Members Lucius Posted December 20, 2007 Members Share Posted December 20, 2007 Hey I don't know if I should get a power sub (prolly a yorkville one) to use when I am mixing. I suppose it would give you a better indication of where the bass freq's are. What do you guys do? Cheers, Lucius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ethan Winer Posted December 20, 2007 Members Share Posted December 20, 2007 For stereo, versus mixing 5.1 surround movie sound tracks, it's much better to have full range speakers than can get down to 40 Hz, than lesser speakers with a sub. --Ethan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 My monitors go down to about 32Hz, so I really don't feel the need for a sub. What type of monitors are you using - Yorkvilles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Neonfacelift Posted December 21, 2007 Members Share Posted December 21, 2007 A sub is handy if you use it right. I don't keep mine in the mix 100% of the time, but I do fire it up to reference the low end every now and then. They can kill your mix if you rely on them too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chris carter Posted December 21, 2007 Members Share Posted December 21, 2007 No sub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TBush Posted December 21, 2007 Members Share Posted December 21, 2007 NS-10's with a sub. I just couldn't get my low-end right without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 21, 2007 Members Share Posted December 21, 2007 I don't use a sub currently. I have ADAM P11As and Yorkville YSM-1 (passive) in a 9x12' room with four Mini-Traps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 21, 2007 Share Posted December 21, 2007 NS-10's with a sub. I just couldn't get my low-end right without it. That's because there really isn't much happening below about 100Hz with NS-10's. Back when I was using NS-10's (not out of choice - it just seemed that's about all any studio had for nearfields at the time), I learned to watch the speaker excursion on the woofer to try to gauge what was happening down low. It's less than ideal, but it's surprising how close you can get with that method. A properly calibrated sub would be very useful with NS-10's IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TBush Posted December 22, 2007 Members Share Posted December 22, 2007 That's because there really isn't much happening below about 100Hz with NS-10's. Back when I was using NS-10's (not out of choice - it just seemed that's about all any studio had for nearfields at the time), I learned to watch the speaker excursion on the woofer to try to gauge what was happening down low. It's less than ideal, but it's surprising how close you can get with that method. A properly calibrated sub would be very useful with NS-10's IMHO. No doubt- I remember keeping a close eye on that white cone! I might be in the market for an alternative pair of monitors someday- just to compare as I'm mixing. Any suggestions (he asked knowingly, awaiting the barrage of recommendations that would flood the post...)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 22, 2007 Members Share Posted December 22, 2007 Well, if there's a monitor you want to get for under $400, I know just the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted December 22, 2007 Share Posted December 22, 2007 might be in the market for an alternative pair of monitors someday- just to compare as I'm mixing Budget? For around $1K, IMO, nothing compares with ADAM A7's. But if you get a pair of those, I doubt you'll use them as the secondary reference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The*Ataris Posted December 23, 2007 Members Share Posted December 23, 2007 I don't mix with a sub, but you can bet your ass that I check all my mixes with one... Considering every playback system in the world now has a sub farting out something below 60hz, you have to make sure you mix will accomodate them. It'll surprise you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted December 23, 2007 Members Share Posted December 23, 2007 I have Mackie HR824mkII's, which theoretically can get down to 37Hz. But I still use a sub, with the crossover at 65Hz, so it's handling the lowest lows. I have basically two reasons for doing this, which others may disagree with: - It takes some of the load off of the monitors. Though they can in theory get down to 37Hz, I think it's a bit more theory than fact. And though they are relatively large for near fields, they are still fairly small speakers to try to reproduct down under 40Hz with authority and they probably will do a better job on the frequencies that they can handle well if some of that worst case load it taken off of them. The lower the frequency the more power it sucks up and the bigger the cone displacement required. - The lowest low frequencies are the hardest to get right in terms of room response. Having a separate sub, which you can place anywhere in the room helps a lot in terms of getting good response at those lowest frequencies. The monitors are pretty fixed as to where they have to go. I found that, even with a good bit of trappage in my room, that I got far and away the best response on those low-lows with the sub closer to the rear of the room and pointed diagonally across the room to the other corner (and 100 degrees out of phase with the speakers.) I think that this setup provides considerably better results than if I just dependend on the monitors alone. You have to measure carefully and be sure you have the levels set correctly between the two of course. But if they are, then you can get really good low end response and take some load off of the monitors so that they have more power to deal with what's left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ethan Winer Posted December 23, 2007 Members Share Posted December 23, 2007 It takes some of the load off of the monitors. Very true. Though they can in theory get down to 37Hz, I think it's a bit more theory than fact. No, it's a fact. I've measured (original) 824s and they do indeed go that low. --Ethan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted December 23, 2007 Members Share Posted December 23, 2007 If you do have smaller speakers and no sub, you should probably at least get very comfortable using a frequency analyzer on your master buss as you get ready for the final mix, and make sure that the response in those frequencies below your speaker's capabiltites don't look out of control. I spend a fair amount of time just pulling commercial CD tracks into SONAR and putting a frequency analyzer on the track and seeing what the spectrum looks like relative to what the track sounds like, so that I can get a feel for what frequency distributions sound like what. Many, many commercial tracks follow a fairly common distribution, often called '6db Down' I think, where the low end will hump up slightly in the bass guitar area, flatten out for a while up to the lower mids, and then start a downward trend at about 6dB/octave. This provides a nice balanced mix. If yours doesn't look that way, you may want to explore why that is. One thing that I finally figured out after a lot of this kind of thing is that the overall spectrum isn't as important as the ongoing spectrum. You can take one song that is very bright sounding and one song that is fairly laid back. If you take the full spectrum across the whole song in both cases, they may look almost identical. But if you watch them over time, the more laid back one has less high end most of the time, with just occasional peaks that cause the overall spectrum to look like the bright one, whereas the bright one will be high up top the whole time. There might be a single big cymbal splash or a single guitar or synth chord in the whole song that causes it. Anyway, if you know what a good spectrum looks like, you can get a pretty good feel as to what kind of low-lows you have, even if you can't hear them. You still probably want to verify the mix, but learning to see them might save you a number of iterations back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members M.I.D Posted December 23, 2007 Members Share Posted December 23, 2007 Mine goes to 30hz, I don't use a sub. Don't forget that still only few people own a sub, so nobody will hear the difference. However, sub are really cool, you feel like you have a huge big sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted December 23, 2007 Members Share Posted December 23, 2007 But the point is so that YOU can hear it during the mix, and know what it sounds like down there for people who are listening on good systems. Otherwise, you can have wildly out of whack low end and never know it, so that it sounds horrible on a good system. And you shouldn't assume very few people have a sub. Home theater is very popular these days and they almost always have a sub and lots of people listen to music on them as well. And lots of cars have nice stereos in them with pretty good bass response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members doug osborne Posted December 23, 2007 Members Share Posted December 23, 2007 It's nearly impossible for a consumer to buy a speaker system without a subwoofer these days. Go into any Best Buy or Circuit City (don't buy anything at CC - they will be out of business by this time next year), and all you will see are 2+sub, 5+sub, etc. systems. This still doesn't dictate that you mix with a subwoofer. It suggests that many of them will have better bass response at home than you do in your studio with NS-01s, Mackies, Adams, or whatever your choice of average monitors is. For this reason, we all have to consider monitoring with a full-range system. CDs, MP3s, etc., all have response down to 20 Hz or lower, and any professional or critical work must at least be checked on a system that will play that stuff. You can get there by choosing truly full-range speakers, or adding a subwoofer to limited-range speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 23, 2007 Members Share Posted December 23, 2007 And you shouldn't assume very few people have a sub. Home theater is very popular these days and they almost always have a sub and lots of people listen to music on them as well. And lots of cars have nice stereos in them with pretty good bass response. I couldn't agree more. And even if some people don't have systems that can reproduce it, don't you still want to at least know what is going on in the bottom end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blas Posted December 24, 2007 Members Share Posted December 24, 2007 We have Event 20/20's as our 5 mains and use the sub mainly during 5.1 project work. Otherwise, for normal stereo projects with stick with the L/R mains. This system in this control room, translates well in the outside world... and that's what it's all about, isn't it! Blas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TBush Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 might be in the market for an alternative pair of monitors someday- just to compare as I'm mixing Budget? For around $1K, IMO, nothing compares with ADAM A7's. But if you get a pair of those, I doubt you'll use them as the secondary reference... The answer is yes- as in "Yes, I'm on a budget":thu: 1K would be doable, though... I did buy spare tweets and woofers for the ol' NS-10's a couple years ago, but we'll more than likely expand soon to allow for recording/mixing different projects simultaneously, so I'll be in the market for a good new setup. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted December 27, 2007 Members Share Posted December 27, 2007 If you can swing a thousand, then yes, A7s are an excellent choice. I think they're the best monitors I've heard for under a thousand as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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