stop you from having more than one account. But regardless. I asked you several times to post your original music here months ago when you were challenging everyone to some sort of phantom guitar-competition you had going on in your head and denegrating every cover-band music you could post to. You blinked. But the bigger point is this: I haven't seen much of anyone be less than respectful of other poster's music and playing abilities. And, in fact, when you first posted your stuff over on BSWTB, you were treated nicely as well. It was only later when you started taking a dickwad attitude and showing an extremely thin-skin that you started receiving harsher criticism. This is a criticism-driven industry. If you can't deal with negative responses, you probably shouldn't be in this business. And CERTAINLY shouldn't be dishing it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 For those who wonder what stomias is talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect Dave - That's a nice rewrite of history, sorry.. it's nothing close to the facts, I was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 Here's something from 5 years ago: Nice stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 For those who wonder what stomias is talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect Cool. Now that you've found the definition do you understand the relevance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 Dave - That's a nice rewrite of history, sorry.. it's nothing close to the facts, I was there. LOL. So was I. What happened EXACTLY was this: You posted some links to your music asking for critiques and received some very kind advice and suggestions. You replied with all sorts of eye-roll-inducing nonsense about how you get treated with god-like praise for your playing abilities, your tone and your gear at the blues jams you attend and challenging anyone who dared criticize you to first prove they were a better "player" than you. And then it all went downhill from there resulting in one now-quite legendary thread for this forum and in your being banned from this place what has to be at LEAST two dozen times by now. Messrs. Dunning and Kruger probably owe YOU some royalties at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 I can't read Stomias's mind...but the concept is spot on for what is going on in these forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 I can't read Stomias's mind...but the concept is spot on for what is going on in these forums. I can't speak towards the entire board, but it certainly is spot on for what is going on in every thread you've ever posted in.... As I said way back when....if you didn't actually exist, Tim, we'd have to make you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 Dave - We both know the history. The only thing you can accuse me of is saying 'here's my music, post yours, put up or shut up'. That's it Dave. And the only reason I took it there was because you guys kept banging away at the same idea, that living in dive bars for decades somehow entitled you to legendary music expert status. Classic Dunning/Kruger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 Dave - We both know the history. The only thing you can accuse me of is saying 'here's my music, post yours, put up or shut up'. That's it Dave. No, that's not it. But even if it was--"post yours. put up or shut up" conveys a ridiculous competitiveness about a field of endeavor that, as you have been told dozens of times by now, is not a competition. Or, at the very least, certainly isn't perceived as one by the people you were challenging. No, the problem was that you posted it all with a self-grandeur that not only far exceeded your own abilities but far exceeded even the abilities of musicians who, by using YOUR own standards of "skillful", are miles beyond yourself. And then when presented with some "dude...show some humility...you ain't all THAT" responses, you started in by putting down the entire idea (and often the livelihood) of musicians who perform covers. Even though none of your clips included any original music themselves. It was a level of hubris previously unseen by even some of the most jaded musicians on this forum, and that's saying quite a bit. Everyone certainly has run across the egotistical dickwad who thinks far too much of himself and his abilities, but you raised the bar. Think about for a minute, Tim. Even if you are incapable of remembering how it all went down, certainly you can remember the results: you alienating virtually everyone you conversed with. Even most of your initial supporters turning against you. And resulting in you and ONLY you being banned. Repeatedly. And then, of course, it was just "everybody elses fault". Everybody else, including the forum moderators, were the assholes. No personal responsiblity for your own actions. I didn't read the full definition of the Dunning/Kruger effect, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if that was part of it as well. And something that I would venture has probably been a pattern throughout your life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 No, that's not it. But even if it was--"post yours. put up or shut up" conveys a ridiculous competitiveness about a field of endeavor that, as you have been told dozens of times by now, is not a competition. Or, at the very least, certainly isn't perceived as one by the people you were challenging. - Dave, you have to understand, that if you take the tone of 'expert', someone is going to make you prove it. No, the problem was that you posted it all with a self-grandeur that not only far exceeded your own abilities but far exceeded even the abilities of musicians who, by using YOUR own standards of "skillful", are miles beyond yourself. And then when presented with some "dude...show some humility...you ain't all THAT" responses, you started in by putting down the entire idea and (often livelihood) of musicians who perform covers. - Actually Dave it started with 'I've lived in the dive bars for decades, ergo I am an expert' that prompted me to say ok...'lets see it'...as a response to all the flak I was getting. Even though none of your clips included any original music themselves. It was a level of hubris previously unseen by even some of the most jaded musicians on this forum, and that's saying quite a bit. Everyone certainly has run across the egotistical dickwad who thinks far too much of himself and his abilities, but you raised the bar. - And did one person in here post any music better then mine? Name one. Think about for a minute, Tim. Even if are incapable of remembering how it all went down, certainly you can remember the results: you alienating virtually everyone you conversed with. Even most of your initial supporters turning against you. And resulting in you and ONLY you being banned. Repeatedly. - How could I alienate anyone...you all ganged up on me. It was a collective effort on your part to mutually circle the wagons, when again, and let me repeat...'shut up with the insults, and show me your playing, enough...let's see it'. And then, of course, it was just "everybody elses fault". Everybody else, including the forum moderators, were the assholes. No personal responsiblity for your own actions. I didn't read the full definition of the Dunning/Kruger effect, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if that was part of it as well. - You and I know that between you and Blue, that anytime I came here and said....let me say it again...'lets see it'...you had Actionsquid on speed dial. Any attempt on your part to conclude I was banned for any honest reason, will simply be met by me, asking Actionsquid to come in, and simply state one forum rule I broke. Just one. No insults, no calling names, I just said, if you gonna talk the talk, walk the walk. That's it. And something that I would venture has probably been a pattern throughout your life? Dave - have you noticed a theme in my posts? Show me the money. That's it. Your all talk, your all air. You're here to make buddies in a forum that is about music. Why can't you go somewhere like www.Ineedabuddy.com or www.Ineedahug.com. I didn't start any fights, I merely saw posts that didn't make sense, I questioned them, I got jumped, and stepped up, you didn't. Now your mad. That's it. In here you have a podium, at the blues jam you would have been blown off the stage, on Soundclick no plays. Your complaint is one of someone that can't understand why I don't agree with you, and it's simple, I don't need fellow back slapping musician love as much as you do, and that really bothers you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 19, 2011 Members Share Posted November 19, 2011 Pat, even Eddie Van Halen, with his success can't get around the haters in here like you. I do have links to my music, but the 'hater' crowd in here, isn't my demographic. All that said, if you haven't caught on to what it takes to make a buck in the music industry by now, your beyond pathetic. You create music, you go on the road to support it. I guess you have a issue with that. Just keep playing covers Pat, just keep hoping to get noticed in some Idaho dive bar. Maybe someday.... You/Eddie Van Halen = Prime rib/ 99cent burger at Wendy's. You can't get a 'fair shake' here not because you aren't Van Halen, but because you're a douchebag to everyone. And for the record, Timmy boy, I play originals and covers mixed. But you knew that. I played out 4 nights this week, Tim, and got paid for ever one of them. How many did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 If you can't deal with negative responses, you probably shouldn't be in this business. He's not in this business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 In here you have a podium, at the blues jam you would have been blown off the stage, 'Yet more douchebaggery. I have yet to see anyone "blown off the stage'' at a blues jam, especially one you're at, unless you're a spectator. At least you're consistent in one aspect: you still need some mental help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Pat - While I appreciate you coming to Dave's defense, it doesn't change the simple fact that there is no built in animosity or conflict between us. Unfortunately, what musical chops you do posses, seem to be negated by the recurring message of your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 I'd like to respond to your post, but you need to learn to use the "quote" feature properly first. Dave - have you noticed a theme in my posts? Show me the money. That's it. Your all talk, your all air. You're here to make buddies in a forum that is about music. Why can't you go somewhere like www.Ineedabuddy.com or www.Ineedahug.com. Again...dead wrong. I'm here for two reasons: 1) to learn about keyboard stuff over in the keyboard forum. 2) get some useful tips about making my band more successful, and maybe passing on a few. I'm not here to make any buddies, and I'm pretty sure I haven't. But I HAVE gotten good results regarding the two things I DO come here for. So let me ask you...why are YOU here and how's that workin' out for ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Pat - While I appreciate you coming to Dave's defense, it doesn't change the simple fact that there is no built in animosity or conflict between us. Unfortunately, what musical chops you do posses, seem to be negated by the recurring message of your posts. Coming from you, it's a compliment. Go back to kiddie porn or whatever it is you normally do and leave the music biz to musicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Are you asking about my playing, or what I think of my time here at HC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Are you asking about my playing, or what I think of my time here at HC? The latter mostly. Unless you're coming here to improve your playing, and then that too. I come here for two main reasons and I've gotten the results I'm looking for. Which is why I keep coming back. It has, for the most part, been time well spent. (Although certainly drawn-out arguments like THIS one are counter-productive...) What about you? Are you getting what you came here for? And if not, why stick around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Boredom really, with the hopes of picking up something. There is little cost to clicking a link, dropping in and seeing what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Boredom really, with the hopes of picking up something. Really? What are you hoping to pick up? All I've ever seen from you is a VERY aggressive, combative attitude. You can't learn anything until you're willing to acknowledge that there are many, many people here who are better than you. In fact, virtually ALL of them are probably better than you at one detail or another. Seriously. You posted a bit ago something about "did one person post music here better than mine?? ". In all honesty, pretty much EVERYONE posted better stuff. And I don't have to be an unequivicoably, objectively better guitar player than you or anybody else (even if such things COULD be measured, which I don't believe they can) to know that. Do you REALLY think your music is just as good as everybody elses? You REALLY think your blues playing is as good as Pat's? Or your jazz playing is as good as 3ShftGtr? Or that those guys don't find something to learn even from players who maybe aren't as good as them on every level? It's that lack of humility that will prevent you from ever being able to pick stuff up and progress and why guys of that caliber continue to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Dave - In the next post, why don't you put in all the links to the 'better stuff' you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Dave - In the next post, why don't you put in all the links to the 'better stuff' you mentioned. You really don't get it. It isn't a competition. And I'm certainly not going to go back and hunt down all sorts of links to all sorts of forum members. Go back one page and listen to the stuff 3ShiftGtr posted. That alone answers the question "did ONE person post music here better than mine?" If you really can't see how that FAR exceeds the extremely average playing you displayed on your "Free Bird To Tracks In The Back Yard" clips---on at least one level or another---then you really are far more clueless than even I realized. You DO know that stuff you posted was just very, very average at best, don't you? You REALLY don't think it was any better than that, do you? (For chrissakes, even if you THOUGHT it was better than very, very average, I would hope you would have the humility to not say so....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 I flipped through 3ShftGtr's music, nothing held my attention enough to finish a song, but I found it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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