Members ElectricImages Posted January 17, 2008 Members Share Posted January 17, 2008 I have seen a lot of people use hardware compressors before recording vocals such that they have no uncompressed copy of the track to work with later. Is this recommendable in certain situations? Is it just that some hardware compressors have nice characteristics vs. software compressors? It seems so much is done through plug ins now, I am just wondering why I often see this done. I don't really see it saving too much on noise since you would be doing it post pre-amp anyways... I suppose a limiter could help to prevent clipping in the A/D process on instruments with really strong attacks, but I don't ever really see people compressing pre A/D on anything else... Opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members albiedamned Posted January 17, 2008 Members Share Posted January 17, 2008 I use a compressor during tracking just to prevent clipping. I turn the threshold and ratio both up pretty high, to make it act as a limiter. I try to get the average recording level somewhere around -10db, so that even with louder peaks I still have room. But the compressor is a "just in case" thing. If I want to use a compressor as an effect, I'll do that later on during mixdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I was The Funk Posted January 17, 2008 Members Share Posted January 17, 2008 I have seen a lot of people use hardware compressors before recording vocals such that they have no uncompressed copy of the track to work with later. Is this recommendable in certain situations? Is it just that some hardware compressors have nice characteristics vs. software compressors? It seems so much is done through plug ins now, I am just wondering why I often see this done. I don't really see it saving too much on noise since you would be doing it post pre-amp anyways... I suppose a limiter could help to prevent clipping in the A/D process on instruments with really strong attacks, but I don't ever really see people compressing pre A/D on anything else... Opinions? If you have a singer with a really crazy dynamic range it might help. But the best thing to do is get your vocal compressor sound post recording so you can fit it in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lawrence Farr Posted January 17, 2008 Members Share Posted January 17, 2008 Depending on the singer I sometimes use a little TLA50 tube leveling on the way in... Tasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bighud Posted January 17, 2008 Members Share Posted January 17, 2008 Compressing slightly going in can save you literally hours of comping. Especially if your singer is less than consistent on their dynamics. DON'T compress the crap out of everything, but a little can go a long way. I usually don't use it pre, in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted January 17, 2008 Members Share Posted January 17, 2008 I use a compressor to prevent clipping, get the levels a little bit more even coming in, and/or to color the sound slightly (I have an RNLA). Also, even if I do use a plug-in compressor, I don't have to compress as much, which means less artifacts. You can get a great sound either way, and I don't always compress vocals with a hardware compressor while recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TBush Posted January 18, 2008 Members Share Posted January 18, 2008 I use a compressor during tracking just to prevent clipping. I turn the threshold and ratio both up pretty high, to make it act as a limiter. I try to get the average recording level somewhere around -10db, so that even with louder peaks I still have room. But the compressor is a "just in case" thing. If I want to use a compressor as an effect, I'll do that later on during mixdown. Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 I don't use a compressor during tracking to prevent clipping, because most compressors do a really lousy job at that. But I use one for other reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 I don't have an external compressor, so the decision is very easy for me :-) But anyway, in this 24 bit world, it's pretty easy to live without one in a home studio where you are doing your own vocals. If you occasionally happen to be visited by the Rock God Mojo during a take and get a little wild and clip, it's just your own take you ruined, so it's kind of why spend money on an external compressor when there are always other things you really need and you could put the money there? In a professional situation it's your production time and effort (money) that's wasted, so probably better to be safe than sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted February 1, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 1, 2008 I use a compressor tracking vocals to shape the sound, i.e. as an effect. Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 I tend to go with one of two extremes when tracking with compression - either a light touch (2-3 dB of gain reduction and a low ratio of 2:1 or 3:1) to just tame dynamics a bit, or slam the snot out of the thing for a "sound" or "effect". Okay, sometimes I do vary between the extremes, but my point is that I normally don't tend to hit things hard going in unless I'm looking for a specific "sound". With compression, for all intents and purposes, it's practically impossible to "undo" it if you later decide that you slammed it too hard going in... I really don't use compressors as much to prevent clipping because I tend to leave myself a decent amount (-18 to -15 dBFS on average) of headroom when tracking and don't try to slam my meters / recording levels as close to 0 dBFS as possible. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 I use compression going in on most vocal recordings. Just a bit to tame peaks. Go to comp is my RNC. I also will use de-essing and even downward expansion on occasion since my preamp/channel strip has it available. Downward expansion can help a lot in radio spot recordings almost like a gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 If you track at 24 bits , you can afford to leave a few bit (12db) there for head room . I agree that a limiter would be more appropriate for this application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dean Roddey Posted February 1, 2008 Members Share Posted February 1, 2008 I use compression going in on most vocal recordings. Just a bit to tame peaks. Go to comp is my RNC. Just to keep it on topic though, he wasn't asking whether to use compression on vocals, which probably almost everyone does, but whether there was some reason it needed to be done with an external hardware compressor vs. a plug after the fact. My argument would be no, it doesn't, other than for limiting purposes. Or, if you have a system in which you cannot monitor through the DAW and so you cannot hear the compression and it's being used agressively as an effect and the singer needs to hear it. Otherwise, unless you make the argument that good hardware compression is inherently better than good software compression (which I kind of question), there's not particularly a need for an external compressor unless you are worried about clipping, and in the 24 bit world that's much more easiy to avoid without s/n ratio issues. And even if there's some $10K external compressor that everone would agree is better than the best Waves or Trillium or whatever software compressor, it's probably a moot point for almost everyone at that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Just to keep it on topic though, he wasn't asking whether to use compression on vocals, which probably almost everyone does, but whether there was some reason it needed to be done with an external hardware compressor vs. a plug after the fact. One word - sonics. Hardware comp / limiters are not always perfectly emulated by software plug-ins, and so if you're looking for the particular "sound" from such a unit, hardware may be the only way to nail it 100%. Don't get me wrong - I like, and use - comp plug-ins, but there are times when you may prefer the sound of a particular hardware compressor. Of course, you can always apply hardware compression to the track post-recording; it's easier with PT HD, but it can still be done with PT LE and other DAW programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 2, 2008 Members Share Posted February 2, 2008 Depending on the vocals, my mood, and the position of the moon, I may use a hardware compressor for light compression going in and then use a Waves RCompressor again during mixdown. Less artifacts if I am using two compressors, and obviously a very different sound when comparing one to the other. I don't need to use a hardware compressor going in (unless the vocalist is really erratic) because of the headroom I have, but it's nice to be able to impart some color and do a little bit of compression going in just the same. If I don't have a good quality hardware compressor handy, then I'd rather go ahead and record the vocals with no compressor and then use a combination of volume automation and plug-in compression to achieve the best vocal sound. Actually, I use volume automation anyway regardless (I like to call this "intelligent compression". YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GZsound Posted February 2, 2008 Members Share Posted February 2, 2008 I also use software compressors frequently. My main reason for using a hardware compressor is that I can get a great track recorded that doesn't need any extra compression or manipulation so it saves a ton of time. And I agree with Phil that a hardware compressor can give me the sound I am searching for. I may be old school, but I like to record the best sound initially to save time and hassle in track editing and mixdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 2, 2008 Members Share Posted February 2, 2008 Mark, couldn't agree more. It does save a lot of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators MrKnobs Posted February 2, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 2, 2008 I may be old school, but I like to record the best sound initially to save time and hassle in track editing and mixdown. +1 Terry D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amarule Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 I never compress on the way in unless the singer has such terrible dynamics that it is just unavoidable. Once it's printed there's no undo. You can always use the analog hardware compressor during mix if you want that sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RedCrow1973 Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 YMMV. I've seen Phil and Astro Ken use this. I thought I knew all the internet breakdowns a la IMHO & LMMFAO, but this is a new one for me. What's it stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RedCrow1973 Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 I never compress on the way in unless the singer has such terrible dynamics that it is just unavoidable. You say that as if dynamics are a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members amarule Posted February 7, 2008 Members Share Posted February 7, 2008 Not at all, dynamics are IMHO the essence of great music, but if a singer, or any musician for that matter, has so little understanding of them that they are peaking one minute then barely audible the next inconsistant from take to take, and staying within the same timbre, then I am have little choice than to use compression to keep peaks from overshooting. On the contrary, I rarely use compression, and when I do, it's more for tone than dynamic control. Far too much of the music today has the life compressed out of it for the sake of loudness. My approach is exactly the opposite. If you want the track to be louder, here's the volume knob. RedCrow1973, YMMV stands for "your mileage may vary". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary. Wish I could claim credit for coming up with it, but I stole it from my friend Fletcher from www.mercenaryaudio.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted February 8, 2008 Members Share Posted February 8, 2008 You say that as if dynamics are a bad thing. Good dynamics are good. Terrible dynamics is terrible. Another one of my quotes that you'll find useful enough to write down and keep in your studio. Glad I could have been of help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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