What are the best mics for rock and metal guitars??

[fakeplasticshrub]

Hello,

I know there's a search function, I'm very busy!! Please help I'd appreciate it hugely. Having just put a new song on myspace and been told the production is a slight hindrance (i work very VERY hard on it but it's a drum machine and a pod you know?) i've realised that we need to do full band recordings soon. everyone's up for it but I don't have the microphones for micing up the guitar and bass cabs.

 

i have 8 inputs available and my drummer has 4 drum mics, so i'm after 4 mics. 1 for a bass cab, 1 for a guitarist who has a marshall JCM800 with cab, and one for me with my Randall V2 and cab, then an all-purpose versatile mic. ideally the ones we use for guitars when doing live recordings can ALSO be used in some way on the drums when we do instrument by instrument recordings, as we can then use 8 mics on the kit to give it the kind of attention it really needs to sound good.

 

We have diverse influences, Soundgarden and Chains then all the way up to heavy, the guitars need to be heavy but articulate, thick and full. At the moment I probably want to buy 3 mics, and my budget for all of them is probably around

[Phil O'Keefe]

Get yourself two or three Audix i5's. They'll cost about $100 each and they'll work great on both the guitar cabs as well as on various parts of the drum kit - particularly on snare and smaller toms. Hopefully your drummer already has a good kick drum mic.

 

The SE1 and SE2 wouldn't be my first choice for electric guitar speaker cabs - but then again, neither would any other small diaphragm condenser mikes.

 

Do you know specifically which mikes your drummer already has?

 

That would help in terms of knowing what to suggest, since these same mikes have to serve double duty on the bass and guitars as well as the drum kit. No sense in duplicating what you already have - for example, his kick mic might work fine for bass, or you can always take the bass direct - the bass player's amp may even already have a direct output on it.

[Phil O'Keefe]

BTW, the mikes I've mentioned already are very good microphones, but the term "best" is highly subjective. Given unlimited budgets, I might mention things like the Neumann U67, AKG C-414 and various different high dollar ribbon microphones from Beyer, Royer, AEA, etc. Even on a tighter budget, you will still find people who prefer the Shure SM57 or Sennheisser 609 instead of the Audix i5, etc.

[Hulston Prickle]

The metal guys on the HC Amp Forum love the Audix i5s Phil mentioned. They've posted lots of clips if you look around for them.

[AudioArtist]

I like sennheisser md421's for hard rock and metal guitar, but the sm57 is always a good standard. And btw your mixes aren't that bad. I thought your gtr tones/sound were pretty good.

[Lee Knight]

I really like the Fathead ribbon for elec guitar. On that budget I'd get one and the a couplea i5's probably (not having used one but based on Phil's rec.).

[Inazone]

I'll add another vote for the Audix i5. I use one in my home studio, combined with an AKG C1000, for recording guitars. Our drummer has a pro studio and uses multiple i5s, for everything from recording guitars and drums to reamping.

[fakeplasticshrub]

hey everyone, thank you for your suggestions there is plenty to set myself into tonight in terms of looking at what's available from the recommendations here in the UK.

apparently my drummer already has the following mics:

pg52 x1

pg56 x3

pg81 x2

i'll research them tonight, i have no idea about the quality. i was thinking of using a coupla sm57s for some things as i have them lying around and they always give a true, if slightly flat, sound.

[AudioArtist]

fakeplasticshrub wrote

 

apparently my drummer already has the following mics: pg52 x1 pg56 x3 pg81 x2

 

Those are shure pg series mics?

If so, I've used them before. I was fairly satisfied with them.

One group I recorded about four years ago brought a set of those with them and wanted to use them over my stuff.

the pg56's sounded pretty good on larger - lower tuned toms.

the pg81's I ended up using on percussion, sounded good.

[CME]

SM57's are the defacto standard. I've not tried the i5's but have heard good things. If you already have some 57's though I'd probably pick up some ribbons. Heard good things about the fatheads. I have a Nady RSM-5 and really like it. Blending it with a dynamic usually gives really nice results. I'll also throw out my new do it all mic. The CAD M179. It has a very neutral sound. Probably one of the best all around budget mics out there. And fwiw they sound absolutely fantastic on toms. I bought them mainly for that but sound good on pretty much everything.

[AudioArtist]

I've got one of the Cad M179's too. I wouldn't put it too close to a very loud cabinet, maybe two or three feet away, but it is a good mic for budget.

If you aren't going to be recording the guitar at full volume this mic could work well.

I've gotten good results having a 57-58 right up close and setting the

Cad M179 further back to capture some room sound.

[chris carter]

Well, you should own an SM57; that's a given. Personally, on a guitar amp, my hands down favorite is the combination of a 57 (i5 would work, as would many other dynamics) and a Royer 121. I've heard the Cascade Fathead works as a great replacement for the 121 in this situaition for much less $$$ and there are other ribbons that will work. I would also try and get two of whatever ribbons you get for drum room mics.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Chris, have you tried the Beyer M160? I'm not suggesting ditching the Royer (which are great mikes), but if you have not had the pleasure of using a M160 on guitar, give one a try sometime. They're also really good drum overheads. Great sax mic too.

 

*******

 

The way some of you guys keep talking about the CAD M179's, I'm going to have to try to track down two or three and give them a try myself. Is CAD still making them?

[chris carter]

I haven't tried the M160. I probably won't anytime soon either. Since my mixing work has gone through the roof, I rarely track much anymore and don't see myself trying to acquire any new mics... nor have I had the need to go into any outside studios where I would have opportunity to try them out on a session.

[CME]

The way some of you guys keep talking about the CAD M179's, I'm going to have to try to track down two or three and give them a try myself. Is CAD still making them?

 

AFAIK they are still being made. They now come in a big black plastic case that holds the mic in the shockmount. They first came in a smaller metal case that held just the mic. I have 1 with the metal case and 3 with the plastic case. I can't tell any difference in any of them sound wise. There are several places that sell 3 packs for $399. I got all 4 of mine off ebay for about $400.

[AudioArtist]

phil:

 

The way some of you guys keep talking about the CAD M179's, I'm going to have to try to track down two or three and give them a try myself. Is CAD still making them?

 

 

Not to bash a mic I own and really like but, I personally don't think of them as a 'Great' mic. There's alot of other LDC's I would rather own. But the M179 is great for the price and the switchable pick-up patterns are a nice feature.

[fakeplasticshrub]

 

fakeplasticshrub wrote Those are shure pg series mics? If so, I've used them before. I was fairly satisfied with them. One group I recorded about four years ago brought a set of those with them and wanted to use them over my stuff. the pg56's sounded pretty good on larger - lower tuned toms. the pg81's I ended up using on percussion, sounded good.

 

 

Hi AA,

what do you think of the pg52? i guess it would have to be that one on the snare after all, or should i use something else?

i'm looking at buying probably 3 sm57s, Sennheisser 609s or audix i5s, the others seem out of my price range. i might get 2 of one, 1 of the other, to have some more variety, the pair being used primarily for guitars.

[nerol1st]

You can't give me enough 57s. lol

 

For metal I'm going to say (arguable of course):

 

sm57, i5, e906, 421, and royer 121/122

 

I have an i5, e609, and 57 and like the 57 the most, but the i5 is really close second (I wouldn't be opposed to useing it instead of a 57).

[AudioArtist]

 

Hi AA, what do you think of the pg52? i guess it would have to be that one on the snare

 

 

If I remember correctly the pg52 will be the Kick mic from that set.

If so, it's not bad.

 

I often use an SM57 for snare, another mic I like for snare is an EV RE10, but good luck trying to find one, you can find them used sometimes, but that's a mic not many people let go of if they have one.

 

 

i'm looking at buying probably 3 sm57s, Sennheisser 609s or audix i5s, the others seem out of my price range. i might get 2 of one, 1 of the other, to have some more variety, the pair being used primarily for guitars.

 

 

If it were me buying these mics, with the given budget, I would go with the

i5's, but definitely get yourself a few 57's, they are an excellent all around, many instrument capable mic

[fakeplasticshrub]

thanks,

i'll check them both again and do some more research before making the decision. the other thing i need is a pair of overhead mics, and possibly something to mic the hi-hat. for the overheads i've heard good and bad things about Samson CO2s, for the money, for me, it seems like a no-brainer. What we are creating is a product that can be sold locally, at shows, and played on local and small radio stations as well as given to promoters. what is your take on mics in this kind of price range? Since i'm already getting 3 other mics, they need to be cheap.

also, we are going to do some live recordings too but my firepod only has 8 inputs. so one mic each on the guitars and bass. do you think single SM57 can handle that? i see no reason why they shouldn't, just need confirmation from more knowledgeable people than myself.

[Phil O'Keefe]

phil: Not to bash a mic I own and really like but, I personally don't think of them as a 'Great' mic. There's alot of other LDC's I would rather own. But the M179 is great for the price and the switchable pick-up patterns are a nice feature.

 

Distinction noted. Thanks.

 

How well do they take high SPLs? I've heard they're decent on toms; how about acoustic guitar?

[AudioArtist]

 

Phil: How well do they take high SPLs? I've heard they're decent on toms; how about acoustic guitar?

 

M179 Specifications-

Operating Principle: Externally-biased condenser

Polar Pattern: Continuously variable

Frequency Response: 20Hz to 20KHz

Sensitivity: -36dBV (16mV) @ 1 Pa

Impedance: 200 ohms

Max SPL: 143dB, 1% THD, attenuator engaged

Self Noise: 11dBA

Hi-pass Filter: 100Hz, 6dB/oct

Attenuator: 10dB

Power Requirements: P24, P48, 8mA

 

The freq. curves are very flat from 50-about 3k with a subtle boost from 3-16k. I've never heard mine distort even when sitting in front of the drum kit. But, I never really try to push my luck.

I use mine primarily for acc. gtr. and vocals.

you can hear it here- http://www.facebook.com/pages/One-Good-Reason/193852469901 on the song Empty World the 12 string was recorded with the M179, the vocals were also tracked with this mic.

 

Here's cad's webpage for the M179 - http://www.cadaudio.com/M179.php

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Hello, I know there's a search function, I'm very busy!! Please help I'd appreciate it hugely. Having just put a new song on myspace and been told the production is a slight hindrance (i work very VERY hard on it but it's a drum machine and a pod you know?) i've realised that we need to do full band recordings soon. everyone's up for it but I don't have the microphones for micing up the guitar and bass cabs.

 

 

Here's my take on it.

 

You can get a really heavy amazing sound with all sorts of mics. I wouldn't get too hung up on what mic it is.

 

What's more crucial is how it's placed.

 

Personally, I can get a really huge sound in a number of different ways, and they're all pretty easy. Obviously, this assumes that you have an amazing guitar tone already.

 

One way is a good quality large diaphragm condenser about a foot away in a decent sounding room, and failing that, with some sound treatment surrounding the mic so your crappy sounding room doesn't get absorbed. Play around with the polar position - I sometimes get amazingly open sounds with omni, while other times, cardioid is fine. I use either a Lawson L251 or an Audio-Technica AT4060, both tube mics going through a Neve Portico or a Peavey VMP-2, but again, don't get too hung up on gear. It's more about the sound, positioning, and choices you make than the specific mic. Place it just off center from the cabinet, facing straight on, and with headphones, move it slightly closer/farther until it sounds just right. If I am using just one LDC, I usually don't like to jam it real close because I like the sound of the amp to bloom slightly, so I often set it at about a foot, but it depends. Sometimes two feet. Sometimes slightly closer. Then...with the mic facing 90 degrees, I move it away from center/closer to center. Out near the edge of the speaker, it's a little darker, and in the center, a bit brighter.

 

Another way is to to use two mics. I use a dynamic mic up close on the cabinet to capture the chunkiness and the physicality. Same movement again that I described earlier. Farther/closer, only this time, you're keeping the mic close to the cabinet. Closer to the center of the speaker/farther from the center, toward the edge. These two movements make an enormous difference. Have someone play the guitar while you listen with headphones and move the mic.

 

If you have no one playing the guitar, turn the amp on loud so it hisses, then monitor through headphones and move the mic around. You can hear the hiss changing. Do you want it bright? Or darker? Or louder? Or more like it sounds like in the room? That's up to you -- this is a choice you make, and no one can tell you what's right for the song.

 

Awright, I did say two mics, right? The second one I like to use is a LDC. I put this, I don't know, probably about 3-4' back so that it captures the roar of the amp, capturing its depth and more of the complete sound as it "gathers" farther from the amp. If the room is {censored}ty, I put RealTraps sound treatment around the mic. Same thing again...I may try switching the polar positioning from omni to cardioid.

 

I sum the mix to mono and make certain that the two mics collapse to mono perfectly without thinning out the sound.

 

Now, again, I want to emphasize that I wouldn't get too hung up on mics. You can get a great sound with a number of mics. I'm not saying that gear doesn't matter or that it doesn't make a difference; it does. But I'm just saying that if you have decent quality gear, you're fine.

 

For the close dynamic mic, I've used SM 57s, 421s, and lately, Heil PR30s. For the LDC, the aforementioned AT4060 or Lawson L251. These go through either the Neve Portico or the Peavey VMP-2. Both are good mic preamps and will do the job. On the cheap, the FMR RNP, although not my first choice for big burly guitar sounds, will do just fine. It's a good quality mic preamp, and will more or less spit out what you give it. Again, don't get too hung up on gear. It's more about what you do with it, how the amp and room sounds, and where you put the mics. And obviously, the guitar player. Duh.

[UstadKhanAli]

And you know what? Honestly, I've gotten bad-ass hard rock and metal sounds by sticking an SM57 up about an inch or two from the amp > FMR RNP > FMR RNLA and that's it. You really don't need much. You move around the mic, adjust the amp's sound, move around the mic until it sounds awesome, and bang, that's it. I'm not alone in this. Some fantastic guitar sounds have been recorded with a single 57 for decades now, so as crappy as some people think the mic is, really, it's not that bad. In my opinion, the mic sounds godawful with mic preamps like the original Mackie preamps, but spring to life with higher-quality mic preamps...and I know you can say that about mics in general, but this seems to be noticeable especially with a 57...anyway, hopefully you know what I mean.

[UstadKhanAli]

If you do want to explore different options with gear, a ribbon mic, like the M160 Phil suggested, is a good way to go.

 

The Heil that I mentioned is good, and has a somewhat ribbon-like quality, but if you really want a ribbon, there is the M160 and a lot of other affordable options out there (Shinybox et al).