Members PDRMANT Posted December 1, 2005 Members Share Posted December 1, 2005 My mates say direct is the way to go for recording bass, but I am wondering if using mics on the cab and/or having a room mic to mix in could have a positive effect. I have an Ampeg cab with an 18 + 4x10 + horn powered by the tube SVT4 pro. Fender Jazz & Gibson ebo (short scale-and boomy).I am recording through a mackie mixing board onto digital minidisk. Transfering that to Cubase.Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 1, 2005 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2005 I think the ebo would sound bitchin miced up. You'd be getting that old Yardbirds / Them / Wyman thing happening for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 1, 2005 Share Posted December 1, 2005 Well, as far as room mics, I dunno. There's a story that Geoff Emerick was always trying to sneak a little room or chamber onto McCartney's bass, but Paul hated it and would always ask him to pull it off. But I've also read that about the time of Revolver, he started using a tube condenser (AKG C-12 IIRC) about 8 - 12 feet from the bass amp... but remember, they were in a very BIG room (studio 2 at Abbey Road). But for the most part, I feel that adding reverb to a bass part only murks up the bottom. I like a mic on bass sometimes, but I almost always take a DI feed too - unless we're talking piezo pickups, which I rarely bother with because I don't care for their sound. But plenty of bass parts have been tracked with only a mic on the cabinet, so by all means, feel free to experiment with things and see what sounds you prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PDRMANT Posted December 1, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2005 Cool. I think i will mic the cab as well as go direct. Why not. What kind of mic would do the job best? 58, 57 other? Also I guessI would just mic both speaker sizes and use what I need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EngineGuitarist Posted December 1, 2005 Members Share Posted December 1, 2005 i always take a DI off the bass and if we have an amp I mic it also. If i were you I'd mic a speaker in the 4x10 cab and also mic the 18. just watch for phase issues. I like putting a condenser on the big speakers for bass cabs, something like a U87 (too expensive? use a knock off) and having an RE20 on a 10" speaker. but as they say, YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 1, 2005 Members Share Posted December 1, 2005 I'll be the minority opinion here...I love micing the cabinet. Direct is fine, it's easy, it's solid sounding....but it doesn't sound like a cabinet. If you love the sound of your bass coming from the cabinet, mic it. I think it sounds freakin' great. I also love a tiny bit of leakage from the drums, although I don't really like the bass cabinet leaking into the drum mics all that much. I don't even bother with a direct signal because I love the cabinet sound so much. If a bass player has developed a great sound with a cabinet, I want to capture that. I love that sound. But again, I'm in the minority. Most engineers don't even bother with the cabinet nowadays, and I get a lot of bass players reacting with surprise: "You *want* me to bring my cab in? Sure...!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 1, 2005 Members Share Posted December 1, 2005 Originally posted by PDRMANT Cool. I think i will mic the cab as well as go direct. Why not. What kind of mic would do the job best? 58, 57 other? Also I guessI would just mic both speaker sizes and use what I need. Didn't see this. I use a Rode NT2 if the bottom end is wompin', and an Audio-Technica AT4060 if it's not. On the cheap...I've used an EV257A, which is not too bad, and a Sennheiser 421, which isn't bad either. But I strongly prefer the Rode or the Audio-Technica. These two mics always get compliments from the bass players: "Great! That sounds like me." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackcheez Posted December 1, 2005 Members Share Posted December 1, 2005 But I've also read that about the time of Revolver, he started using a tube condenser (AKG C-12 IIRC) about 8 - 12 feet from the bass amp... I used to always notice that if I walked around at rehearsal (I play bass) there would be a sweet sounding spot someplace in the room. I've yet to find it with a mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted December 1, 2005 Moderators Share Posted December 1, 2005 Originally posted by jackcheez I used to always notice that if I walked around at rehearsal (I play bass) there would be a sweet sounding spot someplace in the room. I've yet to find it with a mic. Your quote and your home location reminded me of the tone they got on the Sublime albums. Now that's an SVT in a room... miced. I could be wrong, but whenever I've miced up an SVT in a room... that's what I hear. On a good day. Withthe sub switch on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jackcheez Posted December 1, 2005 Members Share Posted December 1, 2005 Now that's an SVT in a room... miced. Yep, an SVT. When I say I've yet to find it with a mic, that's in other peoples studios. All the times I recorded with bands in studios all over the place, bass never seemed worth much effort to anybody except me. That's one of the reasons I have a studio now. Got tired of people saying...you have to do this...you can't do that... What a bunch of gob{censored}es. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PDRMANT Posted December 1, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 1, 2005 All the times I recorded with bands in studios all over the place, bass never seemed worth much effort to anybody except me. Im right there with you, Jack. Guitarists get all freakin day for tweeking and refining! They are so sensitive, too. Drums take a while & vocals, sheesh, like those are important Let them mic bass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted December 1, 2005 Members Share Posted December 1, 2005 Most of the classic bass sounds on my favorite albums have been mic'd. Not all - there are plenty of examples of excellent DI bass - but there is something special a speaker and mic can add. But for me personally - I haven't had success with mic'ing a cab. I intend to revisit this, because I think it's worth pursuing. I like to record at comfortable levels in the same room. That appears to be mistake with bass, because the acoustic energy coming from the strings competes with the speaker. I found the mic pickups up unwanted string rattle and room sound - so be prepared to run you cabinet in a seperate room from your bass and head. If there is any weakness in your speaker cab, your sound will suffer. Cabinet rattles suck. Room rattles suck. (Not a problem for me, because my concrete rooms can't rattle - but some gear in the room can rattle and should be removed). In a house, you can find that windows and things start rattling on certain notes. Abbey Road Studio 2 would be nice. Some bass players I respect, like Carol Kaye, only like a mic'd cab, like an Ampeg. Other bass players I respect, like Leeland Sklar, basically go DI through a GT Brick for example. Many more like to mix mic and DI. There can be phase issues you need to address with that. McCartney is a mystery. He gets fantastic bass tones, and he often speaks about going DI, but engineers like Emerick talk about cabs and maybe using speakers as microphones. My ears tell me that classic McCartney stuff has some amazing low end going on that I think can only come from a great room. Some people use the mic for midrange, and the DI for full range. Others use the mic for lows, and the DI for midrange. I think the idea of using the mic for the deep low end is approach I want to try - so I can low pass it and avoid the stuff I don't like about cabs. I think I can see why they used Studio 2 for that - large dimensions that wouldn't have nodes in the audio range. I'd also like to try emulating this with a custom made impulse in a convolution reverb. Maybe create a short tail from some low passed white noise - just something so DI isn't totally in your face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted December 2, 2005 Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 My method, which works wonderfully and is extremely efficient timewise, is to track direct, and when I'm doing post and mixing, I route the DI track through a reamp interface and dial in the perfect tone for the finished tracks, rather than spend endless time dialing in a guesswork amp tone. On average, I use the DI about probably 25% of the time, generally going for a nice mic'd cab sound. Once I have the tone I want dialed in, I track it. Typically my setup is a 62 Ampeg B-15-N loaded with a 150W EV force series 15" in an iso booth. An AKG C4000B in omni, or if I want more nasty, an NTK through usually a TL Audio C-1. Once tracked, I nudge the mic'd track back to time align with the DI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted December 2, 2005 Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 That sounds like a really smart way to do it. That would get around the acoustic problems I found - and would allow relatively low volume recording to minimise cab rattles and things. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted December 2, 2005 Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 You definitely don't need to be loud to be huge sounding, and that goes for electric guitar as well. Low wattage amps (I'm talking in the .25-5 watt range) can get some screaming tones at unbelievably low volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted December 2, 2005 Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 Preaching to the converted here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted December 2, 2005 Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 I'll preach to whoever's in the church..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 2, 2005 Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 Originally posted by Kiwiburger Preaching to the converted here Yeah, I'd think so since you have a Pignose for an avatar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kiwiburger Posted December 2, 2005 Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 Yep - that's my tweed Pignose - fairly rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seaneldon Posted December 2, 2005 Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 when i mic a bass amp its usually an AT4033 (the only thing i use that mic for) or an EV RE20. i like a high headroom solid state preamp here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members where02190 Posted December 2, 2005 Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 Originally posted by seaneldon when i mic a bass amp its usually an AT4033 (the only thing i use that mic for) or an EV RE20. i like a high headroom solid state preamp here. Try that 4033 on percussion(as a room/overhead) or vocals, its a great mic, and very versatile. They also work excellent on pianos, and it's what we used on Sarah Morrow's Trombone on the "Stnadard and other Stories..." CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 2, 2005 Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 I like 4033s for guitar cabs, but am not the biggest fan of them on vocals. I'm using either a Rode NT2 or an AT4060 for bass cabs most of the time, depending on what else I may be using those mics for and what kind of sound I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seaneldon Posted December 2, 2005 Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 I have a lot of mics that I'd much rather use on those applications. An M249 is my room mic and an ELUX251 is my vocal mic, or vice versa. I use the Peluso 22 251 on piano. There's just better options for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PDRMANT Posted December 2, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 Originally posted by where02190 My method, which works wonderfully and is extremely efficient timewise, is to track direct, and when I'm doing post and mixing, I route the DI track through a reamp interface and dial in the perfect tone for the finished tracks, rather than spend endless time dialing in a guesswork amp tone. Whoa, thats over my head and through the woods. I think I understand the concept, but not the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PDRMANT Posted December 2, 2005 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2005 Some people use the mic for midrange, and the DI for full range. Others use the mic for lows, and the DI for midrange. I think the idea of using the mic for the deep low end is approach I want to try - so I can low pass it and avoid the stuff I don't like about cabs. ------------------------------- I think I will try this technique, as I would love to find a more unique sound for the tunes we are recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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