"This is a Business Band, not a Party Band".

[phaeton]

Well, our meeting has been postponed yet again. This is starting to be a recurrent theme. *scratches head*

Bandleader guy said the drummer flaked out, and since this is his second time of not showing up, the third strike means he's out of the band.

 

I guess it *is* a job. Oh well. I tend to be naturally dependable, so I'm not too concerned.

 

I'm starting to wonder, anyways....my gut feeling is that this guy is just blowing smoke up my ayse and/or has more enthusiasm to do what he wants to do than ability. Dunno. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

 

But if it comes together, it might be a great learning experience. Hell, it'll be a great learning experience even if it falls apart horribly. We'll see.

 

Nonetheless, I'm not deterred. Still interested, and still appreciative of everyone's thoughts and ideas- past, present, future.

 

Marcus, that Vox pedal sounds like a cool project. I'm sure that your Mike d00d has dibs on helping you out, but I bet that ole R.G. would be all over it too

I just moved so I've been busy with all that crap, but I think I might be able to sit down soon and breadboard some of these several dozen ideas i've got swimming in my head.

[philbo]

Y'know, I have to admit my first reply was based entirely on how I would feel about doing this. For lots of other people, it would be a great experience:

 

1) Builds your chops (learning new material) & imposes the discipline that forces you to practice very regularly.

2) Exposure to the the experiences (good & bad) of performing live.

3) Exposure to the need for handling business (contracts, getting paid, covering expenses, stuff like that.)

4) Exposes the public (at least a few... ok, maybe only the bartender) to your musical ability and professionalism, such as they may be.

 

I did all this years ago, and it has little appeal to me now... but for many people, it might be a real growth experience.

[Marcus Dahl]

Originally posted by phaeton Well, our meeting has been postponed yet again . This is starting to be a recurrent theme. *scratches head* Bandleader guy said the drummer flaked out, and since this is his second time of not showing up, the third strike means he's out of the band. I guess it *is* a job. Oh well. I tend to be naturally dependable, so I'm not too concerned. I'm starting to wonder, anyways....my gut feeling is that this guy is just blowing smoke up my ayse and/or has more enthusiasm to do what he wants to do than ability. Dunno. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out. But if it comes together, it might be a great learning experience. Hell, it'll be a great learning experience even if it falls apart horribly. We'll see. Nonetheless, I'm not deterred. Still interested, and still appreciative of everyone's thoughts and ideas- past, present, future. Marcus , that Vox pedal sounds like a cool project. I'm sure that your Mike d00d has dibs on helping you out, but I bet that ole R.G. would be all over it too I just moved so I've been busy with all that crap, but I think I might be able to sit down soon and breadboard some of these several dozen ideas i've got swimming in my head.

 

It is a cool project. I'll know more about what I'm doing with it during this next week. I pretty much just need to do the enclosure layout now. RG would be a help, but I like to do things on my own.

 

Congrates on the move, and I hope you get back to bread boarding some stuff

[phaeton]

but I like to do things on my own.

 

Understood.

[phaeton]

So I went to meet up with the bandleader d00d today. First thing he mentions is that the keyboard player is out, because he's a chronic pot head and a jackass. He doesn't seem real worried about it though. "I know lots a keyboard and bass players. I'd rather play keys myself and hire a bassist anyways."

 

Anyways... I sat and talked to him for awhile, about bands and gigs and equipment and shows and band drama and stuff. It was actually a pretty fun time, and after talking with him I'm more comfortable with the situation. It's not as awkward nor as hokey as it seemed before. He's got about 30 years of stories to tell. We didn't play anything but we're scheduled to sit down tomorrow and go over the chord charts and stuff.

 

He gave me a couple of cds- one has six of the cover tunes on it, and another has a bunch of his original stuff. I didn't get to listen to them until I left. And well... at first glance they're not my cup o' tea. I would call them "1980s dance club hits". Kool And The Gang, Commodores, etc. Relaively monotonous electronic drums, sappy, corny lyrics, few real chord changes. Pretty lame, IMHO. There, I said it.

 

There was a Doobie Bros. song on there- i think it's called "Talk About Loooooooo oooooo ooooo ooove". Yeah, you've all heard it 10000 times. This is only 6 of a reputed 100 song repertoire, so maybe there are 'better' things to come.

 

So I guess I get to decide if I want to sell my soul. I'm not crazy about the songs, but they hardly have any guitar in them, and they'd be pretty simple to learn and play. Huge rests between short sputterings of chords means I can probably play a whole set without ANY tendonitis flareup. The song selection is tailored to get people to dance, and they probably will accomplish just that. People dance, buy lots of drinks, we get paid, everyone's happy.

 

As a musician, I'm struggling with the personal morals of "selling out" to play covers i'm not in love with. I might grow to like them, though I doubt that. I don't *abhor* these songs, but they're not something I'd ever buy or listen to otherwise.

 

As a capitalist, it seems like easy money. Easier than getting a second job, which would mean doing a bunch of stuff i REALLY didn't like. I just bought a house, and I don't know if i'll *need* the money, but I sure would *like* it. Why let DJs get all the cash? Hell, if it works out like ole Dan says it will, I can quit my day job and be a *gasp* PROFESSIONAL MUSICIAN....

 

 

*sigh*

 

Any thoughts?

[Lee Flier]

Sorry I haven't responded until now... but anyway... I've played in bands like this. Yes, the money is feasible. Yes, it's very tightly regimented and you have to play "what the people want" which means the stuff you've heard on the radio a zillion times too many. On the plus side: the pay is good, there's always a good crowd dancing, it will help you ramp your chops up to fighting form and get performing again without all the head trips. You'll know exactly what is expected of you and who's the boss.

 

I wouldn't quit your day job for it, though, if you want to eventually return to something more creative/original. When I was doing it (and I was real young then), I could have made a living full time at it and did for awhile, but playing 4 to 6 nights a week of the same ol' same ol' gets old FAST. Sure, you're working at music which seems like it'd be more fun than IT, but... well, most of us think sex is fun too, and I likened playing in this type of band to being a hooker all day and then going home and trying to enjoy sex with your husband. It was killing the joy of playing for me, I never wrote songs, etc.

 

So I would say: sure, do it for awhile. Everybody ought to, it's great experience and good money. But it probably won't satisfy you as more than an occasional thing for extra money, so I wouldn't become too dependent on it for income. That's my .02.

[Marcus Dahl]

I've been told plenty of times : "Playing music is the hardest way to make an easy living." I really believe this too. I play songs that I could really do without. Lord knows how many times I've played Mustange Sally in one night, but if the crowd is enjoying the tunes, I'm enjoying myself. To me music is a three way street. YOu have to give a little and get the crowd on your side. That means playing songs that has been way over played. Making sure the client is happy and satisfied, and the client is not just the club owner, but the crowd too. If all of the above is meet, and I can do a few tunes I like, then I'm happy.

[phaeton]

"Mustang Sally"

 

Gawd I hate that song. I don't even see how it could have gotten popular to start with, but....

 

 

So he flaked again. For someone that keeps pining "gotta have it together", he sure doesn't have it together.

 

We had a scheduled practice today, and he called me to tell me to 'sit tight' and he'd call me right back as soon as he got an 'ok' from the landlord to jam at his shop. Never heard from him. Starting to look kinda hokey again.

 

I dunno guys. Today I feel like taking a "pass" on this whole thing.

 

Sorry to copy/paste this in two forum simultaneously.

[Marcus Dahl]

 

Originally posted by phaeton "Mustang Sally" Gawd I hate that song. I don't even see how it could have gotten popular to start with, but.... So he flaked again. For someone that keeps pining "gotta have it together", he sure doesn't have it together. We had a scheduled practice today, and he called me to tell me to 'sit tight' and he'd call me right back as soon as he got an 'ok' from the landlord to jam at his shop. Never heard from him. Starting to look kinda hokey again. I dunno guys. Today I feel like taking a "pass" on this whole thing. Sorry to copy/paste this in two forum simultaneously.

 

 

It doesn't sound like he's got it together. On something like that, with first impressions, it would all he wrote. I wouldn't wait around for him. Reliability and honesty is a must if I'm going to work with anybody. Been there done that, got the t-shirt. He'll just jerk you around for his own convenience. Most of the guys I've dealt with like that have a gambling or coke problem along with reliability issues, insecurity, emotional problems, and relationship issues. This is a soap opera waiting to happen.

[boosh]

I know bands like this...

They run a tight schedule of at least one practise each week on the same day at the same time.

No one ever shows up late or misses a rehearsal. And why not? Because it's their job.

The way these guys do it they will never form a tight band in my opinion. If even the bandleader doesn't call you when he says he will he could never expect from his team to be professional.

 

Drop this I say,... The guy sounds like all talk but no play.

[Lee Knight]

Loser. I say he's a loser. He's pointing fingers at people left and right. A pro would have been a little more discreet regarding people he had to can. He's just a bag of wind making excuses and pointing fingers.

 

He a loser... run away.

[phaeton]

Agreed. I just don't see the amount of professionalism in him that he claims is necessary.

 

He's 100% correct in the claims, he's just not practicing what he's preaching. He can sing and play, and he has songwriting talent. His music isn't my cup o tea either, but it's well done and it would drop right in with the Cameo/Commodores/Kool In The Gang/Rick James genre and do just as well. AFAIK the 1980s are about prime for nostalgia pickins. He could stand to be pretty successful at this if he'd get it together.

 

He's just not an act to follow. I'm not going to call him back. I'll wait for him to call me, and when he does I'll just set up a time or place where I can give his CDs back to him.

 

Thanks to everyone for helping me chew the fat.

[TrancedelicBlues]

Originally posted by phaeton AFAIK the 1980s are about prime for nostalgia pickins.

 

This is true.

 

People who like 60s and 70s music are getting too old to dance...

[2manband]

****DISCLAIMER******

 

This is opinion only - flame on

 

********************

 

As a club/bar goer, I can't stand seeing a night of record perfect dance happy pop cover songs. I'd rather go to the dentist. I want a band that's dynamic, interesting, original - plays some covers but picks "hey, cool, I remember that one" kind of tunes instead of "Here we go again" kind of tunes. I want a band with it's own signature sound that is imparted on cover material and comes shining through on the originals. I want to see musicians, not monkeys.

 

As a musician, I'd rather do anything but play in record perfect cover band. What's the point? Sure you make some $ doing it, but take out what you spend updating/maintaining your gear, and divide it by the number of hours you put into practicing at home, setting FX patches, rehearsing, driving, setup, playing, teardown, more driving, etc. and you can (in many cases) make about as much $/hour working at Kinkos. Not to mention, it's not really taking you where I'd guess 99% would ideally like to go - What record exec. is going to come in and dig on how well you nailed that change in "Sweet Home Alabama" - How many cover bands ever get major label deals?

 

I say that as a musician you should work on your writing and playing ability, record, play out, jam and bounce ideas off of other musicians. You may just start something big - and if you don't, I bet you had fun anyway. There's a serious drought of originality in music right now, and cover bands arent' helping the problem.

 

Am I the only one who feels this way?

[Lee Knight]

 

Originally posted by 2manband ****DISCLAIMER****** This is opinion only - flame on ******************** As a club/bar goer, I can't stand seeing a night of record perfect dance happy pop cover songs. I'd rather go to the dentist. I want a band that's dynamic, interesting, original - plays some covers but picks "hey, cool, I remember that one" kind of tunes instead of "Here we go again" kind of tunes. I want a band with it's own signature sound that is imparted on cover material and comes shining through on the originals. I want to see musicians, not monkeys. As a musician, I'd rather do anything but play in record perfect cover band. What's the point? Sure you make some $ doing it, but take out what you spend updating/maintaining your gear, and divide it by the number of hours you put into practicing at home, setting FX patches, rehearsing, driving, setup, playing, teardown, more driving, etc. and you can (in many cases) make about as much $/hour working at Kinkos. Not to mention, it's not really taking you where I'd guess 99% would ideally like to go - What record exec. is going to come in and dig on how well you nailed that change in "Sweet Home Alabama" - How many cover bands ever get major label deals? I say that as a musician you should work on your writing and playing ability, record, play out, jam and bounce ideas off of other musicians. You may just start something big - and if you don't, I bet you had fun anyway. There's a serious drought of originality in music right now, and cover bands arent' helping the problem. Am I the only one who feels this way?

 

 

No you're not the only one. I'm on both sides really. It all comes down to how it will benefit the person.

 

Do you need to tighten up some skills?

Do you need money?

Do you need a creative outlet instead?

Are you starved for playing with good musicians and you can only find them in this cover band in your area?

Do you enjoy it?

Do you hate it?

 

I don't like shutting out ideas based on prejudice. "Friends do not let friends play in cover bands", etc. Most of the guys walking around with smirks on their faces muttering this crap can't play! I

[blackpig]

I like to hear a cover band putting their own spin on classic songs and tunes. E.G. U2 playing "C'mon Everybody" or Neil Young's version of Don Gibson's "Oh Lonesome Me". When playing with an Irish trad group about 20 years ago we used to throw in the odd Beatles or Bob Dylan song played with fiddles and pipes as backing. The crowd used to go mental for it.

 

The guy running the band now sounds like more of a dickhead than he did earlier. It seems he aspires to running a pro band but he doesn't seem to have a pro attitude - he seems very scattered and disorganized. Professionalism is not just about how much money you make or how shiny your '57 Strat is.

[Saxman7]

I can never figure out who's more to blame, the people who love note for note renditions of popular songs, or the "musicians" who play them...

 

Actually, I HAVE figured it out, and it's the MUSICIANS! I have been a bandleader for thirty years, of all different size ensembles, and various genres. Mostly, we fall under the umbrella of "jazz", but we do songs from whatever & wherever we feel, be it Marley, EW&F, or ELP..

 

Since we do mainly instrumentals (varying the amount of vocals depending on the gig), whether we play Coltrane or Santana, it's done with our sound & feel. I've played countless corporate functions, weddings, parties, etc., and altho we play alot of tunes that are/were very popular, they are rarely from the "Top 30 Wedding/Party Tunes", and NEVER "note-for-note"!

 

For me, doing replications, and doing them consistantly, and constantly, is a fate worse than death. Now I know, and have no disrespect for those who are fine with that, but I simply am not wired like that. I literally would rather go to law school than have to do that, it would make me physically ill.....

 

Which is why I can't figure out WHY we musicians are such wimps, maybe we are too insecure to think that we can play a familiar tune in our own way, and still have people dig it? I have not run into dissatisfied audiences, or people complaining that they didn't hear a certain lick or horn line, I mean really. They want to be entertained, and they do like familiarity, but get real guys, MOST of the original artists DO NOT PLAY THESE TUNES NOTE FOR NOTE.....cause THEY would go crazy!

 

I did a rare side-man gig this New Years. The bandleader had some great players, very experienced, and able to "wing-it" quite well. However, he tried to have the band rehearse doing way too many songs, as close to the recorded version as possible. It was wack, and a waste of time & energy, cause once the night came, we just jammed out, had the crowd dancing from the first song, played familiar tunes, but very opened up, with plenty of soloing. They loved it, we rocked, and all was good. NO ONE COMPLAINED THEY WEREN'T NOTE FOR NOTE!

 

I really, really think if everyone just didn't do it, that whole concept would fade into the sunset....

 

Altho, I guess, to be honest, there ARE those players, who are technically fine, but would be unable to "go with the flow", and as someone mentioned, if it's not a GOOD different version, then that's even worse....

 

So, I guess, to each his own.....as a wise Yaqui Indian used to say, "Follow the path with HEART"...

 

peace out.

[d. gauss]

>

 

exactly. ever see dylan? same song: it's a ballad one night, a rocker the next, then it's cheesey mambo...

[Roysterbass]

I'm in a little different place than most of the posters here. I'm actually a working Professional Musician/Music Teacher and have been one for over 30 years in 3 Major Metropolitan Areas. Currently, I teach full-time at a Commercial Music Department in a University in a major US city and gig in 6 bands or so.

The Commercial (Dance) Band I gig in works in sizes from 6 to 15 pieces and plays everything from Old Big Band to Rap. Basic dress black as the bandleader described is the absolute minimum we wear on the gigs, since we sometimes have to wear suits or even tuxedos. We have arrangements that are close to the records, but we also have 3 front singers that work with and entertain the crowd. We have arrangements but at any point they can open up for solos, segue into other tunes, etc. What makes this band work (and we work 6-8 times a month for anywhere between $200-450 a gig) is the deep songlist, the good front entertainers, and the booking skills of the bandleader who is in his 50s and has been doing this since he was 14.

Letter-perfect arrangements with no interaction or entertainment don't work-I did that in my 20s and invested 4-5 rehearsals a week and no one cared how close to the record our Foreigner, Styx, or Brothers Johnson renditions were. The thing we missed was the crowd interaction. While having a business-like attitude is a great thing, don't forget that what you can bring to an event that a DJ can't is interaction and entertainment along with the spontaniety and drive of a real band.

BTW, the other 5 bands I play in run the gamut from Straight-ahead Jazz and Jazz Fusion to Progressive Rock, but since I'm making a decent amount of money with the Commercial Dance Band, the amount of money I make with the "Fun" bands isn't so important. That way, I can use the "Fun" bands to advance whatever musical styles I want to learn, and play and hopefully record and release CDs with.

Best of Luck Everyone!

Peace,

Roysterbass

[Roysterbass]

Now that I've read the entire thread, it seems that Phaeton's adventure was based on contact with a player who had ambitions of doing the Corporate /Party Band route, but no idea of how to get there.

One thing I forgot to mention about the Dance Band gig I do-every chair on the gig (drummer, singer, keys, whatever) is 3-4 players deep. In a Corporate Gig like that in a Major Metropolitan area, the players are often doing Sessions, Musicals, or Tours from time to time as well as (gasp!) even working with other Bands!

The Note-for-Note Bunch I worked with over 25 years ago would get bent out of shape if I took another gig with a Piano Player...."You're working with someone else? Does this mean you've quit the band?" It's like that ol' "let's be the next Beatles-one for all and all for one" stuff that can make Fun Bands good Social Clubs (I'm not knocking that-I'm in a couple of those) but not necessarily the best way to make money in the short term. I guess the point of my first post-why not do both? You can have Fun and Make Money in two (or more) different bands-lots of people do.

Peace,

[dano69]

I've been playing these types of gigs for many years now. I've gone through periods where I've hated it, but now I just appreciate having a steady gig where I actually get to make money playing.

 

Here's the key: have other musical outlets in your life. If all you're doing is playing weddings/corporate gigs, it gets very stale. If however, you play the money gigs, plus do some studio sessions, plus write your own music, plus do a little teaching, plus fill in with other bands, etc., the corporate stuff just becomes another facet of your musical life.

 

These types of gigs aren't for everyone. If it really makes you miserable, you shouldn't do it

[Your Guitarist]

Great post...and responses!

 

I play in a cover band. While we do stay pretty faithful to the original versions there is also a fair amount ot reinterpretation and improvisation. I am not convinced that the average "Joe and Jane" are really able to tell that you played that keyboard part on the guitar. (I have to cover keyboard parts a lot, and we only sequence about 20% of the songs.) Most important for us is to play fun songs, excute them well (whether or not we are attempting to copy the recorded versions ), and generally create a party atmosphere with the audience, which includes acting zaney on stage, hamming it up a bit and getting the audience to participate. We do very well considering the market.

 

This may sound odd but I enjoy learning other people's songs and other guitarists' solos. I have learned a lot about song writing this way. As a guitarist I am always looking to learn new things ( licks, riffs, whatever) to play. It seems that I can always find a least some little thing to throw into my "bag of tricks" no matter what the song.

 

Check out www.shelleyduffband.com There's a video there too!

 

Your Guitarist

[smokinjoet]

A general reply to this subject ...

Many of us probably started out in music in the school system - It doesn't get much more structured that that - Marching band, concert band, uniforms, etc...

school gigs were my first exposure to the rush of live performance - nothing can replace it!

For years, I did the club scene, and it was fun to be the "outlaw" musician that would blow through town, rock out, and be gone -

Now that I'm the family man, more regular gigs are appropriate, so I do orchestra pit gigs with a local actors guild.

Yes, there aren't as many clingy groupies or hazy 5th sets, but there are many rewards - - -

I have found the level of musicianship to be much higher in these settings - I have gained many valuable lessons from very experienced musicians, and the important parts of why we want to be musicans are still there - the companionship of other musicians and that rush of live performance -

To paraphrase a quote I heard elsewhere, the worst day on a gig still beats the best day at your day job ... Just play all you can, learn from it, and enjoy it! Hope this helps! Joe

[tcatsdad]

Amateur and Professional.

 

By all means, If you fit in with the band, go for it, and take pride in your approach to the gig.

 

 

I know guys who have made a decent living doing the corporate cover band thing, no harm in it, and it keeps you out in front of an audience.

 

Work on your own stuff on the side, rake in the dough, and don't look back.

[phaeton]

Thanks again for everyone's responses. Even though my bit of the story has ended, there is still plenty mroe to be said on the subject.

 

Fwiw, the guy said he'd call me back last week. I didn't hear from him till last night, where he told me to meet him at some club for an impromptu jam- the sort of "unrehearsed" thing he's been saying he wants to get away from. Told me to "bring da bass guitar!".

 

I don't play bass. Maybe he's more screwed up than I thought, or has me confused with someone else.