Members elamberth Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 Hey Phil,What do you think of a forum dedicated to recording techniques? Not which LDC or compressor to buy, but how to use what you have ( incl. plugs). I know there is info like that here mixed in, but so often the discussion turns to this mic or that EQ. The more I work at this the more I am convinced that my limiting factor is in technique not the I need this piece of gear. Not that the high end stuff isn't nice/ better - I'm sure it is. I just think there may be a lot of use who should spend time on technique and maybe not money on gear. Any thoughts from you or others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 I dont know if your idea about a forum for recording techniques only would work very well. For those who may teach and have a syllabus to follow in a formal setting teaching maybe up to a point. But would a novice with no experience or pro background know where techniques begin and end? You also have a very limiting factor because you can't hear what differences any change in technique may provide over another. The equipment used, the room, the mics used and all the other equipment will dictate what sounds best recording and mixing, then you have the type of music and all those factors including monitors, room, different peoples ears etc etc that will dictate how things will sound. The best you can do with recording techniques is keep them very general and adapt them to specifics as you come across them. You could visit a site like "tweaks guide to home recording" plus many others and load up on all the recording techniques you need, then what? You need to use them right? The best way to look at it is this. Musicians have their tools - amps guitars etc. A recording engineer has their tools - mics mixers, preamps, the room etc A mixer or mastering engineer have their box of tricks, plugins programs etc Some of the basics are fairly standard, beyond those basics that everyone seems to use, its skies the limit of how those tools can be used. "Technique" can be considerd an "ART" when it comes down to it. Art is a creative expression. Being a great artist is not easy by any streach of the imagination. you can know every technique known to man and still suck at being an artist right? inother words Technique can be very broad or very narrow depending on how specific you want to go. Developing experience through the use of the tools and building true talent will vary with every individual through trial and error, reading, mentoring, and adapting to needs. If you're luckey enough to have an formal education in electronics or recording, broadcasting video etc then you're already beyond much of the technique basics, you still have to use them to have any real skill. Ive seen guys who swing a hammer and cant get a nail in straight for the life of them. I've seen others who can nail it every time with a single shot, and that doesnt even get into more advanced power tools. Same goes for recording. Someone who services many many customers is recording are more likely to develop the traits needed in recording. Reading about them or sharing ideas like in forums can provide guidence. The rest is all hands on learning and decision making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synonym Music Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 Hey Phil, What do you think of a forum dedicated to recording techniques? Not which LDC or compressor to buy, but how to use what you have ( incl. plugs). I know there is info like that here mixed in, but so often the discussion turns to this mic or that EQ. The more I work at this the more I am convinced that my limiting factor is in technique not the I need this piece of gear. Not that the high end stuff isn't nice/ better - I'm sure it is. I just think there may be a lot of use who should spend time on technique and maybe not money on gear. Any thoughts from you or others? You finally get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elamberth Posted September 8, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 Thanks for the replies! WRGKMC: I know recording takes a lot of time and experience, but I was thinking about a forum with starting points/advice. I read an article where a producer said he used 6 reverbs, and I have no idea how to experiment with that in a non-random way. How about recording an acoustic guitar for a band (e.g.) Eagles vs. James Taylor sound vs. Michael Hedges vs. gritty delta blues, etc. Compression starting points, etc.? I got to thinking about this when I read a thread where Bruce Sweden chimed in. Someone asked him if he used an SM7 to record Michael Jackson on Thriller. He said he did often use that mic on him in those days, but a more interesting conversation would be on how he recorded the vocals, not on which mic he used. I also got to thinking that if the remaining Beatles came to my studio with my i88x type pre's, CAD, Studio Projects, MXL and cascade mic's, and were recorded by George martin, would I want to listen to the recording? YES, I would! So, perhaps technique and talent is where the money is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lucky #9 Posted September 9, 2009 Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 Thanks for the replies!I also got to thinking that if the remaining Beatles came to my studio with my i88x type pre's... elamberth: Just how would you rate the pres on that Yamaha i88x, anyway? Good results, clean or colored, and so on ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elamberth Posted September 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 Lucky #9:The pres are clean and detailed. I like them a lot on vocals, guitar, and acoustic instruments. They sound like what you feed them. I think they are a bit flat on bass though and usually record with something else. Phil did a nice review of them a while back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 9, 2009 Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 Well the only thing I can say is technique and talent cant be put into a formula and they vary from performer to performer, minuite by minuite, session by session. You could have the setings, mic positions, the mics etc. It won't sound exactly the same every session, nor would you want it to. I have my studio set with all mics pre positioned, preamps set optimally etc and basically the band comes in and plays with those exact same settings every week. The mixing thats required is different every single time even with the same songs played. Dynamics is one of the big factor. It will change settings needed on all effects that react to dynamics like compressors, reverbs, echos limiters etc. The music timing may be off too which affects the settings of all of these too. Timing and phase can be varied through mic position too which will throw any exact positioning off too. Since you cant quantify every circumstance, you have to adapt to every circumstance. This is where talent and aptitude comes in. It cant be bought, bartered, copied or stolen because it deals with abstract and sientific concepts at work in the mind. So it comes down to the ability of the engineer to hear and make decisions with the use of his tools in creative ways. What those creative ways may be are his trade secrets. Even if he was to tell you what they were word for word its doubtfull you could recreate the same results because music is full of dynamics and there is so many different types of equipment manufactured and used in so many different combinations, by so many different players the attempt to mimick any technique would give less than optimum results. Best thing anyone can do is absorb other ideas, develop our own techniques and learn to use the equipment we have on hand to get the most optimum results possible in the rooms we record in and with the musicians that perform. Only my two cents here. Many have attempted to formulate basics but its a fail every time. You can use them as basic guides but they get old quick. Even with the use of scientific scopes and test equipment, theres going to be some who bends or break rules to create something new and unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zooey Posted September 9, 2009 Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 Two recording forums is already more than HC needs or wants (if forum traffic is any indication). I'd rather have one moderately well-attended forum than three weak ones full of cross-posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elamberth Posted September 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 WRGKMC:I realize that a formulaic approach will not work, but I do believe that there is merit in discussing recording technique. It's already being done on this forum, I was just suggesting another forum to group posts like that so that they may be accessed more easily. That's it. Zooey: You make a good point that there may not be enough traffic to support a third recording forum. I don't know enough about forums to evaluate that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted September 10, 2009 Members Share Posted September 10, 2009 I would agree with Zooey. If you want more discussion about these things, I'd say just start more threads on it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted September 10, 2009 Share Posted September 10, 2009 After HC 2.0 rolls out, we might be able to do some more topic specific forum things, but in general, if you have a question regarding specific techniques, you can certainly start threads about them in either of the two existing recording related forums. And Zooey, our traffic numbers are actually pretty good. I once asked Craig Anderton if he was concerned about our relatively low post counts here in the Studio Trenches forum, and he informed me that while the actual post counts are not that high in comparison to some of the other HC forums (but are not entirely unreasonable when compared to other individual audio forums on the web ), our page views are actually pretty darned high. IOW, while we don't get tons of posts, a lot of people are apparently lurking / reading what goes on in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members VSpaceBoy Posted September 11, 2009 Members Share Posted September 11, 2009 I do agree with you.. a good carpenter will do wonders, a bad carpenter will blame his tools. I've had about the same "tools" for several years now. I almost can't listen to the stuff I was doing at the beginning. I've even gone back and remixed tracks I've already completed to achieve a much much better result. I don't think that it needs to be a while separate forum though, as all things recording are related one way or another and we'd all end up in all of the forums anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elamberth Posted September 11, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 11, 2009 Thanks guys! It seems that starting posts is the way to go, at least for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synonym Music Posted September 12, 2009 Members Share Posted September 12, 2009 Thanks guys! It seems that starting posts is the way to go, at least for now. Certainly. On the whole, I find gear threads incredibly boring. You could just throw a high enough amount of money at those problems and they'd generally be solved (maybe that doesn't account for taste, but I don't hear a lot of tasty gear below a certain level.) Technique, or history, or psychology etc... Those are interesting. Not this "What's the best?" bull{censored}. There's a reason I haven't asked those kinds of questions. I don't need a gear upgrade. I don't put my mixes up on an 1112 with good converters and monitors and say, "Wow, that sounds like garbage." They don't. Really the new information I learn is about what I expected. If you can get that far then yeah, maybe you're hitting a plateau in terms of gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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