"Piracy Isn't Killing" music - Radiohead guy...

[Matximus]

Yeah- they exist. There's a buncha old farts that blew their social security checks on Susan Boyles album last year. Good for her; In five years' the last demographic of record buyers will be be too deaf, dead, or senile (or busy diverting funds to necessities like Depends) to buy records.

 

And don't get me started about Lady Gaga - she's effing brilliant. Music snobs are blind to anything with mass appeal. She and her team know how to put together a snappy tune (as well as - egads!!! - an entertaining show). And she is a bloody brilliant singer. Check out her Stefani Germonatta stuff on Youtube. She's going to be around a while, rightfully so. She's a superstar and I love her.

 

And this whole idea that quality music won't be produced without record-company gatekeepers is laughable. Where do you people come up with this stuff? Most great musicians are driven by passion - not profits - to make music. I've said this before: They have a burning need to create and share their work, regardless of whether it makes money or not. People will make great music for us to consume whether or not they're getting paid for it. It's a fact, jack. But it won't be up to professional recording industry standards!!! Yawn. Consumers have already spoken: most don't give a {censored} about sound quality - we're quite happy ripping tinny-sounding compressed digital files.

 

This is just the way it is.

[Dancebass]

 

And this whole idea that quality music won't be produced without record-company gatekeepers is laughable. Where do you people come up with this stuff?

 

 

It will be produced, just not heard.

 

90% of music press is revue based. 80% of press outlets will not even begin to give your product a review witout an indie-label at the very least.

 

You will not be booked at SXSW, CMJ or any major festivals without a label. You will be rejected for placements in games, tv shows, and movies without a label.

Your video will not be played on any televised video show.

Your music will not be used at sporting events, it will not be played over the speakers in stores.

You will not be featured on television shows that host live bands, Saturday Night Live, Jay Leno, etc etc.

You will not get opening slots on decently attended national tours without a label.

You will not being touring out of the country very often if you must handle the logistics yourself.

You will not get decent management for long without a label.

You will not sign with a real booking agency without a label.

 

These are facts.

[Kramerguy]

Croakus - next ...songs like will go something like this (before and after):

 

 

Woke up in the mornin' To find a note, The wife had left and got a lawyer I miss her.

 

becomes:

My SONY dual whzam (c) alarm clock got me up in the morning Just in time for my FOLGERS(c) My wife left me a note, on MEAD(C) paper, using a BIC pen, Telling me that Anderson, Cooper, and Lip{censored}z are representing her in the divorce... I think about her, wearing VICTORIAS SECRET bathrobe and OBSESSION perfume.. How she was so pretty, wearing her MAYBELLINE Eye shadow and COVERGIRL blush..

 

Great times ahead

 

Everyone thank matximus.

[Poker99]

Yeah- they exist. There's a buncha old farts that blew their social security checks on Susan Boyles album last year. Good for her; In five years' the last demographic of record buyers will be be too deaf, dead, or senile (or busy diverting funds to necessities like Depends) to buy records. And don't get me started about Lady Gaga - she's effing brilliant. Music snobs are blind to anything with mass appeal. She and her team know how to put together a snappy tune (as well as - egads!!! - an entertaining show). And she is a bloody brilliant singer. Check out her Stefani Germonatta stuff on Youtube. She's going to be around a while, rightfully so. She's a superstar and I love her. And this whole idea that quality music won't be produced without record-company gatekeepers is laughable. Where do you people come up with this stuff? Most great musicians are driven by passion - not profits - to make music. I've said this before: They have a burning need to create and share their work, regardless of whether it makes money or not. People will make great music for us to consume whether or not they're getting paid for it. It's a fact, jack. But it won't be up to professional recording industry standards!!! Yawn. Consumers have already spoken: most don't give a {censored} about sound quality - we're quite happy ripping tinny-sounding compressed digital files. This is just the way it is.

 

AH! Lets talk about Lady Gaga.

 

I never said she has no talent. What I meant is that more and more labels are investing money in pop music that are sure bets (or that are lesser risks). Lady Gaga is a prime time example of an artist that has been built with millions of dollars and sold to masses. Stefani Germonatta? Would you know about her if it wasn't for a big marketing/producing team signing her and built her into a superstar? No genious, you would not.

 

I garantee you if no one paid for music, there would be no Lady Gaga. She sold 2 millions singles of Poker Face in 2009. I guess it was all old farts discovering the internet.

[daddymack]

Kramerguy, I have to admit, your premise is probable...product placement in films is a huge business, and although it is frowned upon on TV series, 'reality' shows are already utilizing it, albeit some less obtrusively than others....Coke glasses prominently in front of the judges on AI for instance.

Perhaps getting sponsorship from corporations will be the new model for survival...time will tell...heck, this could be the premise for a scifi movie!

[Dancebass]

 

Kramerguy, I have to admit, your premise is probable...product placement in films is a huge business, and although it is frowned upon on TV series, 'reality' shows are already utilizing it, albeit some less obtrusively than others....Coke glasses prominently in front of the judges on AI for instance. Perhaps getting sponsorship from corporations will be the new model for survival...time will tell...heck, this could be the premise for a scifi movie!

 

 

Imagine what people wives are going to do with that!!

[BlueStrat]

 

Most great musicians are driven by passion - not profits - to make music.

That may well be the case.

 

Unfortunately, all the other people needed to make someone a star by getting their music out to the world are in it for the money. You don't get a Lady Gaga by promoting on myspace. She has a team of writers, producers, PR people, agents, labels, road crew, and several dozen other people she depends on to keep her going, none of whom work for free out of a passion for their jobs. And if you think for 2 seconds that she works for free out of passion for the music, you're high. Get real.

[sventvkg]

 

That may well be the case. Unfortunately, all the other people needed to make someone a star by getting their music out to the world are in it for the money. You don't get a Lady Gaga by promoting on myspace. She has a team of writers, producers, PR people, agents, labels, road crew, and several dozen other people she depends on to keep her going, none of whom work for free out of a passion for their jobs. And if you think for 2 seconds that she works for free out of passion for the music, you're high. Get real.

 

 

The less of the likes of Lady Gaga The better.

[Blackwatch]

 

The less of the likes of Lady Gaga The better.

 

 

She's just an updated version of Madona........

[nerol1st]

 

no defense of piracy but sales were up until they sued napster and then lost a great oputunity to redefine the bussines model. the record companies only want hardcopy sales. not hard to guess why and cd's were basically copy proof till cheap burners, broad band connections and Cheap high pwoered PC's came along. they still refuse to adapt and still charge hard copy prices for digital material. which is why they continue to fail.

 

 

Actually I agree, they {censored}ed up the napster thing REAL BAD. They had a golden opportunity to make some money on that and didn't. They just wanted to hang onto the old model.

[nerol1st]

I scratch my head at anyone trying to justify that they steal. Until the law changes your a {censored}ing thief, get over it. Nobody cares that your a little bastard thief who thinks people that abide by the law and buy the {censored} they listen to are old dinosaurs.

 

Don't come crying to anyone if the RIAA ever {censored}s you in the ass with a lawsuit.

 

Besides there is enough free music out that you shouldn't need to steal you twat.

[BlueStrat]

 

The less of the likes of Lady Gaga The better.

 

 

 

I agree, but the point I was making stands!

[daddymack]

 

I agree, but the point I was making stands!

Don't blame the product, blame the media and the people who live off the media...if all there was to drink on the planet was Pepsi...we'd all drink it.

Just as Madonna was manufactured, so is Lady GaGa...and so was Susan Boyle...and so on and so on...

[BlueStrat]

 

Don't blame the product, blame the media and the people who live off the media...if all there was to drink on the planet was Pepsi...we'd all drink it. Just as Madonna was manufactured, so is Lady GaGa...and so was Susan Boyle...and so on and so on...

 

 

Well, that wasn't my point either.

 

To review:

 

The idea was put forth that music should be free, and people who make music should do it out of passion.

 

My response was that anyone making music worth stealing is making music that costs money to produce, and while the artist may be inclined to work for free if it didn't pay, the people who make the music possible and good enough to steal all depend on it for their income. The idea that quality music just appears on limewire for the taking by magic is laughable. Whether one likes Lady Gaga's music is irrelevant; whether they ae manufactured talent is irrelevant. The product itself is quality in production and promotion, and took a lot of people to make it that way, none of whom do it strictly out of passion for the music.

 

Oh, and there isn't just Pesi, there is Coke, Pepsi, RC, Diet Coke, Diet Pepsi, root beer, 7 up....and still people drink Pepsi by the boatload. the issue isn't limited choice. We have more choice than ever before, in soft drinks and music, and still the top brands sell. In this age, no one is forcing anyone to listen to anything.

[nerol1st]

Since when is 26 old? "sampling"

 

Whatever you want to call it, until your willing to do it in front of the FBI and RIAA your a thief.

 

If your downloading free {censored} that was meant to be free, then good for you and good for the artist.

[CountRobula]

 

Lady Gaga rules. And Blue {censored} she'd be out there getting people off and making money whether she was lucky enough to get backed by record company or not. She's that good. And Zero Nero or whatever your name is... you're just a mean old Dinosaur. it... I don't steal music. I sample it and in the process broaden the artist's fan base, which is only a good thing. I'm doing them a favor. Pharrell agrees with me: http://www.zeropaid.com/news/87877/pharrell-williams-illegal-downloading-is-just-taste-testing/ Everyday more artists are coming around to truth that free downloads is great for music; I'm gonna take my cues from big time money makers over a bunch of crotchedy old farts...

 

 

Personally, Lady Gaga's music is absolute {censored} to me. She's trying hard to be weird for weird's sake, with no actual substance behind any of it. It's like a guy recording himself squealing like a pig into a mic with loads of feedback thinking he's groundbreaking and "deep". Pop queen my ass.. I could play the piano better than her with my penis. Let's not get into this, though. I just personally find nothing redeeming about her music, and if I saw her in the streets, I'd thank her for making worthless music.

 

So, the only "true" artists are the starving artists? {censored} you, man. I'm sure that the people most suited for making "professional" music, as in, music that the majority couldn't make and people would gladly pay for because they put value in it and WANT to support the artist, well, they'd be in a rented apartment or their parent's basement eating spaghettios and drinking themselves to sleep every night for the rest of their financially unstable life because they sacrificed and worked towards making for something special and valuable to some inconsiderate parasitic ingrate. How is listening and expanding a fan base worth anything if the fan's won't help the artist have something to eat?

 

It's like a legion of people who follow a musical artist, even go out to see him play and hang out with him afterwards, but don't actually pay for anything, and leave him to his cardboard box down the street because he can't be supported from something that there is a demand for. I'm not saying everyone should be entitled to this, but if you have a product that people are coming out for or show interest in, it doesn't have to be free, and it shouldn't be, unless you're rich and want people to perceive music as some hobby with little actual value.

 

Think about it this way; A beggar can go around the streets of a city and shake people down for some quick bucks, but a performing artist/busker who plays to a crowd that is really into it won't put a dollar into his hat.. or they'll just steal the hat. Kinda like the music industry nowadays when you think about it. You're the filthy parasite beggar stealing the hat. It's not like these artists are entitled to money, but if there's a crowd, and they aren't filthy beggars shaking people down, then what's the problem? I hope this was a good way to put it.. lol

 

If you still feel the way you do, that's fine, if you want 95% of the music out there to be amateur myspace solo acoustic electronica hipster {censored} from some weekend warriors' laptop mic. You get what you put in; And in this case, nothing. At least go out and BUY something from them.

[Matximus]

I like your style CR. I don't agree with you, though.

 

You really should give Gaga another shot. I hated her at first too, but I checked out her whole album to see what it was all about. She has some sick hooks in there. I liked it well enough that I ... I can't believe I'm going to cop to this after all the {censored} I've been shovelling .. I actually paid for some her downloads to get the best quality. I'm a horrible thief and hypocrite... God help me.

 

And I never would have discovered how awesome she was had I not ripped her tunes from freedownload sites first. I'm not saying it always works out that way...But it happens.

[CountRobula]

Well, I usually listen to some of an artist before I pay for their album, but it's not always like that, and I ALWAYS buy the album or something of the band's afterwards. I simply don't have the money, and can't get a job until next year, so I spend the money my parents throw me.

 

I don't really have anything against you, but you are coming off a bit as an ass from some of these posts. I simply disagree.

 

Well, I guess you've spent SOME money, right? I just think it's stupid and childishly stubborn to go off on a rant about how "real artists should be giving their music away for free" or whatever it was you were saying to that effect.. As an artist, I wish I could do that, but I won't have a pot to piss in afterwards and would probably play at {censored}ty venues because I can't get a bigger audience to spend money on me in real-time, or over the internet or whatever.

 

Hey, I never state my opinions as facts. Maybe I'm wrong, and if so, I'll change my mind when people give me a reason or viewpoint that makes me think differently about something.

 

And against my better judgement, because I'm a pushover at heart, I'll try listening to some of her stuff. I'll even go so far as to admit that they may not be entirely manufactured and may have even an OUNCE of talent, but I won't admit that her music is all that original. Maybe catchy with some nice hooks that I've probably heard in slightly different variations over the years, but nothing that different. I'll still check her out when I can.

[Matximus]

Right on. Right on.

 

To be fair: I always state my opinions as facts, which yeah, kind of makes me an ass, I guess.

 

And please don't go out and buy any Lady Gaga just yet. I really love her, but I find my taste in music is trending toward pretty lightweight cheeseball pop as I get older...Maybe my brain is decaying.

 

Stay classy.

[CountRobula]

It's all good, man. It's not a big deal.

 

And yeah, maybe your brain IS decaying. You never know, man. Might wanna get that checked out. lol

 

I'll still give her a listen or two. I'm actually genuinely curious, as I've never even really listened to a whole pop song with any real focus on it. It'd be a new, probably painful, experience.

[Wolfgang2049]

The guys from radiohead are selfish DBs living in a drug induced shell. The fact is, it doesn't hurt them, so they think it is ok. It only hurts the newer bands. Radiohead still has a fanbase that buys their albums like they always did. Added onto to that are the kids that steal the stuff, but pay for a ticket to a show or maybe a t-shirt. So ya, it is great for them. The rest of us just have the kids that steal the stuff, but we aren't big enough to make a killing off of ticket sales and t-shirts. We don't have that old loyal fanbase that doesn't steal either. It hurts us, plain and {censored}ing simple.

 

Would you people that think stealing my music is OK steal my CD from a store? Rob my house and steal one? The answer is probably no for most of you. Why is it ok to do it on the web? It is the same {censored}ing thing folks.

[nerol1st]

 

And I never would have discovered how awesome she was had I not ripped her tunes from freedownload sites first. I'm not saying it always works out that way...But it happens.

 

 

You would have to be a complete {censored}ing idiot to not "discover" Gaga. She is all over the {censored}ing music industry right now. Quite being a douche you {censored}ing thief.

[soundwave106]

 

You would have to be a complete {censored}ing idiot to not "discover" Gaga. She is all over the {censored}ing music industry right now. Quite being a douche you {censored}ing thief.

 

 

Lady Gaga's one thing, but 99% of bands out there don't get played on major radio... *shrug* Fortunately, Youtube etc. trumps file-sharing sites these days in many ways, as far as music discovery is concerned.

 

Technically, if a someone uploads a fan vid of a song to Youtube and shares it with everyone, it's *also* copyright infringement. But I hear a lot less of the "{censored}ing thief" gnashing of the teeth. (Probably because, unless you are good with tech, it results in no permanent file on the hard drives... and since MTV has gone to {censored} with reality shows, something's got to take the place of music vids...)

 

Copyright is a funny thing. It ain't wearing the digital age very well.

 

Oh, and Lady Gaga writes decent dumb, catchy synth pop. There's nothing wrong with writing dumb, catchy synth pop. Not very original, but what is? She knows what she's doing. I've seen clips of her playing the piano, and they are intentionally showy as hell per her persona, but she can play okay enough.

[BlueStrat]

 

If pickup trucks didn't sell, Ford wouldn't build them. If people stopped buying Big Macs, McDonald's would go out of business. The music industry is no different. If people didn't buy Lady GaGa (3 million copies was the last figure I heard) they would not spend money promoting her. I'm sorry that you don't like what's currently popular; neither do I. But that's what people are buying and the only way for a company to stay in business is to sell it. If you would prefer to hear something else on the radio and TV the best possible thing you could do is go out and buy the album of someone you think is good and to encourage all your friends to do the same.

 

 

Well, we seem to be stuck in two camps here: one side says that the public guys whatever is shoved down the throats of the consumer. The other side says that the market determines what gets produced and only sells what people want to buy.

 

So, who's right?

 

I say they both are. It's true, someone like a Lady Gaga sells a bazillion records, but then again, look where the promo dollars are going. The are all aimed at the same demographic. All of the top selling people are of the same ilk- Brittne, Lady Gaga, Pink, Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Jonas Bros...all pretty much mass appeal, smarmy and vapid pop. Why? because that demographic is what's spending the money. So in turn, those are the acts that get pimped by the industry, and we keep getting more of the same. Used to be, record companies took the money they made from Michael Jackson or Madonna and put a big chunk of it into developing and promoting an INXS or Stevie Ray Vaughan. But not anymore. That money goes into finding and hyping the next Pink, or Brittney or LG. In short, the hype machine is all about self-replicating and keeping the cash cow alive, because it's the only one left.

 

Most other genres have smaller fan bases, and cannot overcome the effects of piracy and file sharing with sheer volume in sales the way teeny pop can. Ultimately, we have reaped what we've sown. I said it 5 years ago, that if file sharing ever became the norm, all we'd be seeing is the most generic common denominator pop being made and promoted. It didn't take Nostradamus to see it. And here we are.

 

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll say it again for the umpteenth time: Until the producers of music regain control of distribution of their product, we will see the continued 'massification' of commercial music.

[S.L.B.]

 

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'll say it again for the umpteenth time: Until the producers of music regain control of distribution of their product, we will see the continued 'massification' of commercial music.

 

 

Then again maybe sales are down for other reasons. When you see statistics like Piracy only accounting for 6%-12% of the loss in sales, it makes you wonder.

 

I think the oversaturation of bands, the declining costs of competing media(namely DVD's and the Video Game markets) Rising costs of seeing live music(Ticketmaster), and lack of diversity(just look at the Album of the year nominees at the grammys) being promoted in music have combined to form the perfect storm.