Members richardmac Posted March 17, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 LOL! Hey, here's an idea. Put a b5 and a b9 in every chord in the song, then change the lyrics to something about your family..... ....fx'd!!!!! You know, that's too close to the truth to be funny! I still think it's funny, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 Nice try, but that's not what we're talking about. You keep trying to pull every topic around to getting signed by a major label. Maybe when your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail, but I was addressing the idea that one can 'make it' on DIY internet marketing alone. I happen to agree with you, you pretty much can't do it without the clout of a major label, which is my point. But the two examples you gave are not people who gained success without a label and it's marketing arm, which was the the examples I was asking for. They may have gotten a label's attention, but that isn't the same as being Corey Smith or Lily Allen. What's a person's idea of "Making it"? That's the issue here. I can tell you there are SLEW of singer songwriters out there touring their asses off selling records, getting small licensing, and making it..I mean enough to have a house, car, pay bills, gas, record their next album...All without any label support...Is this making it in today's music business? I say YES...What do you think? Check out Jay Nash, Tony Lucca, Matt Duke, and I could go on and on... An interesting sidenote: I spoke to a good friend of mine yesterday who I had been out of touch with for 4 years. He told me he has given his company 20 years, was running Marketing for the entire US and than his company was bought out. The new owners slashed his pay by $50K a year, eliminated his position and tried to move him to a lesser marketing position. He ended up going back to running Latin America Sales which means he works out of Mexico and lives on planes. He's gone all week leaving his wife and kids home without him. This is something he did for many years and he thought he had moved beyond it plus it's not as easy to do as it was when he was in his 20's/early 30's...Anyway, he told me when they cut his pay and position, he was offered positions in other companies all over the US for President of the company even but the $$ just wasn't right so ultimately his company had him by the balls. He had to take the hit and go build up Latin America all over..Eventually he won't be able to do it anymore and then he will be out on his ass...That's what you get for busting your ass 20 years for someone else...{censored}ed. MY Grandfather told me, "Never trust your living to another man" He knew you're going to get {censored}ed at some point. The best you can hope for is you don't die before you make it to a poverty level SS, and small retirement. So even if I weren't a musician I certainly never planned on a job. Seen too many good people get downsized, layed off and screwed with no options in their 50's....That's my experience anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 I say YES...What do you think? Well, in a perfect world, my idea of "making it" sans major label would be earning the same money and attention a major label could get for you. But I know that isn't going to happen in this current iteration of the music biz. So we're left with each person deciding for himself what 'making it' means. For me, if I couldn't at least replace what I make at a day job, it wouldn't be 'making it', but for others, it may well be. By the way, not making it financially in music doesn't mean I enjoy it any less or love it any less. It just means I've resigned to being a part timer and I'm okay with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 17, 2011 Members Share Posted March 17, 2011 Right on and I get ya Blue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 18, 2011 Members Share Posted March 18, 2011 your voice may sound like a dying animal! So, you've heard me sing, then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 18, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 18, 2011 Bob is right in a sense, but there is indeed less money to be made by indie artists today. My book actually comments on some of the promises offered by Bob's books and similar "independent music promotion" books. When I started researching the topic, I saw endless books and articles saying things like "Sell 50,000 worth of CD's annually" and other such nonsense. This is what made me focus exclusively on reachable goals that had nothing to do with profit (but of course, could turn into it).Bob is a guru in his field, but remember, it's also his business to butter you up and make you think you can do anything, when in reality, your voice may sound like a dying animal! Can you tell us, how is your material different than Bob's? I don't mean whether it butters people up or not, I'm talking about the content. I looked at your outline on your website and you cover some of the sound ground he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 18, 2011 Moderators Share Posted March 18, 2011 So, you've heard me sing, then!maybe not, but apparently he has heard me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted March 19, 2011 Members Share Posted March 19, 2011 There weren't any formulas that worked like clockwork in the heyday of the Industry ; Thus , you can pretty much bet the farm that there are none now !!! Baker is just a charlatan . {censored} him:mad:........ Without a reach-around . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members S.L.B. Posted March 27, 2011 Members Share Posted March 27, 2011 Baker is a smart guy. Smart enough to know what to say to sell his ebooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 Baker is a smart guy. Smart enough to know what to say to sell his ebooks. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 Baker is a smart guy. Smart enough to know what to say to sell his ebooks. Wait...you mean you can't just download the whole book for free on the internet, and then write him a nice letter telling him to quit whining and get with the "new paradigm" business model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Westorbust7 Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 I thought making money was a good thing? He found a market and exploited it. Isn't that what business is all about? I hear you can make a million dollars in your spare time from that guy on tv at 2 am. Why is a business of selling ebooks to aspiring "________" (insert title here) bad? Is it because he is taking advantage of people willing to chuck it all to follow their dreams? Sure he is. I thought that was ok? That's business 101. Somebody has to lose for someone to win. My understanding is that when you create wealth, you aren't taking from somebody else, so why begrudge Bob is ebooks? Kudos to him for finding a niche to make a buck, or conversely, He's taking advantage of those willing to give him a few bucks to follow their dreams by selling snake oil. Which is it? Probably a little of both. Everyone wants to believe they can be successful. There's a billion dollar industry selling hope to the hopeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ermghoti II Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 That applies to the stated purpose of this forum in what way? The thread asks whether Baker has point, not whether he turns a profit duping the gormless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 Kudos to him for finding a niche to make a buck, or conversely, He's taking advantage of those willing to give him a few bucks to follow their dreams by selling snake oil. Which is it? Probably a little of both. Everyone wants to believe they can be successful. There's a billion dollar industry selling hope to the hopeless. Yes but me, Blue and others aren't part of that hopeless group, so we will continue to say he's full of {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 28, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 I wouldn't say he's full of {censored}. Some of his advice is very good. I'd rate his advice as being better than what you can find on your own via Google. I'll say this for him - he's putting strategies out there and some of them might work. As opposed to us - we just hang out in the forums and say NOTHING will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 I don't say nothing will work. I happen to know things do work. It's a matter of cost-benefit. For most on these boards it's way too work for too little reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cliftonb Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 I'm pretty much with Baker on this one. I can't speak for everyone but the current landscape is allowing the opportunity to do things that wouldn't have been possible for me years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 I'm pretty much with Baker on this one. I can't speak for everyone but the current landscape is allowing the opportunity to do things that wouldn't have been possible for me years ago. More opportunity divided by many more players though.... much easier to get lost in the crowd. It gets harder and harder to get noticed that way .... soon it will be "pay the fans to listen " land . Truth can be stranger than fiction !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cliftonb Posted March 28, 2011 Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 I was a fan eons before I seriously considered creating music myself. I know in gory detail how hard it is to get people to care. Personally, I ignore 99.9% of all the promo tactics and marketing gimmicks for artists that I encounter online because I'm always disappointed with the music itself, which is usually terrible. If it hadn't been mentioned or covered by my trusted network of sources it's off my radar - at that moment, at least. Sure, I see tons of opportunity in the current ("post-industry") music scene. It's also important to note that I am stupidly optimistic, given to all manner of absurd impulses, and have no concept of "impossible". I am, In other words, the last guy who should even be speaking on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted March 28, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 28, 2011 I don't even think it's going to be soon... I think in a way it's happening right now. When artists take out Facebook ads to encourage people to go to their website where they have their music available for free downloading, that's pretty close. I've bought a bunch of Bob's stuff because it's fairly inexpensive and saved me the time/energy/effort of using Google to do endless searches and try to find out the same info. And like I said I think some of it is pretty good. So I can't rag on the guy for that. I would also suggest that people who haven't read his ebooks probably aren't in a position to comment on how valuable they may or may not be. But we all can comment on the blog post I linked to, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted March 29, 2011 Members Share Posted March 29, 2011 I thought making money was a good thing? He found a market and exploited it. Isn't that what business is all about? I hear you can make a million dollars in your spare time from that guy on tv at 2 am. Why is a business of selling ebooks to aspiring "________" (insert title here) bad? Is it because he is taking advantage of people willing to chuck it all to follow their dreams? Sure he is. I thought that was ok? That's business 101. Somebody has to lose for someone to win. My understanding is that when you create wealth, you aren't taking from somebody else, so why begrudge Bob is ebooks?Kudos to him for finding a niche to make a buck, or conversely, He's taking advantage of those willing to give him a few bucks to follow their dreams by selling snake oil. Which is it? Probably a little of both. Everyone wants to believe they can be successful. There's a billion dollar industry selling hope to the hopeless. Hey, I'm not putting him down for making money. I'm merely pointing out the irony of charging money for a book that basically tells musicians to get over the money thing. I just think it's funny. He has some good ideas and some dopey idea. Nothing I'd pay money for, but if he can get other to, more power to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members S.L.B. Posted March 30, 2011 Members Share Posted March 30, 2011 The point not really wether he has something to say useful or not. It really is as simple as in his snippets, he's going to say something to make you want to read more. Sometimes it will be insight filled(or at least hint at it. Some times it will be inflammatory. If you want something helpful and free, I'd recommend subscribing to the Music Business Radio pod-cast. A thousand times more useful, and won't cost a dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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