Recording drums: temporary acoustic treatment over drums possible?

[UstadKhanAli]

I'm sure that other people must be in the same boat as me. I record in a small living room, and I can't put any acoustic treatment on the walls or put holes, etc. in the walls or ceilings. But the relatively low ceiling wreaks havoc on the drum sound.

 

Short of getting a Whisper Room, is there any sort of method for putting something - anything - that'll help go over the drums? I'd love to mount RealTraps overhead, but I don't think it's possible to do temporarily (without drilling holes), but if you could think of anything that would help even a little...

[Majoria]

I'm in the same boat and there's no easy answer but there are answers. However they involve either making a makeshift cage with the top being your treatment (OC 703 for me) or a complete isolation booth and then the drums sound dead but at least no bad tones.

 

Here's a shot of my portable vocal booth, a few of these opened up (hinges, not fixed position) with some other panels on top to form a cave will do something if you can't make a permanent change to your place like me. You'll notice that I haven't covered the panels so I can remove the 703 for more ambient reverb as necessary when I use them as walls.

 

[WKG]

I've floated 2' x 4' 2" panels on boom mic stands over the kit before to help with low ceilings. I usually place them over the OH's.

[UstadKhanAli]

I've floated 2' x 4' 2" panels on boom mic stands over the kit before to help with low ceilings. I usually place them over the OH's.

 

 

What kind of panels did you float overhead? Is it dangerous? I mean, sure, he's a drummer and all, but I still don't want 'im getting hurt...

 

If I could somehow suspend some sort of panel or Auralex foam thing, sure, it's not ideal, but it'd be a helluva lot better than what I've got now - nothing. Suspending something as heavy as RealTraps, while I would love that, doesn't seem very safe, so it'd have to be something lightweight, I would think.

 

Thanks for both your responses (you and Majoria).

[Music Calgary]

QSC "Attack Wall" or QSC Gobos?

[Jimbroni]

I'm in the same boat and there's no easy answer but there are answers. However they involve either making a makeshift cage with the top being your treatment (OC 703 for me) or a complete isolation booth and then the drums sound dead but at least no bad tones. Here's a shot of my portable vocal booth, a few of these opened up (hinges, not fixed position) with some other panels on top to form a cave will do something if you can't make a permanent change to your place like me. You'll notice that I haven't covered the panels so I can remove the 703 for more ambient reverb as necessary when I use them as walls.

 

Hey thats a pretty cool design, but seriously you should come up with a way to cover em and still remove em. That stuff is nasty, you don't want it floatin around the studio.

[Lee Knight]

OK, I've got it. Build Majoria's tri-panel. Now use 4 small PA tripod stands. The kind that you set a little 1-12 and horn PA box on top. Use 4 female mounts on the corners of the tripanel.

 

Now you can unfold and lift the panel onto the PA stands then raise those into place. When not in use you've got a vocal booth. When not in use for vocals, fold it up and store in the garage. By looking at Majoria's it doesn't look like he intended his to be folded up but I think this would be a valuable design addition.

[Majoria]

The pins on the hinges are easily removeable since I took them out and sanded them a little. That way I have panels that I can place anywhere also.

[WKG]

What kind of panels did you float overhead? Is it dangerous? I mean, sure, he's a drummer and all, but I still don't want 'im getting hurt... If I could somehow suspend some sort of panel or Auralex foam thing, sure, it's not ideal, but it'd be a helluva lot better than what I've got now - nothing. Suspending something as heavy as RealTraps, while I would love that, doesn't seem very safe, so it'd have to be something lightweight, I would think. Thanks for both your responses (you and Majoria).

 

Rigid fiberglass from a local SPI International and put it in some the DIY bags from here, http://www.readyacoustics.com/

 

Move them around where you want them. They are not heavy at all, I could probably use a 4" thick panel with the mic stands.

 

[UstadKhanAli]

Okay, thanks. That's kind of the idea that I had in mind - something that can float over the overhead mics, ideally.

 

I think Ethan might have something to say about that Readyacoustics link, though. Joel from ReadyAcoustics has taken some uncalled for swipes at Ethan in other forums as well.

 

http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com/Products/Audimute-Panel-Fabric-Cover__-aste-AMP-FC-aste-.aspx

[WKG]

 

Okay, thanks. That's kind of the idea that I had in mind - something that can float over the overhead mics, ideally. I think Ethan might have something to say about that Readyacoustics link, though. Joel from ReadyAcoustics has taken some uncalled for swipes at Ethan in other forums as well. http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com/Products/Audimute-Panel-Fabric-Cover__-aste-AMP-FC-aste-.aspx

 

 

It has worked great for me and is easily portable.

 

I don't understand why Ethan would have any problem with it at all. Joel has excellent service, an excellent reasonably priced product and is a great guy to boot. I have been extremely please with the treatment, it is by far one of the best things I have ever done for improving the quality of my recordings.

[mrbrown49]

 

Hey thats a pretty cool design, but seriously you should come up with a way to cover em and still remove em. That stuff is nasty, you don't want it floatin around the studio.

 

 

+1. If that stuff starts to pull apart, you really don't want to be breathing that in, or handling it with bare hands either.

[Jimbroni]

 

It has worked great for me and is easily portable. I don't understand why Ethan would have any problem with it at all. Joel has excellent service, an excellent reasonably priced product and is a great guy to boot. I have been extremely please with the treatment, it is by far one of the best things I have ever done for improving the quality of my recordings.

 

 

Joel called out Ethan to some sort of acoustic duel, saying his product is better than Ethan's and that Ethan was spreading misinformation or something. It was uncalled for, considering all that guy has got is covers. But hey they are easy to use covers so whatever.

[WKG]

 

Joel called out Ethan to some sort of acoustic duel, saying his product is better than Ethan's and that Ethan was spreading misinformation or something. It was uncalled for, considering all that guy has got is covers. But hey they are easy to use covers so whatever.

 

 

I do remember something a few years back...I seem to remember it was as much about possible confusion over names, Ethan's Real traps and Joel's Ready traps... It never made any sense to me...

 

I suppose when you have several similar web based businesses and alot of the common target market found in the same few discussion forums there's alway's potential for conflict. I think Ethan's products are excellent, although I haven't used them. Joel has much more than just bags as well. Just get what works and fits your budget. Both sites have specs. I got the bags because I picked up the fiberglass at a good price and didn't want to deal with the hassle of covering and figuring out how to hang the things. Joel was great to work with.

[D_Young]

Majoria,

I came accross your DIY vocal booth in this thread

And wanted to see if I could ask you a couple of questions. It looks like you used 6 feet of insulation in each section and they look to be 7 feet tall. Was wondering if the insulation was 2" or 4" thick and if those are 1x2 or 1x4 boards you are using for the frames? Also, with the hinges holding the sections together and not "feet" or "stands" on the bottom, do they still stand up pretty stable since they are hinged together? By the way, awesome looking job on it and thank you very much in advance for any help you can provide. That is exactly what I am wanting to build and your is the only one I've come accross that is exactly like that.

[UstadKhanAli]

Not for drums, but for vocals, I am using two MiniTraps RealTraps to surround the mic, and then a packing blanket that goes over it and down the crack left between the two RealTraps in the back. This seems to work well.

 

For drums, I still haven't done anything because anything that I think of does not seem to be safe at all. I surround the drums with four RealTraps and then have a bunch of packing blankets suspended by mic stands. It's not ideal, but it's better than nothing, and I'm getting good drum sounds.

[CN Fletcher]

For drums in a living room like that I would suggest two things... the first be "diffusion" and not absorption, the second would be to use "underheads" as opposed to "overhead mics".

 

First - diffussion... the easiest diffusor to make at home is a "random diffusor". This is where you get a sheet of plywood [doesn't have to be overly heavy... 1/4" "luan" will work] and some 2x4 stud. Cut pieces of the stud into random shapes and sizes [no two the same size or shape... pretty easy to do] and then "glue and screw" them in no particular order to the luan.

 

If its a rental apartment you'll have to find a way to suspend this with a free floating frame [which you can build from 2x4 stud as well]... the frame is basically a box that goes from floor to ceiling [use "X" cross bracing with the center tied for rigidity] and then attach the luan to the free standing frames.

 

Depending on size you can either attach it with screws or chain if you want to have the frames wider than the luan is long... if using chains add some extra wood around the holes so the luan doesn't tear... you'll also want to make "base feet" for the frames so they don't fall in on the drummer.

 

If you don't want to do frames... find ceiling stud, screw in some hooks and hang the "random diffusor" that way... you'll probably want to plaster the holes when you move out but that isn't too terrible a job.

 

This will have the sound "bounce around" the room in no particular direction and will help the room not sound "boxy" by clamping it down with absorption and a low ceiling.

 

Now... underheads. If you think of an isosceles triangle with the snare drum as the "top" point... place your two "under head" mics at the other two corners of that isosceles triangle 1/2 way between the ceiling and the floor.

 

Usually works like a charm... especially in rooms with short ceilings. You get all the stuff you would normally get in your overheads [a skidge less snare but that is usually not to much of a bother] but without the majority of the phase crap you invariably pick up with a flat ceiling to close to the mics.

 

Best of luck!!

 

If you need any clarification, you know how to find me.

 

Peace.

[Lee Flier]

Ken, RealTraps can be mounted on standard mic stands and they even come with straps for the purpose. I have 4 of them mounted on stands that way which I use in the room corners normally, but I'll move them in to construct a mini vocal booth. Or sometimes a drum "booth" with the addition of 3 or 4 traps placed horizontally on the floor around the kit, if I want a tight drum sound.

 

I agree with what Fletcher said about the "underheads" - even with absorptive ceilings, I rarely use mics in standard overhead position on the drums because the ceilings are low. I get better results with the room mics not near the ceiling.

 

Fletcher's suggestion to use a diffuser for the ceiling, suspended on a free standing frame, is also a great one if you're ambitious enough to do it. Otherwise you can use some sturdy boom mic stands and do what WKG does, with the RealTraps. The other good thing about RealTraps is they're slightly reflective in the high frequencies even though they absorb bass frequencies, so you don't get a muddy sound by using them.

 

Do you have carpet on the floor, or hard floors?

[John Busbee]

I've made pvc frames and put heavy comforters over them to knock down the cymbals in my old room; real low ceilings, about 6' 6"...thinking about it now, an easier work around would be taking some 2x4's and making tees and making them a little taller than the space so I could wedge them up, like hanging drywall by yourself, and putting the comforters between the 2x4 and ceiling. Quick and easy. It made the room a lot dryer, but that's what outboard gear is for...a lot easier to manage.

I also make bass tunnels with packing blankets over the kick and a chair, like a fort when you were a kid, to put a ldc out a few feet to get some added kick lowend.

Another trick for that is putting a cinderblock or something heavy in the kick to drop the fundamental down.

 

edit,

I ended up moving the overheads(81's) from over the kit to behind my head, looking out like extra ears...worked pretty good.

[Richard King]

Here's what I did for a drum session recently. This was in a 10'x10' closet in an empty house that I rebuilt and am "attempting" to sell. I simply bought some 4x8' masonite and attached a bunch of comforters that I had around the house. All seemed to work well considering. If I were doing a permanent setup, of course, I would have done it differently. Anyone wanna buy a house that was used for a recording session?

 

 

 

 

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Ken, RealTraps can be mounted on standard mic stands and they even come with straps for the purpose.

 

 

I had them mounted on mic stands before, big beefy ones, and ended up breaking down and buying Ethan's stands instead. They're lighter and work better for my purposes. I'm using the heavy stands for my LDCs now, so it's all good.

 

 

I have 4 of them mounted on stands that way which I use in the room corners normally, but I'll move them in to construct a mini vocal booth. Or sometimes a drum "booth" with the addition of 3 or 4 traps placed horizontally on the floor around the kit, if I want a tight drum sound.

 

 

You place them horizontally? I've thought of doing that...almost like gobos, but so far, I haven't done that, instead placing four vertically around the drum set, and then taken two mic stands and placed a couple of packing blankets a few feet in front of the kit.

 

How are you standing the RealTraps horizontally, outta curiosity?

 

I agree with what Fletcher said about the "underheads" - even with absorptive ceilings, I rarely use mics in standard overhead position on the drums because the ceilings are low. I get better results with the room mics not near the ceiling.

 

 

I've "sort of" done this but would love to learn more. What I mean by "sort of" is that I've had a room mic at approximately tom level a few feet in front of the kit as well as overheads, but ended up leaning much more heavily on the room mic than the overhead ultimately, if that makes any sense.

 

Fletcher wrote: Now... underheads. If you think of an isosceles triangle with the snare drum as the "top" point... place your two "under head" mics at the other two corners of that isosceles triangle 1/2 way between the ceiling and the floor.

 

 

Either I'm brain dead or some other equally dumb excuse, but I'm having trouble picturing exactly where the mics go in terms of placement around the kit, other than that they're halfway between the ceiling and the floor. So in relation to the kit, where are they being placed?

 

Fletcher's suggestion to use a diffuser for the ceiling, suspended on a free standing frame, is also a great one if you're ambitious enough to do it.

 

 

Yeah, that's a great suggestion. I just haven't done it. I can totally picture that working really well.

 

 

 

Otherwise you can use some sturdy boom mic stands and do what WKG does, with the RealTraps. The other good thing about RealTraps is they're slightly reflective in the high frequencies even though they absorb bass frequencies, so you don't get a muddy sound by using them. Do you have carpet on the floor, or hard floors?

 

 

I have wood floors. Here's the other sucky thing: I have a raised foundation. IOW, the floor resonates. I have a Persian rug and various other rugs placed in the room, but it's a wood floor, one that resonates. I place a flat piece of wood or a clipboard or something under the snare.

 

You know, it's funny, everyone keeps saying how I'm getting a good drum sound, but I'm never satisfied with it. I'm happy - although always experimenting and trying for better - with the guitar sounds, acoustic guitar sounds, vocal sounds, bass sounds, all that, but the drums still elude me. I feel like I'm fighting the physics of the small room all the time. I don't wanna screw up the room by having crap nailed in to the ceilings and walls and all that because I have to respect how my girlfriend wants the house to look...and besides, how many girlfriends would let me do what I do in the house so many days out of the week anyway? So, yeah, I gotta be cool about that, but at the same time, I wanna get stuff that's quick to set up but still cool sounding.

 

I'd love to know more about the underheads. For someone in my situation, that sounds ideal. I'll keep wrestling with the rest as well.

 

T'anks, people!!

[UstadKhanAli]

 

but without the majority of the phase crap you invariably pick up with a flat ceiling to close to the mics. Best of luck!! If you need any clarification, you know how to find me. Peace.

 

 

Less snare in the overheads is just not gonna be a problem for me. Just love to know more about the placement relative to the drum kit.

 

Printing out the stuff about the diffusor. I can build that; the thing is to be able to build something that goes up easily, breaks down easily, and can be stored easily (I have a really small house).

 

Thanks!