Members Vito Corleone Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 I flipped through 3ShftGtr's music, nothing held my attention enough to finish a song, but I found it interesting. Really? That's it? That's all you got? I didn't ask you if you found it interesting or if it held your attention. This was all about YOUR criteria for if the guitar playing is as good as yours. So? You tell me. I don't know if this is part of the Dunning/Kruger Effect, but pretty much everyone knows people who have this sort of MO, and it seems to be most prevelant among musicians: Q: So how many gigs is your band doing? How much money you making? A: Oh, I don't care about playing gigs for money. Guys who do that don't really care about the music and aren't going anywhere anyway. Q: So how IS your band doing? A: Well, I'm not really playing in a band. All the musicians I try to hook up with are all full of {censored} and aren't worth playing with. Frankly, I'd rather just go to blues jams or work on my own stuff at home. Besides, I'm a much better player than most of those guys. Q: Really? You think you're better than most of the other guys around here? A: Sure. Post their stuff. I'm as good as any of 'em. Q: So what do you think about THIS guy then? A: He's alright I guess, but that's not really my thing. Can't really compare it to what I do. Are you starting to detect a pattern here, Tim? And as far as the "comparison" stuff goes: that's the problem with this sort of bull{censored}. In my view, there are only two objective way to measure whether performances are successful or not, and both fall woefully short so I hesitate to even mention them: 1) commercial success. This is easily measureable in and of itself: who makes the most money, who gets the most gigs, etc. But it doesn't tell us a whole lot about musicianship. 2) you can measure pure chops to a certain degree with certain types of music. For example, there are certain, somewhat objective ways to measure how well one pianist plays a Beethoven sonata vs. another. But again, even this fall deeply into the subjective. Is Glenn Gould a better pianist than Vladimir Horowitz? Personally, I prefer Gould's take on most pieces. But to say he's objectively BETTER? Impossible. Many people prefer Horowitz. At the same time, of course, both pianists are certainly better than most young students just starting out. So there is THAT degree of musicianship that can be measured. Beyond that, the rest is subjective. Is Pat Metheny a better guitarist than Eddie Van Halen? Is Keith Emerson a better musician than Ann Wilson? Was John Lennon a better songwriter than Cole Porter? Only a fool would seriously ask these questions let alone try to answer them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Dave - Why don't you post the forum link to that dialogue that I supposedly made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 I flipped through 3ShftGtr's music, nothing held my attention enough to finish a song, but I found it interesting.I appreciate you taking some of your time to listen. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Nice stuff! Tks G. Preciate you taking the time. And you got a great ear, so I appreciate the compliment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Tks G. Preciate you taking the time. And you got a great ear, so I appreciate the compliment! It kept my attention too, and I dug it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 It is somewhat amusing how forumites talk about music, and name themself in the same sentence as world star. I listen to some of the music on those websites of yours. Not one tune I would buy, and if any of you would play in a bar I want to have a drink, I would immediately back out of that place and have the drink somewhere elese. Stay realistic. You are all a bunch of amateurs. That's very likely the reason why this forum titled: "The Music Biz" is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stomias Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Are you a musician, or just a critic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 He's a businessman who sells mostly dance tracks and ringtones to the Chinese and thinks it applies to the music business in America. It is somewhat amusing how forumites talk about music, and name themself in the same sentence as world star.\ \Um...no one did, not comparatively anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stomias Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 {censored}ing Einstein.....................the salesman. I guess it's a better gig than the patent office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stomias Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Hey Einstein!! Kruger and Dunning proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will: 1. tend to overestimate their own level of skill; 2. fail to recognize genuine skill in others; 3. fail to recognize the extremity of their inadequacy; 4. recognize and acknowledge their own previous lack of skill, if they can be trained to substantially improve. Pay close attention to #2 and 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 It kept my attention too, and I dug it. Tks for listening Pat. The "digging" is mutual! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Stay realistic. You are all a bunch of amateurs. That's very likely the reason why this forum titled: "The Music Biz" is dead. Maannn....just a {censored} thing to say. And I kinda take that slapdick line personally. I make a full time living in the business. There is not one dime I make that is not music business related. And it has been that way for going on 20 years. I'm not a trust fund kid, and my wife does not work for anyone else but me. I buried one kid, put one thru college, and the last one will graduate hs next year. Everything I have I have earned in the music business. I have played everything from sheds to theaters to "A" room clubs as a sideman to signed artists. I have ridden on the bus, bitch. I have played everything from theaters to coffee houses with my instrumental music. My music for production has appeared in local, regional, national and international commercials, tv shows, and movies. I have a endorsement deal with a guitar maker and an effects maker. Don't tell me I'm an amateur, cuz it is a bunch of loudmouth internet swagger. A life in art takes many forms, and to assume that yours is best and it puts you above everyone here, makes you a douche. Some of us choose to STAY AWAY from the side of the business that seems to have made you so popular and famous and so much better than the rest of us. {censored} you, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blueshoes22 Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 In here you have a podium, at the blues jam you would have been blown off the stage, on Soundclick no plays. Your complaint is one of someone that can't understand why I don't agree with you, and it's simple, I don't need fellow back slapping musician love as much as you do, and that really bothers you. Careful with that language man, you might get sued.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 :poke:And so we see what has killed this forum...... I learned something from those I disagreed with as well as those whom I was in agreement with , but the propensity of these threads to degenerate into pissing matches and and the too high of a threshold for troll tolerence has destroyed it .Best of luck too all;Viking , Richard, 3rd shift, daddy, Poker99,Matimus and blue ; You guys are the coolest !OUT:wave: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Careful with that language man, you might get sued.... Oh look, Trollin' Timmy the bathrobe boy finally has a friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Careful with that language man, you might get sued....No, no, I feel I am on firm legal ground, you see the legal team for Harmony Central has stated that you can slam members, artists, bands, individuals, labels...everyone except advertisers...because you know...if you slander an advertiser, that just goes against what this country stands for, the constitution, the bill of rights, apple pie, mom, trucks and dogs........you get the idea....Now which unethical sell out was I talking too...oh yeah....So what were you saying Pat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 He's a businessman who sells mostly dance tracks and ringtones to the Chinese and thinks it applies to the music business in America. \ \Um...no one did, not comparatively anyway. Love it! You forgot to mention that I worked in LA as pimp. Btw, about 300,000 tracks we licence to Asia is American music.Please tattoo behind your ears: ASSUMPTION IS THE MOTHER OF {censored}UPTION!!! Use a nice tattoo font.Forumites, you are Americans. Tough people who can take everything. If I would say the same to a French bloke, he would cry and I would have to pay his psychiatrist's invoice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Oh, almost forgot, I landed on one forumites website and the first track in the myspace player had some real fire in the guitar playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 20, 2011 Members Share Posted November 20, 2011 Oh look, Trollin' Timmy the bathrobe boy finally has a friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted November 21, 2011 Members Share Posted November 21, 2011 HEY KANE.... Where's the link? You threw down, I responded...now it's your turn. Link, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 21, 2011 Members Share Posted November 21, 2011 You have two choices - 1- You post up on Soundclick, we do battle over there. Let the public decide. 2- You can make me a Mod here then everyone will kiss my ass, play nice, just like they do with you. Fair enough? To be honest, I really do want you to give my playing a listen but this venue is as hostile as it gets. Nothing will come of the commentary here, none will be fair. I'm just choosing a venue that provides an even playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 21, 2011 Members Share Posted November 21, 2011 2- You can make me a Mod here then everyone will kiss my ass, play nice, just like they do with you. 3ShiftGtr is a mod? Must suck for me then because, as he'll probably be the first to tell you, I haven't really spent too much time kissing his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 21, 2011 Members Share Posted November 21, 2011 Dave - Your welcome to post up your original guitar songs too...you have some right? Because you do originals? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted November 21, 2011 Members Share Posted November 21, 2011 Dave - Your welcome to post up your original guitar songs too...you have some right? Because you do originals? Right? A) I challenged you to post up your original music in exchange for mine a long time ago. Since you were putting down people who play in cover bands, I assumed you must have some good originals. I'm still waiting to hear your stuff. When you put up yours, I'll be glad to put up mine. B) I play keyboards. I don't have any recordings of original material with me playing guitar. What is a "guitar song" anyway? What does the instrument any song is played on have to do with anything? C) Still waiting for you to respond to 3ShiftGtr here. You really should take your turn before you start handing off the baton to someone else. Your requirement that they be posted on some other forum is complete bull{censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kanetoads Posted November 21, 2011 Members Share Posted November 21, 2011 Well darn... as a keyboard player and someone with no original guitar playing, you don't have a horse in the race then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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