Help out a noob

[sabriel9v]

Once I get a practice/rehearsal space set up, I would like to start recording all of the jam sessions within that space. I was thinking about purchasing a:

 

- 8 track cassette recorder

- 16 channel mixer

- A bunch of Shure SM57s

 

I want to place 4 mics on the drum kit. 2 will serve as overheads, one will mic the kick and another will serve as an ambient mic situated far from the kit but in that general direction. I will mic the guitar amp and vocals as well.

 

1) What's the best way to capture the bass's sound? Ideally I would like to DI, but then I'm not sure how the bassist would hear themselves.

 

2) Once I have everything recorded on a couple tracks on the recorder, is there some way I can isolate each individual track or channel that was mic'ed and then re-record those tracks into Audacity?

 

Any other suggestions about good budget drum mics, recording tips, please share all of it.

[Mr.Grumpy]

I think you'll be disappointed with the audio quality of an 8-track cassette. Dropouts can be a real problem with 8 track cassettes, so use the best quality cassettes you can find. "Analog warmth" is highly overrated, and really only applies to high-end pro analog gear. I really think you'd be happier in the long run saving up for an 8 channel recording interface and just record straight to Audacity. OK, enough with the beatdowns, on to your other questions.

 

I like to DI bass myself, I have the cheesy Be#$@#$& V-tone bass DI box, (It's a SansAmp bass DI clone) and I love the tone I get from it. It has a parallel output too so your bassist can still run his bass amp to hear himself. You can of course mic a bass cabinet.

 

2) Once I have everything recorded on a couple tracks on the recorder, is there some way I can isolate each individual track or channel that was mic'ed and then re-record those tracks into Audacity?

 

Your question isn't clear to me...but once you mix a track with another onto analong tape, it can't be "unmixed" and seperated. I'm assuming your PC just has a stereo soundcard. So yes, you could bounce the 8 tracks off of cassette and into Audacity by recording them 2 at a time. That could be a bit tedious, you'll have to line the tracks up too so they'll be in sync.

 

If your goal is to make a band jam demo, then I'd just do the recording, tweaking and mixdown on the 8-track, then bounce the stereo mix into your computer. But if your goal is to make a demo for 'public consumption' like club owners or record labels, I'd avoid using a multitrack cassette. Just my opinion, I've recorded my band on a shoestring with analog gear when we didn't have any choice, and it was a struggle.

 

Good luck man.

[sabriel9v]

 

If your goal is to make a band jam demo, then I'd just do the recording, tweaking and mixdown on the 8-track, then bounce the stereo mix into your computer.

 

 

Yes, this is my goal.

 

 

I really think you'd be happier in the long run saving up for an 8 channel recording interface and just record straight to Audacity. OK, enough with the beatdowns, on to your other questions.

 

 

Can you recommend a good audio interface? Could I do something as simple as plugging the SM57s into this audio interface and then plugging that interface into my USB port or somewhere else on the computer? I want to keep this as simple as possible.

[UstadKhanAli]

Get some sort of M-Audio interface which has mic preamps so you can just plug in your mics and then go via USB or firewire or whatever straight into Audacity. I agree with other people's opinions about the 8-track cassette. I love analog, but 8-track cassettes generally don't sound all that great.

[sabriel9v]

Get some sort of M-Audio interface which has mic preamps so you can just plug in your mics and then go via USB or firewire or whatever straight into Audacity. I agree with other people's opinions about the 8-track cassette. I love analog, but 8-track cassettes generally don't sound all that great.

 

Cool. Thanks

[wwwjd]

self foot shooting with an 8 track cassette for so many reasons that none are worth going into. unless you already own it, and don't want to spend another dime. even the CHEAPEST 4 to 16 track digital device (or multi input computer interface) would be so much easier than cassette. Trust ALL OF US on this point

[etcetera]

Will an multi input computer interface to Audacity sound better or is easier to use then just using an analog mixer to Audacity ?

[sabriel9v]

Will an multi input computer interface to Audacity sound better or is easier to use then just using an analog mixer to Audacity ?

 

Good question

[CME]

 

Will an multi input computer interface to Audacity sound better or is easier to use then just using an analog mixer to Audacity ?

 

 

What are you trying to do? With a mixer, computer (with stereo ins as most have), and some kind of software you could record a stereo mix. However you'll be stuck with that take. You could do some work arounds like only send the drums to the PC. Then start layering things on top 1 or 2 tracks at a time. However you'll still be using the built in sound card which normally aren't bad but def not great either.

 

However if you wanna record everything at once you're gonna need some sort of multiple input interface. With this you can record everything to it's own track (provided the interface has enough inputs and most should) and be able to go back and edit/rerecord parts much easier. Plus the converters in most interfaces should be much better than the built in sound card.

 

As far as your plan goes the main thing I would change is I'd look up the "Recorderman" drum mic technique. It's a four mic setup that gives really great results in any environment. I think you have a pretty good idea on how to do everything else.

[etcetera]

Thanks for the response CME.

I only know Audacity to record my band which is 3 vocals and 2 instruments. I pan left on my analog mixer for vocals and right for instruments and mix down on Audacity. I record practices, ideas for originals and CD's to pass out at shows. Is there another way to record on a software program or some sort of multiple input interface to a computer except stereo 2 channels ?

[UstadKhanAli]

Mixer > two-channel USB interface > Audacity is one method.

[CME]

Thanks for the response CME. I only know Audacity to record my band which is 3 vocals and 2 instruments. I pan left on my analog mixer for vocals and right for instruments and mix down on Audacity. I record practices, ideas for originals and CD's to pass out at shows. Is there another way to record on a software program or some sort of multiple input interface to a computer except stereo 2 channels ?

 

 

I just looked at Audacity and looks like with it you are limited to recording in stereo with it. However if you wanted to switch programs there are plenty of options with much more capabilities. Here is a newer product I've been eying. It's a mixer that comes bundled with software which allows you to record every channel separately. There is also a 24 channel version of the mixer, plus the mixers can be daisy chained if needed for even more channels. However there are literally hundreds of ways to achieve recording live performances. The only limits are budget and imagination. However it gets easier and cheaper every day.

[etcetera]

UstadKhanAli says

Mixer > two-channel USB interface > Audacity is one method

 

But I now go Mixer > Audacity and get pretty good recordings...what is the point of the two-channel USB interface ?

 

CME, I did check that out and got sticker shock ! I really love modern recording technology compared to back in the day.

[CME]

Well for a much more reasonable price check out this. Part of the same family. I will say I've never used any of these. I'm more of a PTLE guy, but I have used some of presonus' other product and they have been great.

 

As far as to why you would use a 2 channel interface, that would be for the better converters. For what you are doing I won't say you'd notice a huge improvement, but I bet you'd probably notice some improvement.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

UstadKhanAli says Mixer > two-channel USB interface > Audacity is one method But I now go Mixer > Audacity and get pretty good recordings...what is the point of the two-channel USB interface ?

 

 

Most likely your audio quality. What kind of A-D converters are you using? I suggested that because the A-D converters might be higher quality than the simple A-D converters that might come stock in the card of whatever computer you have. Or maybe there's still cards that have high-quality A-D converters and you have this?

 

Another variation on this theme would be USB or firewire mixer > Audacity.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I'd recommend a decent 8 channel USB interface with mic preamps on it, and running something like Reaper as the audio program. I'd say stick with Audacity, but if it only supports two channel interfaces, that seems to be way too restrictive for me to recommend in good conscience.

 

Forget the 8 track cassette idea.

 

I'm also not crazy about the mixer into a two channel computer audio interface idea, or a mixer with a built in two channel USB interface idea... with those options, everything you record will be combined as a stereo track or two mono tracks in your computer software - no changing the relative levels, no adjusting EQ, no adding effects to individual elements later - you have to get the premix "right" going in. That can certainly teach you a lot, but it's not very flexible in this day and age.

 

As far as the bass, get a good DI box. Run the output from the bass into the DI. There should be a output from that for your recording interface AND a "through" output you can run to the bass amp. You get the direct signal for the recording that you said you wanted, and the bassist gets to hear him / herself via their amp. Everyone's happy.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I'm also not crazy about the mixer into a two channel computer audio interface idea, or a mixer with a built in two channel USB interface idea... with those options, everything you record will be combined as a stereo track or two mono tracks in your computer software - no changing the relative levels, no adjusting EQ, no adding effects to individual elements later - you have to get the premix "right" going in. That can certainly teach you a lot, but it's not very flexible in this day and age.

 

 

That's right. But if he's talking about Audacity and just two channels, those are the basic choices, aren't there? I wouldn't want to have to work like that either...and don't, but it sounds like the guy is on a budget, especially if he's not even considering an external A-D converter.

[Mcfontio]

Can you recommend a good audio interface? Could I do something as simple as plugging the SM57s into this audio interface and then plugging that interface into my USB port or somewhere else on the computer? I want to keep this as simple as possible.

 

So you are buying the mixer too?

 

If you end up buying a nice mixer and a nice say 8 track recorder, you might as well go for the multitrack recording mixer. I love my A&H board but it would have been nice to wait to get the multitrack recording mixer. But, I'm as about as much a noob as you when it comes to recording.

 

I've seen brand new presonus mixers going for 17 hundo on ebay. Someone is also posting one of those for two grand with a sick road case.

 

Also, what do you intend to do with the recordings? If it's just to hear what went down and if you run a mac, you could just use the onboard mic. That's what we do for our jam sessions and you can "hear" everything including the bass surprisingly enough. That way, you're not spending a few grand on mixer, recorder, mics, cables, stands etc.

[UstadKhanAli]

Let's also state a budget for everything. I've been under the impression that the OP wants to spend the minimum possible to achieve whatever he is trying to achieve.