Members sventvkg Posted November 16, 2011 Members Share Posted November 16, 2011 I'd like to stop in and say hi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 16, 2011 Members Share Posted November 16, 2011 Sad..These forums have died. Where has everyone gone? doing business, what else... Nespresso or what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted November 17, 2011 Moderators Share Posted November 17, 2011 every so often someone proclaims this place dead...slow...yes, but still here... Richard Mac is spending his time over at Solo/Duo (where I am also the mod), but you have been over there...I think it is just the time of year, people get preoccupied with shopping, wrapping, whining... BTW, what are you guys getting me for Xmas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 There just ain't much business left in the music business to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 Hmmm? I just today signed a new freelance contract with frontgate working w/ websites for venues. Lots of business out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 There just ain't much business left in the music business to talk about. ^ That's probably the reason I signed a label deal last week for 9 albums, and sold 20000 singles to a beverage company three weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kreatorkind Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 ^ That's probably the reason I signed a label deal last week for 9 albums, and sold 20000 singles to a beverage company three weeks ago. you dog you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 Pat..It's hopping here in Nashville..really. Played the Tin Roof tonight. Fun times..Writing, recording, shooting music videos, editing, producing, performing, offered road gigs next summer, etc etc..It's jumping off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'm not talking about gigging or the odd digital distro deal, I'm talking about the business of music in general. It's cool if guys here have deals in the works, but overall, the business itself is on the ropes. How many times can you talk about digital sales, websites, ASCAP vs BMI, copyrights, etc etc? The music business is a shell of what it once was. Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen, but the current model isn't really a business model at all. It's a random array of small pockets of activity here and there, some of it profitable, most not. If the business as thriving overall, this forum would reflect it. And it isn't just this music forum that's quiet. A good many of them are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 And it seems almost certain that the CD will be killed off by 2013, according to record industry insiders. The idea of an entire industry with NO physical product is kinda interesting...I guess that's where books are going, too. But realistically, the music business as we knew it is pretty much history, and nothing (aside from digital downloads) has taken its place. Digital downloads require no infrastructure compared to the previous way of doing things. Really, these kinds of forums should be hopping with people talking about solutions...but it seems we're still trying to get a handle on what this all means, and where it's going. I'm not stuck on the CD, but I don't really like downloads much unless they're full fidelity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 And it seems almost certain that the CD will be killed off by 2013, according to record industry insiders. The idea of an entire industry with NO physical product is kinda interesting...I guess that's where books are going, too. But realistically, the music business as we knew it is pretty much history, and nothing (aside from digital downloads) has taken its place. Digital downloads require no infrastructure compared to the previous way of doing things.Really, these kinds of forums should be hopping with people talking about solutions...but it seems we're still trying to get a handle on what this all means, and where it's going.I'm not stuck on the CD, but I don't really like downloads much unless they're full fidelity. Yeah, that's kind of where I was headed in my last post. We used to have lots of discussions about CDs, replication vs duplication, cover art, physical distribution, getting reviewed, selling at gigs, etc etc. Now, we're looking at how to sell bytes in a format that is flooded, with little incentive for people to seek you out, getting reviewed by blogs and e-zines that few people read, and how to translate live performance into selling music without a physical product. It's hard to discuss it when the variables are so many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 Not to be harsh, but I disagree. "The idea of an entire industry with NO physical product is kinda interesting..." What about Broadcast TV? Those cats seem to have done okay .... "I don't really like downloads much unless they're full fidelity." Fidelity to what? Once again, people did plenty good with broadcasting feature film over TV. I know that it doesn't sound the same as the vinyl I own (most pressed before my birth), but I don't care when I'm just listening to stuff while working oir hanging out. Or heck-- through my good cans with my eyes closed. Blue: "Now, we're looking at how to sell bytes in a format that is flooded, with little incentive for people to seek you out, getting reviewed by blogs and e-zines that few people read, and how to translate live performance into selling music without a physical product. It's hard to discuss it when the variables are so many." I gotta say, I do find new stuff every day. You are totally right that the channels are flooded and that, as entertainers, there is a lot to compete with. But heck-- I make websites (and my living) with a free text editor.... I'm competing against millions of people who can all do what I do (though I am really, really good at what I do). But even though the "channels are flooded" there are people making a living. People are still buying music. People are making livings playing music. It is really, really hard. Just as hard as making a living selling anything else, though. As far as I can tell, everyone thought that if they could get the means of production (produce and distribute recordings), they could do the same thing that record labels were doing int he 20th century. To me, this is a lot like a cargo cult.... lighting some candles and waving your arms in a field isn't going to make cargo planes full of awesome consumer goods land at your feet and dispense wealth. That was never going to happen, any more than acquiring a table saw is going to make you into a a furniture outlet store. Indeed, there are so many directions that you could come to music as a business, but my general feeling (and who knows-- I could be wrong) is that most people here aren't doing this as a business. And that is why the forum in general seems that it is a bit... dead. But I personally know enough folks making their living either playing or promoting music that to say it is not possible-- that the industry is gutted-- sounds inaccurate and cynical even to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted November 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 yea the old biz is dying. The Biz still exists, but it's changing. Good time to be a DIY small publisher BAD time to be anyone who operated before the change because they are mostly dying.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'm not talking about gigging or the odd digital distro deal, I'm talking about the business of music in general. It's cool if guys here have deals in the works, but overall, the business itself is on the ropes. How many times can you talk about digital sales, websites, ASCAP vs BMI, copyrights, etc etc? The music business is a shell of what it once was. Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen, but the current model isn't really a business model at all. It's a random array of small pockets of activity here and there, some of it profitable, most not. If the business as thriving overall, this forum would reflect it. And it isn't just this music forum that's quiet. A good many of them are. Never in the history of live event that high ticket prices have been charged, and never before the honorariums for the artists have been that high. Never before in the history of recorded music that much music has been sold on this planet. If you don't have a product the consumer is willing to buy, then you shouldn't complain. Some example: In China 120 million kids take piano lessons, and many parents buy a piano for them. 450 million Chinese learn English and we sell them English lessons on CD and via download. Chinese consume more then 100 million songs per month via cell phone download. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 yea the old biz is dying. The Biz still exists, but it's changing. Good time to be a DIY small publisher BAD time to be anyone who operated before the change because they are mostly dying.. The large record companies don't care to give away their huge music catalogues for a few cent per song, and still make more cash then any small company with a few music albums. Everything else those melonheads preach is pure self-protectionism, to hide their failure to adjust to the new marketing situation in time, and to hide this truth from their share holders and whine about their failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 What about Broadcast TV? Those cats seem to have done okay .... I gotta say, I do find new stuff every day. You are totally right that the channels are flooded and that, as entertainers, there is a lot to compete with. But heck-- I make websites (and my living) with a free text editor.... I'm competing against millions of people who can all do what I do (though I am really, really good at what I do). But even though the "channels are flooded" there are people making a living. Yes, but the biggest stumbling block is that digital music has not been able to overcome the fact that the internet is still a medium where the consumer has to go find what they want rather than having it put in front of them. In that regard, TV and digital music are a different as racehorses and unicorns. When I turn on the TV, I don't have to find a channel, and then spend a half hour to an hour browsing twenty-five genres on that channel, and them going through five thousand programs until I find one I want. Television, for all the channels we get, is still a medium that offers very little choice compared to live music, and puts those choices right in front of the viewer. That's the same way the old music business worked, pretty much, and why it was successful. From an artists' viewpoint, lots of choice is great. From a consumer's standpoint, it's daunting. It's why when you have kids, you say to them "You can do A or you can do B", not "here is a list of 300 options for you to choose from. Let me know which one you want." Choice up to a point is good, but too much choice causes people to feel overwhelmed and say to hell with it. Have you ever watched American Idol or The X Factor, or one of those talent shows? In essence, what they are doing is what music producers always did- winnow down the field, limit choices for consumers and determine which acts were to be selected based on profit potential. But that model has been made irrelevant and moot in the music business in general, the king has been overthrown and the peasants have stormed the castle. The king is dead, and nothing has arisen to take his place. Until something does, artists are going to have to spend as much or more time as promoters and techies as they spend on making art, trying to steer traffic to their one little stalk of grass in a haystack, to eke out any kind of living, and pray to God something they put out goes viral. And unless it's really funny (Chocolate Rain, or the goofy drummer guy) or it's really different (like Jake Shimabukuro playing Beatles songs on a ukelele or you're a 7 year old prodigy), well, good luck with that. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it's more unlikely than ever before. Ever wonder why those "dinosaurs of rock" megastars are still selling out arenas? The mid 60s to the mid 80s gave us literally dozens of superstars. Well, who has arisen to take their place? I can think of a few, but not many. Since the collapse of the old model, almost none. Maybe Lady Gaga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 Some example: In China 120 million kids take piano lessons, and many parents buy a piano for them. 450 million Chinese learn English and we sell them English lessons on CD and via download. Chinese consume more then 100 million songs per month via cell phone download. China is a huge market, but it isn't a free market by any means. So they buy lots of ringtones and songs. Good, I'm glad someone is buying something. I guess maybe unknown struggling bands will have to make their living touring China. Oh, wait, they can't. Nevermind. I would also be curious as to how many of those 'consumed' songs were purchased as opposed to downloaded free and how many of the artists saw a penny of royalties from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Andrew-sing Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 One or two newbies like me who are hanging around this place!! :-) Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 China is a huge market, but it isn't a free market by any means. So they buy lots of ringtones and songs. Good, I'm glad someone is buying something. I guess maybe unknown struggling bands will have to make their living touring China. Oh, wait, they can't. Nevermind.I would also be curious as to how many of those 'consumed' songs were purchased as opposed to downloaded free and how many of the artists saw a penny of royalties from them. Many bands start to play in China. Pink Floyd and Jean-Michel Jarre where only the first 20 years ago. I am only talking about songs which where payed for. The songs being spread illegally can not be counted, and China isn't even leading in piracy, and the USA is only a few percent behing China in illegal music exchange. A record company doesn't care about people who download everything for free. A company only cares about consumers, not the other folks. The whining about lost income makes absolute no sense since the fact can not be changed. The day potatoes can be downloaded, farmer Joe will step on front of his house and see his field already harvested. Until a few years ago music was free in China, and the artist and composers had to generate their income in a total free market, without any authors society cashing in royalties for them. This is about to change, but I regret that author societies domineer over the artists soon. The whole free market will disappear, and it will be soon as in Europe and North America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 17, 2011 Members Share Posted November 17, 2011 and a Piano can't be "bought" via P2P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted November 18, 2011 Members Share Posted November 18, 2011 Yes, but the biggest stumbling block is that digital music has not been able to overcome the fact that the internet is still a medium where the consumer has to go find what they want rather than having it put in front of them. What U talk'in bout ???? Active vs. Passive Fans: Why Radio & TV Still Rank Tops For Music Discovery.... http://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2011/11/somethings-wrong-here-why-are-we-still-being-fed-what-to-like.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+typepad%2FDqMf+%28hypebot%29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 18, 2011 Members Share Posted November 18, 2011 Look...people are making money. And they always will....but OVERALL NUMBERS ARE DOWN....you can get all semantic about this and that, but industry source after industry source say that THERE IS LESS MONEY BEING SPENT ON MUSIC WORLD WIDE THAN THERE WAS IN THE 90'S....but more people have in their possession more music than ever before. I know folks that have gig after gig after gig's worth of music on their drives.....and paid maybe $100 total over a 3 or 4 year period. Hundreds of thousands of dollars if purchased..... No matter what the reasons are for the people who are ARE having success, the reason that folks that are in the business don't have much to say is that the old models don't work, and the new models are too specific to situation. What are you gonna tell an independent artist that is going to help? To maximize their presence on Facebook and Twitter? Another reason no one is talking is cuz the honeymoon of "ANYONE CAN MAKE A RECORD" is over. Most every one who wanted to make a record and bought some mics and a digital recorder did already. And they have a giant pile of cd's sitting in the garage cuz they only sold 5 or so at each gig and about 20 on line.....they gave away one to anyone who'd take one, and they still have a couple boxes left. Then they said 'What's the point?" Now they write and record some tunes and look at the screen, remember how hard they worked to sell 150 cd's, and push save, go to bed so they can get up for their day job. Some sell their recording stuff, give wifey her room back, and buy some PA stuff and start a cover band. Honeymoon is over. Nothing worked. But the ones that are doing it cuz they have to, are still doing it. And always will. Art will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted November 18, 2011 Members Share Posted November 18, 2011 Another reason no one is talking is cuz the honeymoon of "ANYONE CAN MAKE A RECORD" is over. Most every one who wanted to make a record and bought some mics and a digital recorder did already. And they have a giant pile of cd's sitting in the garage cuz they only sold 5 or so at each gig and about 20 on line.....they gave away one to anyone who'd take one, and they still have a couple boxes left. Then they said 'What's the point?" Now they write and record some tunes and look at the screen, remember how hard they worked to sell 150 cd's, and push save, go to bed so they can get up for their day job. Some sell their recording stuff, give wifey her room back, and buy some PA stuff and start a cover band. Honeymoon is over. Nothing worked. Yes and no ; Turnover then turn the page to the next batch of suckers . The Music equipment and instrument - DAW and sony acid loop MUSIC IS EASY consortium will team up with the musicians coaching DIY crowd to sell a dream to another batch of suckers . there has always been Dilettantes and there always will be . It's just the gate keeping that got removed . P.S. Wifey still doesn't get that room back ; it's needed for the next ill advised adventure/hobby!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 18, 2011 Members Share Posted November 18, 2011 there has always been Dilettantes and there always will be . It's just the gate keeping that got removed . Back when, the dilettantes didn't get to make a record....so we didn't have to deal with them....and when something good was made, you knew about it. Awareness channels are all cross talk now. I have heard some amazing stuff that NO ONE will ever hear about cuz everyone who is good is making a record. 15 years ago the monies would have said "These guys have their {censored} together and know what they are doing, are making great music and are busting their ass. We can make some money off them in the current model." But instead of getting a chance to be heard, your either make music to be huge or you are nothing these days. The middle class of the music business is GONE. Because of the flood of dillettantes. .But see.....The second batch will be smaller IMHO cuz they KNOW there is so much out there. In stead of trying to sell it, they'll just make it and give it away like the rest without any pretense of making it to "the stage". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 18, 2011 Members Share Posted November 18, 2011 Nobody gives a damn about dillettantes. Everybody can buy a recorder and put his hat on the street. Making music and producing music became democratized. Almost anyone can produce music today. And it is good that way !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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