Members :wave: Posted April 15, 2007 Members Share Posted April 15, 2007 I've been super pleased with these, especially for the price. They're on the bright side - too much so for vocals, to my ear - but they do very nicely indeed for acoustic guitar. Audiopile C-61 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keyrick Posted April 15, 2007 Members Share Posted April 15, 2007 I'm not much of a guitar player, just chord strums predominately. I have an old Ovation that I bought in the seventies and I can make it sound very good. I use an SM81 at about the 12th fret positioned @ 45 degrees towards the body, about 4 inches from the neck. Then I take a KSM 44 set to cardiod and place it between the bridge and the sound hole about ten inches away. Both mics run through an RNP. It sounds pretty darn good. I just bought a Taylor with the expression system and I haven't recorded anything with it yet. I know it will be different as the sound projection from the Taylor will be different than from the plastic backed Ovation. So when I do record with the Taylor, I will have to experiment again, probably using the same mics as well as the output of the expression pickup system. Burning three channels to later mix on an acoustic rhythm track! Wow, you couldn't do that 20 years ago! We'll see what works when the time comes. I may only have to use one track! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 15, 2007 Members Share Posted April 15, 2007 I agree. I understand how they can be useful to some people in some situations (particularly playing live), but I've never understood their widespread appeal. They're half plastic and sound like it. -Dan. Yeah, they sound plastic, not a sound I find appealing. No matter how good I am at micing acoustic guitars, no matter how good the equipment is, the best I can do is get a great sounding recording of a cruddy plastic guitar. Yeeeks, no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted April 15, 2007 Moderators Share Posted April 15, 2007 I just bought a Taylor with the expression system and I haven't recorded anything with it yet. I know it will be different as the sound projection from the Taylor will be different than from the plastic backed Ovation. So when I do record with the Taylor, I will have to experiment again, probably using the same mics as well as the output of the expression pickup system. Burning three channels to later mix on an acoustic rhythm track! Wow, you couldn't do that 20 years ago! We'll see what works when the time comes. I may only have to use one track! Good luck with your Taylor, mine's been back in the shop twice because of problems with the expression system. As for the Ovation, I think they work pretty well for those occasions where you need to take the lows out and make the acoustic into a "shaker," like on some country songs. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 15, 2007 Members Share Posted April 15, 2007 As for the Ovation, I think they work pretty well for those occasions where you need to take the lows out and make the acoustic into a "shaker," like on some country songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted April 15, 2007 Members Share Posted April 15, 2007 "Honestly, I don't think there's a damn thing I can do to make an Ovation sound good - I can maybe get it to sound listenable, but good... I've never heard an Ovation that I thought sounded good." I don't know what the problem is, I always get good recordings with my ovation. I use a Celeberty Delux, and I usualy put a mic around the 12th fret and one LDC at the body and move it until I get the depth I want. I have always gotten great results with it (and I don't use it for country music). But you have to consider the bowl size if you have a thin one it is of course going to sound thin. I have one of the bigger bowl models and it sounds great and I always get complements on it. Now I always get great results with a 12 string Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted April 15, 2007 Members Share Posted April 15, 2007 By the way, mine also does not sound like plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Keyrick Posted April 15, 2007 Members Share Posted April 15, 2007 "As for the Ovation, I think they work pretty well for those occasions where you need to take the lows out and make the acoustic into a "shaker," like on some country songs." Terry, I agree that on most Ovations, mine included, that the lows are de-emphasized, and you get more projection of mids and highs. Those mids and highs, IME, tend to cut through the mix pretty well on multi instrumental recordings that utilize keys, bass, electric guitar and vocals. They definatly don't sound all that good on solo or classical acoustic guitar recordings. They have a mid-high "Ring" to them that is not present on a non-plastic guitar. They have a purpose for certain applications, but I don't think anybody believes that an Ovation is a great all around acoustic guitar. There are some Gibsons, Guilds, and others that are closer to achieving that status. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halljams Posted April 15, 2007 Members Share Posted April 15, 2007 2 good cheap dynamic mikes for acoustic which people may not consider are the Heil pr40 and ..........shure sm57! These mikes sound better than alot of cheap condensers on acoustic, they are surprising in how they pick up the highs and still give you some meat, of course placement with in inches of the right spot is criticle due to the strong proximity effect of the dynamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted April 15, 2007 Members Share Posted April 15, 2007 I agree. I understand how they can be useful to some people in some situations (particularly playing live), but I've never understood their widespread appeal. They're half plastic and sound like it. -Dan. I also agree.. I had a client trade me some studio time for a nearly new Ovation, after trying just about everything possible (pickup, mic the sound holes, etc.) and being unable to get it to sound good, I sold it. A current band is using an older Martin that records great, but my last project had a Martin and a Taylor and we ended up going with the Taylor because it fit in the mix better than the Martin. I think the bottom line is to try different setups with different guitars. Simply saying "use two small condensers set here and here" won't be very helpful on certain guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 16, 2007 Members Share Posted April 16, 2007 I don't know what the problem is, I always get good recordings with my ovation. There certainly has to be good Ovations. I just haven't heard one. I can get a good sounding recording of a (bad?) Ovation, y'know? Or maybe it's just personal taste and I simply don't like them? I don't know the exact models of Ovations that I've heard, although one client told me that his brand-new Ovation that I was recording was $1200 (this is the one where he ended up choosing my Seagull for the track over his newly purchased Ovation). I don't know. I'm glad that someone is getting good sounds out of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 Maybe I am a lucky one:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mdog114 Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 I prefer good small-D condensers for acoustic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 17, 2007 Members Share Posted April 17, 2007 Maybe I am a lucky one:) Yeah, you could run out and play the lottery or read "The Secret" and manifest a beach cottage on the Caribbean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EngineGuitarist Posted April 18, 2007 Members Share Posted April 18, 2007 do you guys find that there is a certain sound, perhaps a particular song referenced quite alot by people you record? maybe if you do more of one genre, its a sound in that genre that people love. just wonderin... i mostly do rock stuff and everybody always wants ziggy stardust acoustic guitars.....but that IS in conjunction with the instruments typically found in that scenario. It'll never be the same but, well u know.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 18, 2007 Members Share Posted April 18, 2007 do you guys find that there is a certain sound, perhaps a particular song referenced quite alot by people you record? maybe if you do more of one genre, its a sound in that genre that people love. I get requests for all sorts of things, so no, I don't happen to get any one thing over and over again. Someone will want a really compressed, distorted Beatles sort of thing. Someone else will want it as a texture, sort of like Jeff Lynne. Others will want a really gutty, dry, in-your-face close-miced thing. Others will simply want one mic 2-3' back. Still others want to sing and play acoustic at the same time and record the whole thing at once. It's whatever works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted April 19, 2007 Members Share Posted April 19, 2007 I play several styls so I have several acoustics to work with, and mic methods. I found that my ovation sounds very nice for most of the stuff I do, and I never hear any complaints about the sound. Maybe the general problem is the mic technique people are using with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I play several styls so I have several acoustics to work with, and mic methods. I think that is important. Remember "sources matter". So if you want the super wispy, mostly pick attack on the strings type acoustic sound, IMO you'd want to start with a thinner sounding guitar and then accentuate that by using a fairly bright or open mic or mikes with the HPF's engaged, and placed in a way to minimize bass while capturing the strum. If you want a big, thick bottomed flatpicking tone, you're not going to get it out of a small-bodied parlor guitar, but a rosewood dreadnought will give it to you right away. Mic choice and placement can help you accentuate or minimize a particular tonal attribute of a source, but they're not going to change the fundamental character of it. Sometimes the path to the tone you hear in your head isn't through a different mic or placement technique (as important as they both are), but through a different instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 19, 2007 Members Share Posted April 19, 2007 I play several styls so I have several acoustics to work with, and mic methods. I found that my ovation sounds very nice for most of the stuff I do, and I never hear any complaints about the sound. Maybe the general problem is the mic technique people are using with it. Just to make myself clear, I don't like the sounds of the Ovations I've heard in person (not miced or recorded). In fact, quite frankly, if anything, I may prefer their sound when I've already recorded them (with a mic/mic preamp combination that might be more flattering towards them as well as EQing them) to the sound out in the room in person. Also as I said before, they are popular guitars, and a lot of people like the way they sound, and I'm not being critical of any of them. And maybe they are some good sounding Ovations out there. I just haven't heard any yet. ~~~~~~~ I would also agree with using different kinds of acoustic guitars whenever possible, depending on what kind of song are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted April 19, 2007 Members Share Posted April 19, 2007 I understand, plus I think they are a love them or hate them type of guitar. Most of them have a thin sound (which I find good for a nice string attack style), but they are not good for the low end beefy tone. I am really enjoying this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lucky #9 Posted April 20, 2007 Members Share Posted April 20, 2007 Uh, I think we get the picture that you two guys don't agree on Ovations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members alcohol Posted April 20, 2007 Members Share Posted April 20, 2007 +1 for the Josephson C24. And they're ideal for drum overheads too. I have a lot of acoustic guitars here at my house, but the standouts for listening and recording are my Taylor 710 and Gibson Montana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members goldear Posted April 20, 2007 Members Share Posted April 20, 2007 I was checking out this site that has different mics testing. I don't know how useful it is for some, but for those who don't have experience with diffferent mics it is cool. http://www.studioauditions.com/jamroomsessions_home.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted April 20, 2007 Members Share Posted April 20, 2007 Uh, I think we get the picture that you two guys don't agree on Ovations. I thought we were having a nice insightful discussion???? What is wrong with that? My favorite guitar to record with right now is a 12 string Taylor. The thing sounds amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted April 20, 2007 Members Share Posted April 20, 2007 I thought we were having a nice insightful discussion???? What is wrong with that? My favorite guitar to record with right now is a 12 string Taylor. The thing sounds amazing. Yeah, that's what we were having!!! I think you're right with the love it or hate it thing. I haven't heard a bad Taylor so far...they all sound really great, and a 12-string really brings a whole different sound to the table. I've borrowed my friend's 12-string Taylor several times for recordings, just to get a different flavor. Wow!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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