Members offramp Posted November 3, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 3, 2005 And I never made any such claims now, did I? I'm fully aware of how they use the tubes, yet there was still a marked improvement. You can argue technicalities and whip out schematics all you want, but that's what happened. For future reference, I'd suggest you make the effort to really read what a person posts--even if that means re-reading it a few times over--and then take a page from O'Keefe's book on professionalism and courtesy. You'll be amazed at the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the russ Posted November 3, 2005 Members Share Posted November 3, 2005 Originally posted by offramp And I never made any such claims now, did I? I'm fully aware of how they use the tubes, yet there was still a marked improvement. You can argue technicalities and whip out schematics all you want, but that's what happened.For future reference, I'd suggest you make the effort to really read what a person posts--even if that means re-reading it a few times over--and then take a page from O'Keefe's book on professionalism and courtesy. You'll be amazed at the results. So even if "technically" the tube does nothing in the circuit, if you hear it, it's there? I've swapped tubes in cheap toob preamps before (although never the TubePre) and have never noticed a significant difference, so i find it hard to believe, but hey, if you swear i guess i'll have to take your word for it. I can see it sounding different if you had the distortion cranked all the way up or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CN Fletcher Posted November 3, 2005 Members Share Posted November 3, 2005 Originally posted by offramp Just because one knows what one is talking about, doesn't grant carte` blanche to be rude. Pardon me... I missed the "rude" part of: Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com With that chain... I sincerely doubt a tube is going to make a substantial difference in the "quality" of the sound of that signal path... best of luck with it. I sincerely doubted [then, and doubt now until I hear it... as in "personally hear it"] that a single tube would make that much of a difference to the sound, then wished you luck... So which part of that was "rude"? The doubting part? You want rude... go {censored} your mother. There, you got rude. The other {censored} was my doubting a significant difference... is doubt rude? Is doubt bad? Are we sheep? Should we not question? Followed by: Originally posted by the russ anyone got a diagram of the TubePre circuit? Which was followed by: Originally posted by offramp Must you be an ass? What do you gain from being that way?Do you have to {censored} on just about everyone you disagree with? What is {censored}ting on anything by asking if someone has a drawing? Lemme get this straight... I'm being rude by "doubting" and "the russ" is being an ass by asking if anyone has documentation of this thing. I think you may be taking the hardware way more seriously than is necessary... but maybe I'm being rude in posting this conjecture as well as I was being rude by posting my previous doubt... but I fail to see the personal attacks you seem to be trying to defend. Again, if you don't like my "style", or anyone else's "style" please feel free to apply the "ignore" function... if you fail to employ the "ignore" function then you may selectively choose to ignore my statements... but passing judgement? Who the {censored} do you think you are to pass judgement... especially to a somewhat politely phrased "doubt". You want us all to be more "O'Keefe-esque"? You think we'd all be better off owning a bunch of firearms? Wanna know what I think [rhetorical question because I'm sure you don't wanna know what I think... unless of course what I think doesn't conflict with what you think in which case it's cool]... I think the world be a pretty boring place if we all agreed on everything... that's what I think. I'll not participate in this thread any farther... but hopefully you have some food for thought and will work from the premise of an open mind to personal expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Okay people, I've read the whole thread... a few comments if I may (hey, it's "my" forum - I guess I can comment ): 1. Yes, I have a lot of firearms. Nothing wrong with good firearms if you know how to use 'em and are always safe with them. 2. I'd rather have a "rice burner" than a Hog (although I do like the V-Rod a lot!)... but both will get you where you want to go. If you prefer one over the other, use it in good health and keep the rubber side down and don't get too upset or worried about what everyone else thinks of your choice. Draw the obvious correlation from that analogy. 3. I've known Fletcher for a long time now, and trust me folks - he's actually mellowed out quite a bit over the past several years. He still calls 'em as he hears 'em, and I can totally respect him for that. I may not always agree with him on everything, and we're both okay with that. When that happens, (and it's not all THAT common), it doesn't mean that I think he's full of crap and that he doesn't know what he's doing as an engineer... it just means we have a difference of opinion regarding that particular subject. 4. The LAST thing I want to see happen on this forum is for it to turn into FlameFestCentral. The second to the last thing I want to see happen on this forum is for it to turn into some sort of homogenized "everybody agree with everyone else on every subject that comes up" circle jerk (sorry for the off-color description, but it was the best I could come up with). Fletcher and I have different "styles" online, and IMO, there's plenty of room for both. IOW, this site is here for everyone to enjoy - a place to participate in discussions and to share expertise. I don't want to stifle diversity - no one is going to learn anything that way, or get any new ideas that way. But that doesn't mean we have to be asses to each other either. Disagree with an opinion all you want - all I ask (insist on really) is that everyone refrain from personal attacks. Don't like someone's preamp choice or mic choice? Express that all you want... just don't call them an idiot (or worse) just because their budget / needs / opinions / preferences don't line up with yours. IMO, Fletcher responded within the lines of the forum rules... he answered the original question regarding tube swaps, and then when he learned the type of device that was the subject of that swap, he expressed reservations about the amount of tonal improvement that he personally would expect from a tube swap in such a device. While Fletcher has "high end" tastes, (and that's definitely "okay"), he didn't personally attack the poster - he just expressed reservations about how much improvement he would expect under those circumstances in a low-budget box. Now if you're using a low-budget box (which Fletcher isn't very likely to ever do... ) and YOU hear a difference, you can feel free to continue to use that box, with that tube and enjoy it to your heart's content. Fletcher and / or the Good Audio Police ("G.A.P.") isn't going to show up on your doorstep with an arrest warrant or anything like that. Again, I want to encourage diversity and different POV's... all I ask is that we remain civil and treat each other with decency while having our discussions. Remember the motto - "Be excellent to each other". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the russ Posted November 4, 2005 Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe Fletcher and / or the Good Audio Police ("G.A.P.") isn't going to show up on your doorstep with an arrest warrant or anything like that. well {censored}... what am i gonna do with this arrest warrant then? i spent all afternoon getting it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 4, 2005 Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe 1. Yes, I have a lot of firearms. Well, of course you do! After all, you live in the 909!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted November 4, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe Again, I want to encourage diversity and different POV's... all I ask is that we remain civil and treat each other with decency while having our discussions. Remember the motto - "Be excellent to each other". Which is all anyone--least of which, me-- ever asked of him to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by UstadKhanAli Well, of course you do! After all, you live in the 909!!! Only my cellphone. The other line (home and studio) is now "the 951"... but that somehow doesn't have the same "ring" to it. And before some smart-alec asks, no, the area code change didn't change the ringer's tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted November 4, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 Which, one could assume, would be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitwizz Posted November 4, 2005 Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 ustedkornholio, We live in the "9-fitty-uno" now. I like the fact, that when the mention of a "firearm stockpile", the air "thins" a bit, and is more relaxed. Whateverbeclever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitwizz Posted November 4, 2005 Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com I'll not participate in this thread any farther... but hopefully you have some food for thought and will work from the premise of an open mind to personal expression. farther further, is the word.....It does'nt mean much, but just could'nt sleep well, if the correction was'nt made. You're farther, is who married your "marther".... heheehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CN Fletcher Posted November 4, 2005 Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 OK... I lied... minor participation I type on an average of 8-10,000 words a day... every now and again I get one wrong. In the immortal words of my grandmother: "{censored} happens" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 4, 2005 Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by guitwizz ustedkornholio, We live in the "9-fitty-uno" now. Yeah, sure, but we've got a long standing tradition of 909 jokes that we can't just abandon. Besides, "909" has a really great ring to it!!!! (a ring that apparently has not changed....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 4, 2005 Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by Fletcher@mercenary.com In the immortal words of my grandmother: "{censored} happens" ???? I thought MY grandmother coined that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitwizz Posted November 4, 2005 Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 The wierd thing with this particular area code change, is that the old one is right next to the new one...... makes for some corn-fusion when calling a familiar adjacent city... When they took 714 from us, they threw it down to OC, this one is still in our back yard. I dont see why the change again. The last one (714) was because of increasing dial-up onramps needed, do that many people have dialup anymore? oops, sorry for the hijack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 4, 2005 Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 A lot of it is also due to cell phones, FAX machines, tube sock manufacturers and who knows what else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Originally posted by guitwizz The wierd thing with this particular area code change, is that the old one is right next to the new one...... makes for some corn-fusion when calling a familiar adjacent city... When they took 714 from us, they threw it down to OC, this one is still in our back yard. I dont see why the change again. The last one (714) was because of increasing dial-up onramps needed, do that many people have dialup anymore? oops, sorry for the hijack Well, 714 was a HUGE geographical area code originally - stretching all the way from Bishop up north, all the way down to San Diego in the south, and as far west as San Dimas in the west, all the way to the AZ border in the east. We're talking 1960's - 1980's here. In 1992, the 909 was carved out of that... the 619 down south (Diego) was once part of the 714, etc. There's a couple of approaches they can take with the area code things.. redesignating areas (smaller) for existing area codes and assigning new area codes for parts of the old coverage area. They also sometimes do the hated "overlays", where a new area code is assigned to the same general geographical area that is covered by the old area code... and this 951 area code is a bit of an overlay. Again, my cellphone remained 909, but my main line is now 951, although 909 is generlly San Bernardino, and 951 in Riverside. And yes, while fewer people need secondary phone lines for dedicated Internet dialup lines due to the increase in use of cable and DSL Internet connections, there is still some demand for that... and the bigger demand for numbers is probably coming from commercial use (multi-line PBX setups are far more common these days for businesses than in days gone by) and from the huge increase in cellphone use. Area code changes and overlays are nearly always caused by a increased demand for new numbers and a dwindling of supply of available / assignable numbers. IOW, the area is growing, and so is the demand for phone lines / numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 4, 2005 Members Share Posted November 4, 2005 Yup. I forgot to mention the ridiculously huge explosion in population in the Riverside area - and the rest of Southern California. That alone accounts for a lot of the phones!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitwizz Posted November 5, 2005 Members Share Posted November 5, 2005 Well, my house is worth almost 4x what I bought it for, only 6 years ago. Really absurd, why would people "want" to move into So Cal at ALL?! Who can afford it, from... well over there? Used to be much prettier in the 70's, and much more organic with a lot of lore and heritage, instead of billions of tract home roofs... AHEM, uh....ok, no more mushiness, back to MANLY thingS!!! Peluso Cem6c, or AT 4041?? Brick or UA solo 610? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the russ Posted November 5, 2005 Members Share Posted November 5, 2005 still waiting on that tubepre diagram... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members offramp Posted November 5, 2005 Author Members Share Posted November 5, 2005 drop it, already. for {censored}'s sake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members skunky_funk Posted November 6, 2005 Members Share Posted November 6, 2005 OK folks, I am posting on behalf of the impoverished people who are so ashamed to own these so-called "wishful thinking starved-plate tube preamps"but at the same time are trying their best to make their gear useable. I own an Aphex Tubessence 107 hybrid mic pre, and it did sound decent. It did sound transparent, BUT NOT STERILE, but it didn't have much room for pushing the circuit to natural, fat compression (i.e. that coveted tube saturation and transformer-warmth phenomenon). So out of experimentation I opened it up, WOW, it had a NOS JAN Philips 12AT7. But I tried swapping out the tube with an RCA 12AT7. The difference? The RCA had a fatter bottom and smoother highs. I never had to deal with cutting much on the 7k and 16k area for overheads. But did it make my Aphex 107 sound like a Great River? Hell no! But definitely made my preamp sound 3x better, just with a small upgrade. I also did the same with my crappy ART Tube MP. It had the worst noise imaginable in a mic pre. I opened it up and it had an Ei ECC83. These tubes are known for being plagued by microphonics and noise. So what I did was replaced it with a NOS JAN GE 5751. It had 30% less gain, but it cleaned up the signal significantly. IMO, changing tubes in inexpensive hybrid tube preamps is like having a trip to the salon for a hair makeover. You get a nice change in your looks, and you feel better, but it doesn't mean you had your face replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitwizz Posted November 6, 2005 Members Share Posted November 6, 2005 Skunky,I had the 207 for a while , and the pre (like the 107) uses "reflective plate" technology. I have read on this a bit, but the differences seem to him and hah around the REAL difference between them, if there is any. Plus, they both draw on each side of one 12at7 tube....that seems cheesy to me, but Im not an electronics guy. I guess anything with 2 drive/output controls (except the solo610) is a starved plate design? None of them are the 2-300 volt true tube circuitry. I am trying to save up for the UA when it comes out, even though the available specs on that are a bit thin. Im pretty sure they would put out a hybrid model, even if its just a desptop "pre only"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lucky #9 Posted November 15, 2005 Members Share Posted November 15, 2005 Do we really need to insult the guy's mother? We can be cruel and rude to each other, outspoken and opinionated and blast each other unmercifully about our own peccadilloes and foibles without going there. That's low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the russ Posted November 15, 2005 Members Share Posted November 15, 2005 Originally posted by Lucky #9 Do we really need to insult the guy's mother?We can be cruel and rude to each other, outspoken and opinionated and blast each other unmercifully about our own peccadilloes and foibles without going there.That's low. that's fletcher, and i don't think he was actually telling the poster to {censored} his own mother... it's an expression, guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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