Educate me - how and WHY do you use buss compression?

[LowYaw]

As in grouping several tracks to "glue" them together? Is there any sense to say, route kick and bass guitar to the same buss and compress them together?

 

what's the point, in general? please eductae me

[WRGKMC]

The idea of using any plug on a bus is to save resources so you dont have to have several of the same plugins running on individual tracks.

 

The only bus compression I may use is Waves multiband phase limiting and I pass all the tracks through it as a short cut to mastering. The multiband tames the low end and prevents dynamic overs throughout the audio sprctrum and gells all the parts together. I may also put drums on a bus and add reverb to expand the depth of the music or give it a live feel. This is after I have all the tracks as properly balanced as possible. This all depends on what the music calls for and weather a global plugin can or should be used.

 

The last song I mixed did require the drums to be bussed because I needed that reverb depth. Then I sent that bus to another main bus where all the tracks received the multiband. I also used a plugin called "Optimum Baselane" that mono's the bass frequencies because the bass had a littel stereo phaser added for motion and I only wanted the high FQ to have a spread and wanted the low frequencies centered. This is also good for wide drum panning like I was using. It keeps the lows centered so the speakers punch in tight unison but still allows for cymbals and such to have separation. Another thing is I record my band live and using the plugin centers all rogue low frequency resonances that occurs due to bleedover and tightens up the lows to center, guitars and all.

 

For other stuff I may only use a brick wall limiter. If I do use compression it would be mostly on drums and on individual tracks used frugally. I dont slap it on like a coat of paint as a do all fix all plugin and only apply it where needed. Alot of it has to do with how well tracks were recorded. I find drums can use it more than anything else, But I usually opt for limiting over comping.

 

I find the Limiters I use much cleaner and leave less mud and noise. It also avoids the pumping comps create and only limits the peaks. A comp will tame peaks but will also bring up the noise floor between transients. A limiter doesnt, it just tames the peaks when set right, so less noise and cleaner mixes.

 

The opposite of a compressor is an expander, and I have used them on things that are too compressed in comparison to others. The whole idea is to balance the dynamics, not to crush the life out of everything.

 

Leaving a littel more punch in a mix is better than a flat and lifeless one dimensional sound. This way when you go to master the tracks with higher quality Comps and limiters, they will have enough dynamics to trigger them to work. You cant trigger a comp if the dynamics are already flat and crushed so leaving peaks is important.

 

Of course all of this depends on the music itself and what is needed. I'm at the point where I use very littel comping at all except for mastering. The mastering plugs work so much better if you can avoid using too much mic compression and the final quality of the song winds up sounding much more transparent and up front.

[LowYaw]

hey

thanks

i also found this

 

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/tips-techniques/170189-mix-buss-compression-charles-dye.html

[LowYaw]

 

The idea of using any plug on a bus is to save resources so you dont have to have several of the same plugins running on individual tracks.

 

 

is that the only reason, really? i hear people say they use BC to make certain instruments "work together" better?

 

edit: I want to stress out again, it's not about placing a compressor across the mix buss, but, doing tuff like routing kick and bass guitar to the same buss and compress them together

[chris carter]

The purpose of buss compression (2buss or any buss) is because you want the interaction of ALL the parts in the buss to drive the gain reduction circuit and have the reduction affect ALL the parts in the buss. So compressing an entire chorus will sound very different than compressing each vocal track in the chorus individually. Similarly, compressing the 2buss will sound very different from compressing each individual element differently. Generally speaking, a lot of the time (like in the two examples) you have a little of BOTH individual channel compression AND buss compression.

 

Most of the time we use buss compression, it tends to be the for the reason you mention: "glue" or whatever you want to call it. It tends to make the group of parts in the buss sound a little more like a cohesive unit because they are being processed together. If one part gets loud and another part doesn't get quite as loud, the louder part is going to push the compressor harder and the softer part will still get the reduction even though it might not have triggered that much compression on it's own. In this way the parts are essentially "married" to eachother and just like with a married couple, they make decisions for the compressor together (or many parts, if you want to think of it more like an entire family that works as one cohesive unit).

 

There can be other reasons, such as problem solving reasons, but the "glue" or "married" (same things). For example, if you are running out of processing you could possibly get away with compressing a group buss instead of the individual instruments. It will sound different, but it might be a comprimise that needs to be made if you've totally run out of power and don't want to freeze tracks. And with the 2buss, you could use it simply to make the song louder, although this generally is NOT really necessary for volume. But USUALLY we just do it for the "glue" factor.

 

I personally am not really a fan of compressing kick and bass together. But some people do in order to marry them. If you talk to bass players, they will tell you that they basically live with the kick drum. I would go as far to say that the relationshipo between the kick and bass is MORE important than the relationship between the kick and the rest of the drums on MOST records. So because there is that relationship, some mixers like to compress them together. I personally believe that there are better ways to marry them than bussing and compressing them together 99% of the time.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I personally am not really a fan of compressing kick and bass together.

 

 

Out of curiosity, why not?

[chris carter]

I think there are betters ways to get a good relationship between kick and bass.

[Warhead]

This is one of those really confusing areas for a lot of forum readers lately (trust me, I get the phone calls...) and everybody has a different take on it.

 

I personally (if you're asking me!) don't just set up a compressor and start mixing INTO it...ever. I will however bring a compressor in towards the end of a mix and experiment with reigning in stray elements as well as helping things to move together in one "picture" if that makes sense.

 

When compressing you are always, always narrowing the dynamic range of audio material. If that makes sense for your mix I say yes, go for it. Vocals sitting a bit OUT of the mix can be nicely pulled back in, guitars and keys that are a little back are allowed to sort of breathe to the surface, and drums don't sound as disjointed much of the time...when a nice setting is found.

 

I hope this helps, and it's only my opinion and what works for me. Think about what different folks are saying and think about what you own and how you like to work to try and figure out if 2 buss compression is right for you and your workflow. Ask your doctor.

 

War

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I think there are betters ways to get a good relationship between kick and bass.

 

 

Right, I get that. I was wondering WHY you felt that way, and what you do to get a strong relationship between kick and bass otherwise (EQ, ducking, alternate compression techniques, compression on the individual tracks only).

 

I will sometimes use kick and bass on an auxiliary track and compress them together occasionally, but not always. It just depends. I think I do it most often when I feel like the bass is not "blooming" with the kick just right, but I haven't quite examined why I do it this way. I think I mix this way somewhere around 20% of the time on rock mixes.

[WRGKMC]

 

Right, I get that. I was wondering WHY you felt that way, and what you do to get a strong relationship between kick and bass otherwise (EQ, ducking, alternate compression techniques, compression on the individual tracks only). I will sometimes use kick and bass on an auxiliary track and compress them together occasionally, but not always. It just depends. I think I do it most often when I feel like the bass is not "blooming" with the kick just right, but I haven't quite examined why I do it this way. I think I mix this way somewhere around 20% of the time on rock mixes.

 

 

Lately with the mixes I've been getting, The kick and bass are exceptionally good completely dry. It took awhile getting the right Kick tuning and micing for them to complement each other over time. Its a studio set and its for recording only so getting it tweaked took many recordings and mild tweaks. The kick and bass complement each other and dont cause masking. I can forgo using any effects, ducking, or any of that stuff.

 

This wouldnt be possible in say a studio having musicians coming in and out. Time constraints usually allow you littel time to even ballpark the sound no less get it complementary. With studio amps and drums you have all the time you need to tweak things in.

 

I do use a mic and sub kick speaker on the kick and its getting a very good chest thumping sound now. This wasnt the case using a single mic and I did use all kinds of things to get the kick to match the bass. If anything I' used to have to thin the bass to match kick. If anything with the rich lows I have now, I tend to focus on the guitars more now.

 

This is the improvement trend though. The minuite you get the tracking improved on one item you then switch focus to other things and attempt to do the same for them.

 

I do all originals for the past 10 years so I'm not trying to shape the music to a specific style like I did with cover bands. If I was, I'd likely have to use comps and EQ to shape the sound to specifics. As Is I do build alot of the mix off the low end and since it sounds exceptional as is I leave it alone unless the music dictates. If anything, I may need to use a littel highpass, but even there, there needs to be a good reason. This does change if I bring in another drummer because of different styles.

 

Since I use the same drummer mostly, and I play all the bass parts, I specifically play bass to the drums kick and snare to match dynamics.

 

So you could say, I'm using manual compression by using proper playing technique. It really is the best compression device you can possibly use, but it is the hardest to learn because of the learning curve involved in developing all the techniques needed like deadening notes, attack and decay, dynamics and learning to thump with the kick (and when not too).

[IsildursBane]

 

I personally (if you're asking me!) don't just set up a compressor and start mixing INTO it...ever. I will however bring a compressor in towards the end of a mix and experiment with reigning in stray elements as well as helping things to move together in one "picture" if that makes sense.

 

 

That's how I do it, too. IME, bus compression really only works well if the mix already sounds good and you just want a little more polish on it.

 

-Dan.

[Lee Knight]

I'll tell you where I like buss compression. Background vocals. As the various parts cause the detection to react and that glue thing happens, it has a way of setting what you deem to be background, apart from the lead vocal. So for backups, I'll frequently slap a compressor then eq on the BG buss and get them glued up together. Then I'll buss that to delays or pitch or verb fx as one. This really gets then to be a certain thing together sets them apart.

 

Electric guitars can benefit from this as well. Depending on how you want to group of electrics to set apart form other electrics.

 

I don't like bass and drums compressed together either. I like them played tight and doing their own thing. Usually.

[chris carter]

Why I don't like buss compression on kick/bass:

 

Well, I generally feel like it's kind of a cop-out or a bandaid. I feel like it can often muddy things up a little and make the low-end less defined. It's a nice, easy, and fast way to get a decent kick/bass sound, but usually not the best way in my opinion. I'm generally better off dialing in each separately in a way that makes them work together. I also don't do the whole ducking thing that you hear about from time to time (kick triggering bass to duck it under the kick).

 

As for someone's comment about not mixing into 2buss (mix) compression... I generally always mix into it. It's part of the sound. If you just mix without it and then slap it on at the very end, you are going to get some suprises and then you have to go chasing those suprises down which affects other stuff which affects even other stuff and you are a dog chasing it's tail. So after I get a decent rough of the music and lead vocal and I know my levels are in the general ballpark, then I kick in the 2buss compression (ie. pretty early on) and mix into it. To me, mixing sans 2buss compression and then kicking it in only when you are finished with your mix is like playing a guitar direct with nothing on it and then expecting it to sound awesome when you finally turn on an amp simulator for the first time... no... listen to it with the amp sound while you are playing (better yet, print it that way!).

[CME]

This will be an almost meaningless post as I lack details. But I read an interview with a mix/producer guy. I don't remember who, but I remember at the time I recognized the name lol. Anywho he said he tended to set up like 5 stereo busses with different compressors on them. Then depending on what instrument it was and what effect he wanted decided what buss he sent it to. If I remember correctly he used very little compression on each track. And not everything went to a buss that was compressed. Anywho it was definitely a thought provoking interview. Wish I remembered more details. Aslo fwiw he mixed outside the box. In fact I'm not even sure he used a DAW at all. If he did it was all patched back into an analog mixer for mixdown.

[The Nick]

 

This will be an almost meaningless post as I lack details. But I read an interview with a mix/producer guy. I don't remember who, but I remember at the time I recognized the name lol. Anywho he said he tended to set up like 5 stereo busses with different compressors on them. Then depending on what instrument it was and what effect he wanted decided what buss he sent it to. If I remember correctly he used very little compression on each track. And not everything went to a buss that was compressed. Anywho it was definitely a thought provoking interview. Wish I remembered more details. Aslo fwiw he mixed outside the box. In fact I'm not even sure he used a DAW at all. If he did it was all patched back into an analog mixer for mixdown.

 

 

That's Michael Brauer (mixed Continuum, Viva La Vida). I think he even patented his technique, but he's posted a bunch of information on how to do it, IIRC...

[WRGKMC]

 

This will be an almost meaningless post as I lack details. But I read an interview with a mix/producer guy. I don't remember who, but I remember at the time I recognized the name lol. Anywho he said he tended to set up like 5 stereo busses with different compressors on them.

 

 

Really depends on how many tracks you got going. It surely has its place for complex mixes and knowing how to use busses even just for experimentation should be practiced by all. Theres no set rules here though. I use 8 tracks for drums, 4 for guitars, one bass, 3 vocals for 16 total recording live studio stuff. If I multitrack in more instruments then maybe bussing stuff might have a place. I surely have no need for 5 busses, and would save nothing in resources using them.

 

Vocal tracks may have a main and two harmonies. Our voices are very different so bussing with global effects my not work great. Guitars are recorded with two amps each. They are already mixed and have stereo effects on them so mixing is usually panning and band pass at the most. May add some light chorus or reverb but I usually do things like add chorus on one and reverb on the other to try and get some 3D spatial thing happening. Bass is direct and kick butt, centered and needs nothing else besides maybe some limiting if I get real wild playing and have some transients to tame. I just use a limiter for that.

 

If anything Drums are the thing I may use separate busses on. If I indeed do find I want a global comp on say all the toms, I do have the option in Sonar to process all or any of the effects and thereby reduce CPU load. (Just need to save the song as a new version if you want to save the untreated files)

 

If I have the comp on 4 channels and find the same setting is good on all 4, I may just select all 4 tracks and process the effect in and be done with it. Of course it would be near the end of mixing where you're done tweaking tracks and definately want to keep that sound.

 

I find this handy when I want to mix and master and have used up all my resources and want to run heavier mastering plugins in the mains.

 

I occasionally do this kind of stuff for noise reduction or limiting track levels too on drums. For example, my drummer may get a slightly weak kick for a few measures and I want to even up the dynamics. Instead of editing the track and using envelops or using slider automation etc on peak parts, I may just process the track with a limiter and even up all the kick hits. Again it depends on the song, how much work is needed, If the results are superior or even worth the additional work.

[UstadKhanAli]

 

That's Michael Brauer (mixed Continuum, Viva La Vida). I think he even patented his technique, but he's posted a bunch of information on how to do it, IIRC...

 

 

I've done mixes with three separate stereo busses with compressors on them, but that's very rare for me. The drums and bass were seriously erratic, so I ended up doing a stereo busses of kick and bass, had the kick and bass buss feeding an overall rhythm buss (all the drums + the kick and bass buss), and then another one for the tons of background vocals we had. And as I said, it's quite rare that I do this.

[chris carter]

I regularly have from 6 to 16 stereo group busses set up for a mix.

[CME]

That's Michael Brauer (mixed Continuum, Viva La Vida). I think he even patented his technique, but he's posted a bunch of information on how to do it, IIRC...

 

That sounds right. Thanks for the reminder lol. However I'm pretty sure I read this before either of those albums came out. But yeah he was very open and descriptive with his technique. Which I applaud. To me it makes little to no sense for some of these guys being so secretive about their techniques. I'm pretty sure I could open a session created by some of these guys (if they mix entirely ITB with Pro Tools) and just bounce to disc and it wouldn't sound near as good lol. However most guys I've read about are pretty open with how they work. It's the ears and experience that sets them apart from your average joe so it doesn't matter if they do give away their secrets. I'm still not gonna mix like them. Okay enough .

[Jesse G]

I like to use buss compression on metal guitar harmonies/twin leads.

 

For a twin lead, I pan the tracks hard left and right for stereo width; then for togetherness I send them both to a compressor on a stereo(sometimes mono) aux and bring it up until the two tracks sound glued together.

 

The reason I do this is because when guitar harmonies are panned together in the middle it has this awesome quality to it(think "Burnin' For You", "Hotel California") that seems to get lost when they are panned apart. But I also enjoy the stereo width of twin leads panned hard L/R (modern metal).

 

So if I pan them hard L/R and then use buss compression on both in the middle then I get the best of both worlds.