Singles vs. Albums as promo strategy

[richardmac]

How do the crusty old dinosaurs here (with one or two exceptions) feel about this topic? I just read a blog about this - I don't feel the need to link to it because I didn't think it was worth the read. But the topic is valid - is it better to put out a song per month, which gives you "something new to promote each month," or is it better to put out an album per year, which is more desirable as a product than a single? We are talking about online promotion here, by the way.

 

Here's my take - I've changed my mind about this. I used to think that a single per month was a good idea because it kept your name "out there" and it helped people remember you. I now feel that's a load of crap - people will like you or not, and thus will remember you or not. If you put out an album and they buy it and they like it, they're going to remember you and they'll consider buying your next album, if they like it. Using singles like an advertising campaign might work if your music is so-so... meaning people "kinda" like it. If they "kinda" like you, then a stream of singles might work. But if that's the case, I'd be better off releasing less material and just putting my energies and efforts into writing better songs.

 

In other words, I might write ten songs - one of them is killer, and the other are so-so. I am saying that I'd be better off keeping the one killer song and throwing away the other 9, and waiting until I've got 10-12 killer songs and releasing an album. I know this is an old school philosophy, but I do not see the "release a song every month" model actually making anyone successful. And if it is working for an artist I don't know about, I'd say there are hundreds or thousands using it unsuccessfully currently.

 

I think pop music fans want singles, yes. But in all other genres I think people want albums, but they want albums where all the songs are good. Singles outsell albums because people are going into iTunes and cherry picking songs from old albums that only had 2 - 3 good songs, and because they're buying pop songs. And because of the casual music fans who only buy a handful of hit singles each year.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

Since digital sales age, all music bought are singles.

 

Before digital sales era, you made a new song when the sales of the previous song stagnated.

[tim_7string]

It all comes down to the age old question of quantity vs. quality.

 

Sure, I could write a hundred songs a year. Heck, maybe even in a month. But would they all sound good? Would they all be great? I doubt it. They would probably all suck, but maybe two to four of them would have great potential.

 

I'd rather hear five quality tunes released every two years that I want to listen to over and over again for the rest of my life than 12 tunes a year that don't do anything for me.

 

I want to take pride in whatever I create. I only have three songs on my Myspace Music page but I am proud of how all three of those songs sound. And all three of those are 10 years old now. I can still listen to them and not cringe.

 

It's kind of like drawing. I used to be heavily into writing and drawing my own comic books when I was younger. I realized in my teens that as obsessed as I was with drawing and creating, I did not have the natural talents for it like I did with music. My stuff looked amateurish, while my playing ability with music was immediate. I could put up a website and upload hundreds or thousands of sketches that are unfinished or even stuff that is poorly inked, but will anyone bother to want to look at them? I wouldn't. When artwork seems to suffer for certain comic book titles, because they changed the art team, or the main artist is rushed or whatever, I stop buying the book. The art is what attracts me to it, so if it is suddenly not done as well, I lose interest.

 

Quality. I want people to remember my songs fondly, not think "Well, it's o-KAY...but if he only..."

[richardmac]

 

Since digital sales age, all music bought are singles.

 

 

I bought a CD last month. I have sold copies of my whole entire CD online via iTunes. A couple of weeks ago a guy sent me a check for four copies of my latest CD, which I sent to him via the US Mail. I don't understand why you say things like this.

[richardmac]

 

It all comes down to the age old question of quantity vs. quality. Sure, I could write a hundred songs a year. Heck, maybe even in a month. But would they all sound good? Would they all be great? I doubt it. They would probably all suck, but maybe two to four of them would have great potential. I'd rather hear five quality tunes released every two years that I want to listen to over and over again for the rest of my life than 12 tunes a year that don't do anything for me. I want to take pride in whatever I create. I only have three songs on my Myspace Music page but I am proud of how all three of those songs sound. And all three of those are 10 years old now. I can still listen to them and not cringe. It's kind of like drawing. I used to be heavily into writing and drawing my own comic books when I was younger. I realized in my teens that as obsessed as I was with drawing and creating, I did not have the natural talents for it like I did with music. My stuff looked amateurish, while my playing ability with music was immediate. I could put up a website and upload hundreds or thousands of sketches that are unfinished or even stuff that is poorly inked, but will anyone bother to want to look at them? I wouldn't. When artwork seems to suffer for certain comic book titles, because they changed the art team, or the main artist is rushed or whatever, I stop buying the book. The art is what attracts me to it, so if it is suddenly not done as well, I lose interest. Quality. I want people to remember my songs fondly, not think "Well, it's o-KAY...but if he only..."

 

 

Tim, I agree with everything you said. But what do you think about releasing singles as a promo strategy? Is it more effective or less effective than putting out a full album once per year?

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

 

I bought a CD last month. I have sold copies of my whole entire CD online via iTunes. A couple of weeks ago a guy sent me a check for four copies of my latest CD, which I sent to him via the US Mail. I don't understand why you say things like this.

 

 

iTunes doesn't sell CDs in the USA, right?

 

iTunes Switzerland certainly doesn't sell CDs here. When someone wants to buy a physical carrier, he has to order in a shop like that:

 

http://www.cede.ch/en/default.cfm

[Cliftonb]

Commercially - I must say that I am 100% wholeheartedly on board with the series approach. Promotion won't be a problem if people had a central place to go to get the new material. It would have to be something other than the usual band/artist website (which I think are almost universally lame), but rather a bastion of awesome with regularly updated blogs and other cool art/media features that may or may not be directly related to music. The idea is to get people in the habit of looking to you for cool/funny/informative/useful stuff on the regular.

 

Production costs for the music would most likely be lower considering that instead of shelling out $200,000+ to record, manufacture, promote, and distribute a CD that may flop - an artist could test the waters with a few songs to see what people respond favorably to and continue producing what has the most impact.

 

Artistically - I'm with the series approach simply because I find the album format too constricting. An album doesn't live. its a relic long before its heard. There have been and continue to be amazing albums (my favorite bands/artists all follow the album format), but it doesn't change the fact that an album is a historical document. I prefer something that kind of grew and that people could grow with. Turning a big musical idea into a series that could morph with the times seems a bit more interesting than a plastic disc or handful of audio files. My idea for a series/media conglomerate approach is WAY more involved than what I described hear, but I'm currently not a liberty to discuss any solid details at the moment.

[flatfinger]

Richard ,

 

From your post around here I understand you to have a real job and a real life and real responsibilities.............. so ....................my sage advice ...................

 

 

 

Just get into writing the best songs you can , and ; BANISH the words promotion and marketing from your vocabulary . The currency is the song .......... communicating with the fans is done with the song !! what everybody needs is word of mouth, period .

 

Check the Link's ..........

 

 

 

http://www.musicthinktank.com/blog/investing-in-artists-consider-a-promotionless-to-popular-str.html

 

 

http://www.echolouder.com/unsprung_wisdom/2008/7/8/digital-music-cant-be-marketed-the-rewrite.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. , This strategy is code named operation Barry Manillow ( he writes THE songs !!)

 

 

 

Just write unforgettable songs , thats all !! , and don't forget those great melodies ( the secret is to remember tunes that no one has every heard before:lol: !!)

 

 

 

 

Albums are TOAST

[richardmac]

 

The idea is to get people in the habit of looking to you for cool/funny/informative/useful stuff on the regular.

 

 

That's the concept that I have an issue with. instead of looking to an artist for cool/funny/informative/useful stuff, I'd rather look to them for a collection of great music. If I can't have that, then yeah, maybe a good song.

 

I don't find the album format constricting for me, because I find it difficult and painful to write to begin with, so I'm never in a spot where I say "Darn, I have 23 songs and I can't fit them all on a single CD!"

 

Actually, as a music fan, the way I feel is that I'm sick of one hit wonder disposable music. I want a collection of music for my consumption. If one of my fave artists were to produce a song each month instead of an album each year, I'd hate it. It's like eating a bowl of potato chips, one chip per day. What's the fun in that?

 

But I recognize that this is just my opinion and that there will be people who feel the same as me and people who feel totally differently.

[richardmac]

 

iTunes doesn't sell CDs in the USA, right? iTunes Switzerland certainly doesn't sell CDs here. When someone wants to buy a physical carrier, he has to order in a shop like that: http://www.cede.ch/en/default.cfm

 

 

You are correct - I mistyped. I should have said "I sold copies of my whole entire ALBUM online via iTunes.

[daddymack]

as much as I dislike the eventuality, the age of the single is back. This si not to say that you can't release an entire 10-12 song CD, but why bother except to sell live at shows or via your own website? All the music services (well, not Amazon or CD baby) are geared to sell singles as downloads, not physical product. The reason is simple: zero cost of distribution, almost zero cost of 'warehousing' (servers cost a crapload less money than buildings), and low royalty payouts...wanna make money in the music industry today? Set up a sales site (not as simple as it sounds, I know). iTunes is extremely profitable. If someone could arrange to set up a decent* site for selling strictly independently produced singles, there could be some serious profit there.

 

*Most of the sites doing this basic concept that I have looked at were not well designed, hence the italicized 'decent'.

[richardmac]

iTunes sells plenty of albums. I think the biggest problem with albums is the price - it should be much lower. If you can get each song for a buck and there are ten songs, and you sell the album for ten bucks... then I think that's stupid. It should be more in the $5 to $8 range, so that buying the whole album is a "bargain."

 

The era of singles is back because you can buy just one song from any album - if we'd have been able to do that in the past, we would have. I know I've bought albums before and felt ripped off because three songs were good and the rest sucked. I'm glad we can now preview every song - I think that's a huge step forward.

 

Albums and CD's are two different things - you can buy an album on iTunes. You buy a CD at a store or at a show. And they're definitely still worth making to sell at shows.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

an album is certainly then of interest to the consumer when it is a concept album, e.g. a live album, or an album which has a continous concept one wants to listen from start to end....

[flatfinger]

 

an album is certainly then of interest to the consumer when it is a concept album, e.g. a live album, or an album which has a continous concept one wants to listen from start to end....

 

 

 

Todays music consumer ,after purchasing a concept album ( and,... after having an opportunity to preview every track before having purchased! ) will find that there are a few songs that are not to their liking ..... they will then tell us all of how they are suffering from post tramatic stress syndrom because the album had , in their view , "filler " and will then use the weaker songs (in their opinion ; clunkers) to justify heading over to the torrent P2P sites and proceed sticking it to the man .

[flatfinger]

 

But I recognize that this is just my opinion and that there will be people who feel the same as me and people who feel totally differently.

 

 

I totally understand your wanting albums like " goodbye yellow brick road " to appear ! I just don't know if were ever going to get ones like that ever again ...... The landscape has changed and great collabrative efforts like that from an ensemble of pros wouldn't be economically feasable now days ....

[tim_7string]

 

Tim, I agree with everything you said. But what do you think about releasing singles as a promo strategy? Is it more effective or less effective than putting out a full album once per year?

 

 

Singles as opposed to an album? Meaning, people could only buy the singles and there never would be an album to collect?

 

I don't think a monthly single would be the answer. Even the top artists release a single every three to four months, which keeps them in the public's mind.

 

For guys like us (basically, hobbyists who have a limited fanbase), I would think a single is a good idea but that a collection of great songs is still a good idea. Although an EP might be the way to go now (4-5 songs rather than 10-12).

 

Singles vs. albums...I suppose I would say a single once in a while is better than an album that may never come out.

 

To go back to the comic book thing, Cerebus was a comic book that came out on a monthly basis (more or less) for 25 years. But rather than keep back issues in stock all the time, the publisher/creator/writer/artist Dave Sim would collect several issues into collections that people could buy if they missed some of the storyline (or just wanted to read it all at once). The money from the collections was used to keep the monthly comic going, but they were a lot cheaper, since the color covers of the comic were extremely expensive.

 

A little of this, a little of that would be my plan. Put out a few singles, collect them at a later time. Some people will want just the one or two songs, others will want to hear more of what you produce.

[sventvkg]

I'm not releasing singles. That's absurd. What they are doing here in Nashville is dropping 6 packs of tunes a couple times a year or once a year for some artists. Keeps costs low and they can release a few singles off it every few months etc...I MAY end up doing that to sell at shows instead of making an entire album. ALL the songs will be singles quality though. I won't even think of releasing a {censored}ty song if I can help it Too much competition here for sure!

 

As a performing artist and someone who will get back to limited runs of touring by the end of this year, I like the 6 pack concept. Basically, it's an EP and I can sell them for $6. Makes it lot easier for a potential fan to buy and not hurt.

 

That said, there plenty of artists still releasing whole albums here but I think you'll see more and more moving to the 6 pack format. It's cheaper and easier and yes, they can keep themselves out there. We shall see.

[richardmac]

I'm not releasing singles. That's absurd. What they are doing here in Nashville is dropping 6 packs of tunes a couple times a year or once a year for some artists. Keeps costs low and they can release a few singles off it every few months etc...I MAY end up doing that to sell at shows instead of making an entire album. ALL the songs will be singles quality though. I won't even think of releasing a {censored}ty song if I can help it Too much competition here for sure! As a performing artist and someone who will get back to limited runs of touring by the end of this year, I like the 6 pack concept. Basically, it's an EP and I can sell them for $6. Makes it lot easier for a potential fan to buy and not hurt. That said, there plenty of artists still releasing whole albums here but I think you'll see more and more moving to the 6 pack format. It's cheaper and easier and yes, they can keep themselves out there. We shall see.

 

I wonder if the 6 song EP will gain any traction and become a new sort of standard. I hadn't thought about the EP format. I like that a lot better than releasing singles. I may just do that for my next CD... I could certainly finish it a lot sooner. I have two songs written, so hell, I'm a third done! LOL.

 

I like that idea - I think 6 songs is a good compromise. They'd better be six good songs, though, I agree. I do think that the current environment in the music biz has people rethinking the idea of filler, and I think that's a positive thing.

 

I just wonder about it on my "merch table." I have three full length CD's, and then I'd have this EP for half price. Unless someone were really really impressed, the EP would cannibalize the sales from my other CD's, I would think. Unless I lowered the price of my other CD's. In which case I wouldn't sell any of the EP's, unless I lowered the price on that. What's your opinion about that?

 

The other factor is that you can print and burn 10 songs as cheaply as 6 (after recording/mastering costs, for folks who don't have their own studio.) From a financial standpoint, the full album makes more sense.

 

Like I said, I have a hard enough time writing 10 songs I love, to begin with. 6 would be easier to get to, for sure. Hmm.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

One can of course always live somewhere in the past, albums, can even produce 78 RPM' or piano rolls.

 

 

Nevertheless the present reality is different, here an example how it works today, and this not only for the top selling hits:

 

- Black Eyed Peas's "I Gotta Feeling", sold over 5,561,000 downloads.

- Highest weekly sales record by Kanye West's single "Gold Digger"

- this record was broken by Britney Spears's "Hold It Against Me", which had first-week sales of 411,000.

- the record was broken by Lady Gaga's "Born This Way", with 484,000 downloads.

 

This are of course only the numbers of iTunes USA, not including the about 3500 other online digital sales shops worldwide who combined sell about 1000 times more music then iTunes. "Sell" is the magic word for songwriters.

[sventvkg]

 

I wonder if the 6 song EP will gain any traction and become a new sort of standard. I hadn't thought about the EP format. I like that a lot better than releasing singles. I may just do that for my next CD... I could certainly finish it a lot sooner. I have two songs written, so hell, I'm a third done! LOL. I like that idea - I think 6 songs is a good compromise. They'd better be six good songs, though, I agree. I do think that the current environment in the music biz has people rethinking the idea of filler, and I think that's a positive thing. I just wonder about it on my "merch table." I have three full length CD's, and then I'd have this EP for half price. Unless someone were really really impressed, the EP would cannibalize the sales from my other CD's, I would think. Unless I lowered the price of my other CD's. In which case I wouldn't sell any of the EP's, unless I lowered the price on that. What's your opinion about that? The other factor is that you can print and burn 10 songs as cheaply as 6 (after recording/mastering costs, for folks who don't have their own studio.) From a financial standpoint, the full album makes more sense. Like I said, I have a hard enough time writing 10 songs I love, to begin with. 6 would be easier to get to, for sure. Hmm.

 

 

Yea Richard. The thing with the EP from the record company's perspective is that it's much cheaper to produce and they can keep new fresh music in the pipeline almost continuously and it could help sales since let's face it, $5-6 bucks is easier for people to pull out these days.

 

For you since you work on and record your stuff yourself the only issue is about time. You can get 6 tunes done fast and have new music out there. As far as the EP canibalizing sales, I don't see that happening because if someone were into you enough to want to buy material they actually might want MORE material, thus you might have the potential to sell a CD AND a cheap add on, EP. As far as price goes, Many artists I know have been down to $5 for whole albums for a few years because that's what people have been willing to part with as a price point. The whole EP thing allows them to to produce the album quicker with it's 6 tunes and thus is cheaper to make and they can still get the same $5 for it.

 

If I were you assuming you make an EP, you could sell it for $5 and the full albums for $7 or $8 as a discount incentive.

 

Another thing to consider is attention spans..It seem to me these days people are just pressed for time and 6 tunes is the perfect amount of time because they can usually get through the record in a sitting before they are off again! Ya figure 20-24 minutes maybe? PERFECT!!

[DukeOfBoom]

 

I wonder if the 6 song EP will gain any traction and become a new sort of standard. I hadn't thought about the EP format. I like that a lot better than releasing singles. I may just do that for my next CD... I could certainly finish it a lot sooner. I have two songs written, so hell, I'm a third done! LOL.

 

 

FWIW, I was just talking backstage to a modern rock band touring nationally with Saliva and a few other guys. The band was called Seven Day Summons. They're signed to a smaller label with distribution from Universal.

 

I asked the band leader what the record company is having them do, and he said the record company is having them go into the studio every 6 months to record a 5-6 song EP, since the album is essentially dead, especially about the 18-30year old male demographic.

 

It was interesting.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

According to neurologists, the attention span of human is about 7 second.

 

 

 

 

Another thing to consider is attention spans..It seem to me these days people are just pressed for time and 6 tunes is the perfect amount of time because they can usually get through the record in a sitting before they are off again! Ya figure 20-24 minutes maybe? PERFECT!!

 

[richardmac]

 

This are of course only the numbers of iTunes USA, not including the about 3500 other online digital sales shops worldwide who combined sell about 1000 times more music then iTunes.

 

 

Where do you pull these numbers from?

[richardmac]

 

FWIW, I was just talking backstage to a modern rock band touring nationally with Saliva and a few other guys. The band was called Seven Day Summons. They're signed to a smaller label with distribution from Universal. I asked the band leader what the record company is having them do, and he said the record company is having them go into the studio every 6 months to record a 5-6 song EP, since the album is essentially dead, especially about the 18-30year old male demographic. It was interesting.

 

 

That IS interesting. It makes sense, I guess. Maybe we're about to enter The Age of the EP. We're already in The Age of the Single - Rudy is right. The single is dominating everything right now. Albums still sell but the single is king. An EP is probably an easier purchase.

 

I think two EP's per year would be good.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

 

Where do you pull these numbers from?

 

 

I work in the industry. Get EXCEL table and monthly reports from all different department of the music companies which are with us, as well numbers are part in meetings.