Members connorpeak Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 So this fall I will be attending California State University, Sacramento. I applied with a Music Management major however I am considering changing to Business with a Music Minor. My reasoning is that Music Management might be too narrow of a degree. It might be hard to find a job right out of college with that degree. Also what if I decide that the music industry isn't right for me? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 You ain't gonna make it in Music business unless you are obsessed and nothing else will do. If that is you, drop everything move to Nashville and get into the Recording Industry program at MTSU or the Music Business program at Belmont. They ALL do their internships right there on Music Row and A VAST Majority of Graduates do get jobs in the industry because of the proximity to it and the connections made. Otherwise, Run from this business!!! Run FAST! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members connorpeak Posted February 24, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 I'm from California. Tennessee isn't my thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 I'm from California. Tennessee isn't my thing Then go to a school in LA. The point Sean is making is that you aren't going to get any useful internships in the industry in Sacramento. A degree in the music biz might have some value, but it's perhaps one of the most incestuous businesses on the planet- that is, it's all in who you know, and you won't meet anyone in Sacramento. A business degree is a great thing to have whatever you end up doing, so I'd go that route. Music minor? For what? It won't do anything for a career in the music biz, and really, about the only jobs you can get with a music degree are symphony gigs or teaching gigs. But if you want to work in the music business, go to where the music business is and to a school that can get your foot in the door while you're a student, because the chances of getting it in after you graduate decrease greatly. And FWIW, Nashville is a beautiful place, it's filled with music and musicians of every kind, you can buy a nice house for 1/3 of what it would cost in California (unless you want to live in Indio or somewhere) and the country music business is one aspect of the music biz that isn't tanking. It's also easy access to other East Coast cities like Atlanta, DC, Baltimore, Philly, NY, Boston, etc. You might want to investigate it before you dismiss it out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Inazone Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 If you read through the forums here and elsewhere, you may find that the most beneficial type of degree for pursuing a career in the music industry would be an IT-related one. I went to a two-year technical college, so I don't know the best way to split up a major/minor degree plan, but some combination of business management and IT coursework could prepare you for just about anything. Most of the people I know who got music-specific degrees ended up going back to school for something totally unrelated because the jobs just aren't available in "the biz" for experienced people, and less so for new grads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members [Animals2] Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 get a degree in engineering. keep music as a hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dancebass Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 My wife has held numerous positions in the music industry and still does to some degree. She got her degree in Communications/Marketing from a university in Florida. She interned for Atlantic Records during the last two years of college. She was managing a record store at the time as well. After graduating she was hired by Atlantic to work in there college marketing department. We moved to NYC and she worked at the Atlantic Offices at Rockefeller Center for a little over a year. We hated living in New York (for the small pay we were making at the time) so we decided to leave. We moved and she go a new job working with a music wholesale distributor. CD's and DVD's at the time. That business started to go south and she got a new job working for a local indie label that was somewhat successful. They didn't have the money to pay what she needed so she eventually turned to radio. It was the only industry related jobs available in our market that paid a decent living. Radio was NEVER her first choice. She is currently a Clear Channel Executive and she's doing pretty well. It's a tough business, but her degree in communications/marketing has proven to be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted February 24, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 24, 2011 Forget the music management degree...it won't get you anything, seriously. The business degree will defintiely get you further; take music as electives. CSUSacto would not have been my first choice for the mangement discipline, either.... the music program there is fine...but there are better music programs in NorCal.Also, as mentioned, as faras interning will be a dead end there unless you want to go into radio. Transfer to my alma mater, CSUN, or CSULA, CSUDH ...at least you will be in reach of major labels, major recording studios, major artist management companies, etc. when you are ready to intern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scafeets Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 Another vote for "anything but a music biz degree" here. Full Disclosure: I have a B.S. in Mass Comm and spent more than ten years working in management for major labels. That was back when the music business made money and hired young people – who got paid. When the business started to swirl the drain, I split to make much better money (with better working conditions) as a "civilian."And I wouldn't recommend the internship route. The whole concept of "getting in" and having connections, etc. is vastly overrated. Figure out what you're best at and what you would really like to spend 60 hours a week doing. If it's technical, get your technical chops together with a relevant degree. If you're strength is sales and marketing, go straight for the Mktg. degree and consider an MBA. If it's artist management, get a good education in finance. If it's really the music, well...get an education that will give you the day job to support your passion. Don't listen to the guys who are telling you to go all in, get a glamour-profession degree and then work for free. It's as fruitless as getting a J-school degree and think you'll be writing features at Rolling Stone in a few years. If you're interested in the music BUSINESS, then get business chops. The industry is desperately in need of good people from other, successful industries to show it how to reinvent itself. It doesn't need any more well-connected sycophants, go-fers or graduates of Music Business Programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted February 25, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 25, 2011 the advantage for doing the internships here is real-world experience, more than connections...there are no 'entry level' jobs anymore...they want 21 year old kids with twenty years experience.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members connorpeak Posted February 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 I'm planning on moving to L.A. after college to be closer to the industry. From what I'm hearing Business is the better route (which I thought too). I currently am a student intern at a place called Paramount Equity Mortgage. You may have heard their radio commercials (Paramount Equity. Lending with expertise....) if you live in Sacramento, LA, Portland, Seattle or Pennsylvania. They actually have a small recording/production studio at there main office (where I work) where I have had the privilege to help CEO Hayes Barnard record and produce some of his commercials. I also have worked with the marketing team and have experienced how they distribute and advertise using their radio commercials. I'm not saying its the greatest experience but it's a step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted February 25, 2011 Moderators Share Posted February 25, 2011 any experience is good...great experience is better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 I have a Bachelor's in Music Business (State University of New York at Fredonia.) I think it's good to get lots of opinions and then make up your own mind. So here's my advice. You need to know your strengths and weaknesses. Any degree in music business of any form, unless you have some fantastic internships, is going to require you to go out and hustle to get a job. Picking up the phone, rattling doorknobs, being very persistent. If that sounds like you, then a music business type degree can be a good move. Studying music at the college level will make you a better musician, period, so whether it's a major and a minor, it will make you better. But that won't pay any bills. You need to be a go getter. A straight up degree in Business will make it easier to find a job, period, whether in the music biz or elsewhere. If you are not the doorknob rattler and you are concerned about getting a job in a bad economy, this is a much safer degree. It's also fairly Mickey Mouse compared to some other degrees - unless you're going to Harvard, most business classes are pretty common sense stuff, with the exception of accounting and statistics classes which I found to be real bitches. My degree was pretty much a dual major. The regular marketing and advertising and other business courses were like high school. The music classes were awesome. Learned a ton. Freshman and Sophomore year I studied Classical and Jazz Guitar. I also studied electronic music composition, music theory, tons of other awesome courses. Loved every minute. College doesn't have to be about just getting a job. It can be about learning for self betterment. I'm a far better musician because of it. But if I'd gotten the business degree I would have gotten better jobs after graduation. I mostly ended up working in music retail and hating it. I ended up later going back to college and getting a teaching degree in Elementary Education, the only major just as easy as Business. Taught for 5 years, now I work on servers in education for a school district. Success in any job comes from two factors - being good at what you do, and busting ass at your job. Do those two things and you will accelerate beyond 90% of the rest of the people you work with in general. But the music biz is not "in general." It's a weird place where people will do lots of work for little money for the "experience." Know thyself. What has the best shot at making you successful and/or happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dehumanize Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 You ain't gonna make it in Music business unless you are obsessed and nothing else will do. If that is you, drop everything move to Nashville and get into the Recording Industry program at MTSU or the Music Business program at Belmont. They ALL do their internships right there on Music Row and A VAST Majority of Graduates do get jobs in the industry because of the proximity to it and the connections made. Otherwise, Run from this business!!! Run FAST! You described me to a T and I've been looking at MTSU as a primary school to get a degree since I am from Tennessee. However, I'm currently enrolled in another school and having trouble with general education required classes although I'm excelling in major-specific classes. I'm considering finding some sort of audio engineering trade school instead, but can't seem to find anything that seems legitimate. I'm confused about the whole idea of getting a degree and music and realize how useless it may be, but I can't imagine doing anything else. I don't really know what I'm asking here... just confused about what I should be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 You described me to a T and I've been looking at MTSU as a primary school to get a degree since I am from Tennessee. However, I'm currently enrolled in another school and having trouble with general education required classes although I'm excelling in major-specific classes. I'm considering finding some sort of audio engineering trade school instead, but can't seem to find anything that seems legitimate. I'm confused about the whole idea of getting a degree and music and realize how useless it may be, but I can't imagine doing anything else. I don't really know what I'm asking here... just confused about what I should be doing. My advice: get a degree in something you can make a decent living at and wouldn't hate doing and then pursue music to your heart's content. My biggest mistake in life is that I put all my eggs in the musician basket and didn't have a fallback position. I though the 'sink or swim' position I put myself in would be enough to give me the incentive and persistence to make me successful. But I learned that not everyone who finds themselves in a "sink or swim" position learns to swim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dehumanize Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 My advice: get a degree in something you can make a decent living at and wouldn't hate doing and then pursue music to your heart's content. My biggest mistake in life is that I put all my eggs in the musician basket and didn't have a fallback position. I though the 'sink or swim' position I put myself in would be enough to give me the incentive and persistence to make me successful. But I learned that not everyone who finds themselves in a "sink or swim" position learns to swim.I'm currently 23 and have been hearing this same advice since I was 16 and first started entertaining the thought of studying music in college. I've attempted to dissuade myself multiple times and to research a career that could be beneficial and interesting, while doing the normal teenage musician routine of touring and recording. But, even after 7 years, I can't seem to find interest in anything else. When you explained that "you ain't gonna make it in Music business unless you are obsessed and nothing else will do", that is exactly my personality. I do nothing but music and have no interests, or even social relationships outside of music. I thought I would 'grow out' of my fascination and desire to study music in college, but it's only gotten worse. I'm at the age where I need to make the decision or drop it altogether, and I'm having the same 'sink or swim' opinion you had. I can't imagine doing anything else, and I really tried to put it out of my mind. I realize the struggle I may cause myself, but I feel that regret could be worse. I'm not sure if I should be in a traditional 4-year university, in trade school, or on my own doing recording hands-on 24/7, or if I should keep it all on the backburner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 My advice: get a degree in something you can make a decent living at and wouldn't hate doing and then pursue music to your heart's content. My biggest mistake in life is that I put all my eggs in the musician basket and didn't have a fallback position. I though the 'sink or swim' position I put myself in would be enough to give me the incentive and persistence to make me successful. But I learned that not everyone who finds themselves in a "sink or swim" position learns to swim. Well see, I'm doing better than ever in the music business. I'm All in so to speak and I expect some of my songs to get cut sooner than later. But you have to be realistic about what you want and if you can achieve it. I will never do anything else unless I just get sick of music business and decide to open a cafe or something in 20 years That said There aren't enough hours in the day for all the musical things i'm doing so where the hell would I have time to do anything else for work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 I'm currently 23 and have been hearing this same advice since I was 16 and first started entertaining the thought of studying music in college. I've attempted to dissuade myself multiple times and to research a career that could be beneficial and interesting, while doing the normal teenage musician routine of touring and recording. But, even after 7 years, I can't seem to find interest in anything else. When you explained that "you ain't gonna make it in Music business unless you are obsessed and nothing else will do", that is exactly my personality. I do nothing but music and have no interests, or even social relationships outside of music. I thought I would 'grow out' of my fascination and desire to study music in college, but it's only gotten worse. I'm at the age where I need to make the decision or drop it altogether, and I'm having the same 'sink or swim' opinion you had. I can't imagine doing anything else, and I really tried to put it out of my mind. I realize the struggle I may cause myself, but I feel that regret could be worse. I'm not sure if I should be in a traditional 4-year university, in trade school, or on my own doing recording hands-on 24/7, or if I should keep it all on the backburner. Some people don't want a fall back plan because...well, they will fall back..There's a famous quote from George Clooney to his dad that he says just that to his Dad. Now for many, it's a really good idea but I don't see how you can get anywhere in music if that's your passion, if you aren't ALL IN? I just don't see it and everyone I know who has had success (And i'm meeting more people every day) is all in 24/7 and busts their ass. They make their own luck and success. It can be done but honestlyl first you have to have the passion but you also have to have the talent. In whatever you do, in the top few percent, talent-wise to have a reasonable chance (unless you are going for Idol or pop stardom-that's a whole different subject)..Most people who think they have what it takes don't and unfortunately they will not listen to someone who knows and will give them the honest truth, anyway! Anyway, my feeling is life is WAY short..Way short! No use playing it safe! Take chances, live, have fun and try to make your dreams come true. You can always get a degree when you are 40:) Then again, what degree is even worth a {censored}? Probably trade school is a better option for someone who cashes out on their dream..Dream big because this is the only life you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Anyway, my feeling is life is WAY short..Way short! No use playing it safe! Well, yes, that was my governing philosophy me entire life. Except that in reality, in some respects it isn't way too sort, it can be a long damn time when you're in your mid to late 50s, and you aren't in your prime anymore, you're competing with guys who are and you're starting to fall apart physically. And you realize that those hit songs you were hoping to write and at least get someone else to record never materialized, and that your medical bills and medication needs are increasing with no real way to pay for them. Your eyes are going to hell, your joints are gone, you're having digestive problems, and you still have to go work each day doing a manual labor job you kept all these years because it allowed you the freedom to come and go as you pleased so you could gig. And one day you can barely walk and they tell you you need a 65k knee replacement and suddenly all those crap jobs you took so you could be available for those 75 dollar a night gigs don't look like such a smart move after all. Because the fact is, artists are always emotionally involved with their art, and rarely ever want to do anything else. In some respects, we're like children. It's fun, it has some glamor attached to it, and it's emotionally satisfying. I feel the same way every time I play. I also feel the same way every time I climb onto my motorcycle and head off into the unknown for a week or two. I find myself wishing I could just keep going, see what's over the next hill, what adventures lie ahead. The reality of course, is quite different, but we as musician like to romanticize everything. The reality of motorcycling is much like the reality of music- it's not all that glamorous, sometimes no fun at all, and more often than not it's mind-numbingly the same each day. But as artists, we like to live in "What-if Land", and fill in the blanks of the unknown with our own desires and fantasies, in the same way that everyone who buys a lottery ticket sees themselves winning and living in a nice house with a nice car and no problems. Looking back on my life (I'll be 56 next month) I really do regret not at least getting my teaching degree when I had the chance. I was so convinced of my ability, my material, and my destiny that a fall-back position was out of the question, a waste of valuable time, and an admission of defeat. Now, I realize that that kind of thinking is about the same as saying that if I carry car insurance, I'll drive more carelessly, so it's better to not have it and trust that I'll never have an accident. Or if I use a safety line in mountain climbing, it'll make me more careless, so I'll skip it and it'll make me a better climber. In reality, had I become a teacher, I could have had all summer off to tour, and three weeks in the winter and a week at spring break. I can't think of any other jobs that allow you 14 weeks off a year to tour and still pay you a living and benefits. The odds of making a comfortable living playing music today are about the same as winning the lottery. The chances of a music career being able to provide for you in old age are nil for all but maybe the top 1%. And if you aren't there by around 30 years old, guess what? Your chances diminish rapidly. Even guys who write one hit song don't have the success they did 20 years ago, because a "hit" song now only has to appeal to a small genre-specific demographic. One last thing: I know lots of players, myself included, who somewhere in their late 40s-early 50s had a quantum shift in their thinking. You start becoming aware of your mortality, and that you maybe have twenty good years left. And you realize that there are worlds of things you've missed or missed out on, and after 40 years your spark for performing has diminished. I never thought it would happen, but the truth is, I just don't care about it the way I used to. I had older guys tell me this could happen, and I dismissed it out of hand as ever being a possibility. "It'll never happen to me," I said. "I'll NEVER lose my passion for music!" Until you do, of course. It happens to more of us than I ever imagined. I'm not saying don't follow your muse. I am saying that following your heart and not your head is a recipe for failure later on. We have both for a reason, and especially for guys like us, we need to really weight the logic of what we're doing with our lives and assess our chances realistically before we jump all in with both feet. There's nothing wrong with having a safety rope when mountain climbing. In retrospect, having that safety line could well have made it much easier for me to take more chances, knowing I had something solid to rely on if I failed. I'm living with my decisions; most all my friends are my age and going to Europe, spending months in Belize or Trinidad, or touring around on their new motorcycles. I have to leave in 15 minutes to go cut up pieces of wood and nail them together, and I'll have to do that until I fall over, because I don't have any retirement, and the demand for guitar players and writers diminishes each day as they get closer to 60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fatusstratus Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 This might be kind of an obvious question for the OP...or maybe not but Have you thought about WHAT you want to do in the music industry? My first thought when I saw the question was "maybe accounting" or some such. It's a portable skill and you could apply it to the music industry and be in the music industry...as an accountant -- but you'd have to ask yourself if that would satisfy you. Like when you say "music industry" does that mean you want to be directly involved in the music production or would you be cool with management or support or finance or law or all that other stuff that goes on in industries.Very few of the guys that work for Boeing actually fly the planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members matt greeno Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 I once worked and lived with one of the most passionate guitarists I ever met. He had this goal of making it in the music business, NO MATTER WHAT. He had a plan to form the ultimate bar band , find a girl singer with a golden set of pipes, take her down to Nashville, and live the dream. He has been pursuing this since 2004, when his best friend told him that he should really get back into playing music. Later that year, that friend took his own life. 7 years later, this guitarist continues to pursue his dream, and I really appreciate his drive and determination, as well as the heart. But he does not follow his head at all. In the time I jammed with him, he barely worked and put all his time into his music. I ended up moving out and taking on full-time jobs with my M.Ed. I do music on the side, when I have free time, and I at least know I can work and save up money if I need to purchase a top-quality synth or something. These days, I constantly hear him venting, saying things like "If I had the right vocalist, I wouldn't have money problems; this is taking a toll on my wallet every week I have to turn down work"...... There's not much you can tell some of these people, when they won't ever let up. But as far as you entering college, I second the idea of having a practical Plan B. There's plenty of people out there that majored in some form of Art, and they can only wait on tables and flip burgers. That life doesn't give you a good foundation or support. I can't see having such an uncertain or unstable life, but I can't see not following my muse either. Like I said, I can still write on nights and weekends, and not go broke. But I need to stress what all the others have said: BACK-UP PLAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 One last thing: I know lots of players, myself included, who somewhere in their late 40s-early 50s had a quantum shift in their thinking. You start becoming aware of your mortality, and that you maybe have twenty good years left. And you realize that there are worlds of things you've missed or missed out on, and after 40 years your spark for performing has diminished. I never thought it would happen, but the truth is, I just don't care about it the way I used to. I had older guys tell me this could happen, and I dismissed it out of hand as ever being a possibility. "It'll never happen to me," I said. "I'll NEVER lose my passion for music!" Until you do, of course. It happens to more of us than I ever imagined. I'm not saying don't follow your muse. I am saying that following your heart and not your head is a recipe for failure later on. We have both for a reason, and especially for guys like us, we need to really weight the logic of what we're doing with our lives and assess our chances realistically before we jump all in with both feet. There's nothing wrong with having a safety rope when mountain climbing. In retrospect, having that safety line could well have made it much easier for me to take more chances, knowing I had something solid to rely on if I failed. I'm living with my decisions; most all my friends are my age and going to Europe, spending months in Belize or Trinidad, or touring around on their new motorcycles. I have to leave in 15 minutes to go cut up pieces of wood and nail them together, and I'll have to do that until I fall over, because I don't have any retirement, and the demand for guitar players and writers diminishes each day as they get closer to 60. First things first. To dehumanize (the user,) 23 is yoooooooooooung. We ALL still had the fire at 23. That is not unusual. I am in some ways the opposite of BlueStrat. I too felt the same "I'm never going to lose my fire" but I was brought up by two school teachers and heard over and over again that I needed to have a career. It was hammered into me. I wanted to write my own songs and be a rock star but wasn't good enough, so I went and got a BS in Music Business, thinking that I could still be in a band but have a career in music. But it turned out that I didn't really want a career in music (ie retail or whatever.) And that fire I felt at 23 had diminished a lot by 28 when reality sank in - I was not going to have a career as a songwriter/performer. But I didn't go all in like Pat. I had gone and gotten the BS, and then once I failed in music retail I went back again and got a BS in education. Job was number one, music number two. Had I gone all in? The odds say that I would be broke right now and doing a little of this and a little of that to get by. Busting your ass and not giving up and working hard give you a better shot but it is still sucky odds and the odds say I would have failed. Do I regret my decision? No freaking way. I've got a good job with benefits and retirement, a great family, two story house, two cars, blah blah blah. I like my job and I am writing better music now than I ever did in my 20's. I would not for one minute suggest that everyone has to think like me. All I can say is that I am very happy with the choice I made and if I had to do it again I'd do the same thing. So not every oldster wonders "what could have been" and regrets not going all in. I sure as hell don't. Everyone needs to find their own path, but they need to do it with clear eyes and not listen to stuff like "if you never give up your dreams will come true." No, the odds are they won't. Be prepared to deal with that. They may. They probably won't. Unless your dreams are realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fatusstratus Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Everyone needs to find their own path, but they need to do it with clear eyes and not listen to stuff like "if you never give up your dreams will come true." No, the odds are they won't. Be prepared to deal with that. They may. They probably won't. Unless your dreams are realistic. I think one problem with "live your dream" from the get go is that "the dream" a lot of young musicians have is a specific dream of acclaim, fame, commercial success and all that. The problem with that is that it relies on the approval and action of other people - that's really a dream about OTHER people doing something; accepting you, hiring you, digging your art, paying this amount of $ and such. The classic guitarist Christopher Parkening has something to say on this QbcXE01pVUk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted February 26, 2011 Members Share Posted February 26, 2011 +100. No, +1,000,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steeltropics1 Posted February 26, 2011 Members Share Posted February 26, 2011 Like others here, I am in fav of you just getting the biz degree. I have several musician pals who did get their music degrees but ended up just gigging in various capacities. A few went back to school to get their masters so they can teach. Thing is that it is not super easy to get a teaching position as it used to be. (thats what I hear anyways). GL & hope you work it all out. Some good advice in this thread imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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