Members nmilos Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 I regularly record a couple of singers who have pronounced sibilance. I have up to $500 to spend on a microphone that would counteract this. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fromthesunset Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 de-esser? popstopper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alcohol Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 You have to have them sing over the microphone, not directly into it. I have a RE20 that's pretty good at avoiding sibilance. Also, while de-essing programs work, I like the MCDSP M2000 for de-essing better. I use it's automation capabilities to fix only those areas that need fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Antman261 Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 A pop guard can help too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CN Fletcher Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 A good ribbon mic [with a pop filter!!] can help a whole lot... something like a Coles 4038 is usually great for those kinds of singers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 In addition to the above, simply telling them not to hit their "T's" and "S's" as hard can sometimes do wonders. I'm sure someone's going to pop in here and say that this is horrible and makes them self-conscious and ruins the vocal performance...you have to know who you can tell this to and who you can't, sorta like a psychologist. I've had one or two vocalists that I've been able to tell, and it's made a world of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurfu Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 In addition to the above, simply telling them not to hit their "T's" and "S's" as hard can sometimes do wonders. Yeah, right... I told a guy that a couple of weeks ago and her just snickered and said "that's the way I sing, you can fix it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 Please read the rest of my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kurfu Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 Please read the rest of my post. I didn't mean to dismiss your post, sorry. You are correct in that some people just don't understand that they can't just spit into a mic and expect the engineer to work a miracle, and that they should be coached. However.... "Some people you just can't reach." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atabner Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 Yeah, right... I told a guy that a couple of weeks ago and her just snickered and said "that's the way I sing, you can fix it." Response - "Yes I can. Give me a $1000 and come back in a week. Alternatively, just hit your S's and T's a bit more gently, yeh?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paully Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 One of the more modern, technologically advanced ways of (pre) de-essing is to tape a #2 pencil to the front of the mic, running vertically, and directly in front of the element. Then place the singer directly in front of the mic. It breaks up the sss's very nicely, as they are directional. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SoundWrangler Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 One of the more modern, technologically advanced ways of (pre) de-essing is to tape a #2 pencil to the front of the mic... Personally, I prefer a #1 pencil... it gives me a softer, darker sound. However, for aggressive modern rock, I might use a #4 pencil. Of course, if you're after that "British" sound, ya definitely gotta go with an HB pencil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted February 21, 2007 Members Share Posted February 21, 2007 Personally, I prefer a #1 pencil... it gives me a softer, darker sound. However, for aggressive modern rock, I might use a #4 pencil. Of course, if you're after that "British" sound, ya definitely gotta go with an HB pencil. I use a felt pen. It really softens the vocals and makes them sound dark. Actually, I bought a Symetrix 528e vocal processor off Craigslist for $70 and have been trying it out when the singer is too sibilant. It has a desser built in and strangly enough, a tiny bit of that really makes a difference. I don't know if hardware dessers are normally used or not, but my little cheapo unit has saved me some serious time fixing sibilant vocal tracks. Especially female vocals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nmilos Posted February 22, 2007 Author Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Thanks to all for your input. I use a pop screen, have the vocalists sing over the microphones, and of course end up using a de-esser. Any more suggestions of a microphone around $500 that will not emphasize sibilance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 You'd be looking for a mic that doesn't emphasize those frequencies that have sibilance, which is why you've gotten suggestions such as RE-20s and R121s. I can't think of one below $500 off the top of my head, but someone hopefully can jump in and suggest one. For whatever reason, a lot of budget mics seem to accent the high mids (yes, I know, to a lot of people, $500 is a lot of money - it's a lot of money to me - but like it or not, under $500 is still considered "budget"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alcohol Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Some singers just have that sibilance come out of their mouths. If its there and its strong, no microphone will fix the problem. The EV RE20 or the Shure SM7 are under $500. I understand that Beyer makes a ribbon near $500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paully Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Some singers just have that sibilance come out of their mouths. If its there and its strong, no microphone will fix the problem.The EV RE20 or the Shure SM7 are under $500.I understand that Beyer makes a ribbon near $500. Right. Get away from the condensers. Hell, try a 57 or a 58 for cheap/good. I might also mention that pulling the transformer out of a 57 and running it direct really smooths it out. Nice mic for a woman's voice. As Alcohol said, at around $400 the RE20 is a great all-around mic. BTW, I wasn't kidding about the pencil trick. Try it. What will it cost? The price of a pencil. Best, Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 I'm familiar with the pencil technique for reducing plosives, but not sibilance. Those dynamic mics mentioned would be good mics to reach for. As you could tell by my first post in this thread, my attitude is that the best cure for sibilance (or just about any other concern) is to correct it at the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 I didn't mean to dismiss your post, sorry. You are correct in that some people just don't understand that they can't just spit into a mic and expect the engineer to work a miracle, and that they should be coached. However.... "Some people you just can't reach." Yup. You just have to try and figure out who those people are. If they're that stubborn, just let 'em fly and do the best you can to de-ess...on their dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I was The Funk Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Actually, those Nady ribbons (especially with some easy mods) are nice and warm with a clear, but not sibilent high end. The apex version (which is the same mic) can be had for $90. Its good before the mods too. Not as good as Coles, but also 1/10th the price, and pretty cool on some singers. I used one a couple nights ago and it was perfect for the singer I was working with. Got just the right sound with no eq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Paully Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 I'm familiar with the pencil technique for reducing plosives, but not sibilance... I find just the opposite. Plosives and other lo frequency stuff are more or less non-directional, and will hit the element's surface more completely. If the singer is positioned properly, the pencil disperses directional (mid-hi) frequences. As I said, I've used it with good results when all else fails.. short of strangling the singer. A pop filter (I double up on them from time to time), a mic with a hi-pass switch, or farther singer proximity are the best cure for those plosives at the mic, where it should be addressed. We aggree on that . I don't want to beat the pencil technique to death, but for what it costs, it's worth a try . Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 You just have to make sure that you get a decent cheap budget ribbon mic. I am not sure what those are yet, although the beyerdynamic comes close (it's about $600), and I keep hearing good things about the ShinyBox stuff, which is about $400. What you DON'T want to do is try and fix a problem by using a poorly-designed mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 I find just the opposite. Plosives and other lo frequency stuff are more or less non-directional, and will hit the element's surface more completely. If the singer is positioned properly, the pencil disperses directional (mid-hi) frequences. As I said, I've used it with good results when all else fails.. short of strangling the singer. So that's not an option? Thanks! I'll give it a try the next time I can't strangle a sibilant singer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alcohol Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 You could use a dentist drill and fix the problem at the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 22, 2007 Members Share Posted February 22, 2007 Is there some sort of special vocalist/pro audio dentist drill available? If I don't have that, I actually have to suggest a vocal coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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