Members Super 8 Posted January 19, 2006 Members Share Posted January 19, 2006 For what it's worth Phaeton, I'd jam with ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phaeton Posted January 19, 2006 Author Members Share Posted January 19, 2006 Originally posted by Super 8 For what it's worth Phaeton, I'd jam with ya. In Jamsville, er... Jainesville? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted January 20, 2006 Members Share Posted January 20, 2006 Been there and done it. It's a great environment to learn in, and it can pay very well indeed. Back when I did that sorta thing there were weekends where I played five gigs - lotsa $$$ for doing something you love. I scanned some of the 'objections' mentioned in this thread. One of 'em leaps out at me - that people pay you to "bring personality" and therefore simply playing the tunes perfectly doesn't cut it. That if folks wanted perfection, they'd hire a DJ. To them, I say this: 30 years ago it was de riguer to have a band at a wedding. The last FOUR weddings I've attended had no band, but had a DJ! Anyone wanna guess why? Yep - because then the client can count on the music being played perfectly! They don't have to bother with some idiot musician's ego getting in the way of their wedding day. Playing in a business band requires something many musicians resist: professionalism. It means you go to rehearsal, and you actually rehearse instead of sitting around BSing. It means you get to the gig early so you may set up wihout impacting the client's function. It means you play the music as the client expects it. I'll admit it wore me down after awhile. I got to where I stopped loving the music, and that's when I stopped doing that scene. My current band, after playing prog mostly for our own enjoyment, is heading in that business direction. I'm ready for it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Saxman7 Posted January 20, 2006 Members Share Posted January 20, 2006 Originally posted by coyote-1 Been there and done it. I scanned some of the 'objections' mentioned in this thread. One of 'em leaps out at me - that people pay you to "bring personality" and therefore simply playing the tunes perfectly doesn't cut it. That if folks wanted perfection, they'd hire a DJ. To them, I say this: 30 years ago it was de riguer to have a band at a wedding. The last FOUR weddings I've attended had no band, but had a DJ! Anyone wanna guess why? Yep - because then the client can count on the music being played perfectly! They don't have to bother with some idiot musician's ego getting in the way of their wedding day. Playing in a business band requires something many musicians resist: professionalism. It means you go to rehearsal, and you actually rehearse instead of sitting around BSing. It means you get to the gig early so you may set up wihout impacting the client's function. It means you play the music as the client expects it. I think you are quite right, people want professionalism, and well-played music. However, you can be, and provide all that, without playing the tunes note-for-note. I know, cause that's what my band does on every gig. I've yet to have someone ever complain that a tune wasn't to the letter.... As for the slew of DJs replacing bands, it's for a couple different reasons. Of course, there is the professionalism, and "insurance" that all the music will sound good. Plus, many DJ's are also very entertaining, so they are providing what a front person, & MC, would be doing as well. One other factor, is that they can hear a wide variety of music, without running into a live band that can play some grooves well, but not others. I've experienced bands trying to play tunes that they never should have even attempted, as it was so far from their capability... And, the BIG ONE, is that a DJ is going to COST a great deal less than a professional, great sounding live band! There's not too much any musician can do about that.....it's just the "economic reality" of life today. I'll admit it wore me down after awhile. I got to where I stopped loving the music, and that's when I stopped doing that scene. My current band, after playing prog mostly for our own enjoyment, is heading in that business direction. I'm ready for it again. So, bottom line, you do agree it can take it's toll on your heart & soul...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Super 8 Posted January 20, 2006 Members Share Posted January 20, 2006 Originally posted by coyote-1 To them, I say this: 30 years ago it was de riguer to have a band at a wedding. The last FOUR weddings I've attended had no band, but had a DJ! Anyone wanna guess why? Yep - because then the client can count on the music being played perfectly! Sorry, I don't buy that for a minute. The reason people hire DJ's is because most bands suck and sound awful.I was just talking to a girl who was so pissed off that the band at her company Christmas party played nothing but "hard rock and AC/DC". I agreed with her, I think she should be pissed. DJ's can easily play modern songs that most bands either cannot or simply refuse to play. Most party bands have the same repertoire and rarely add to it or deviate from it.This became painfully clear to me one night during a break at a corporate gig when I stepped out on the balcony and heard the band in the next room playing the same set we had just finished. It's mediocrity. I don't blame people for hiring DJ's. It's okay to challenge yourself, and your audience. Do something different. Surprise your audience. It's okay to take chances with the songs, to mix it up, and be creative. BUT, you have to be tasteful, and you have to sound polished. No DJ could ever compete with a good band, but most bands aren't very good. It has nothing to do with note-perfect renditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Saxman7 Posted January 21, 2006 Members Share Posted January 21, 2006 Originally posted by Super 8 Sorry, I don't buy that for a minute. The reason people hire DJ's is because most bands suck and sound awful.DJ's can easily play modern songs that most bands either cannot or simply refuse to play.Most party bands have the same repertoire and rarely add to it or deviate from it.This became painfully clear to me one night during a break at a corporate gig when I stepped out on the balcony and heard the band in the next room playing the same set we had just finished.It's mediocrity. I don't blame people for hiring DJ's.It's okay to challenge yourself, and your audience. Do something different. Surprise your audience. It's okay to take chances with the songs, to mix it up, and be creative. BUT, you have to be tasteful, and you have to sound polished.No DJ could ever compete with a good band, but most bands aren't very good. It has nothing to do with note-perfect renditions. Yes, exactly! That's why I almost never (maybe a couple times a year) do gigs as a sideman with a typical wedding/corporate band. The "note-for-note" aspect is bad enough, but the fact that they all PLAY THE SAME DAMN SONGS is infuriatingly astounding! I mean COME ON, we are creative people, even if you are going to do a gig of all covers, why not pick some OTHER songs that are just as well known, just as good to dance to, but just not "the same 37 songs" (as someone here calls this phenomenon).... I mean, there have been thousands of great tunes (or even pretty good ones) written & recorded over the last 30-40 years, but judging from most "business bands", you'd never know it... Even as a teen, whenever I went to see the great bands of the day, I always wanted to see them take-off from the recorded version, do a different arrangement, groove, or just to jam out on it. Those very, very few that didn't were a big disappointment, which is why I rarely go to shows today, as so much performance now, is more "show" than music....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Meatball Fulton Posted January 30, 2006 Members Share Posted January 30, 2006 Originally posted by Saxman7 if you are going to do a gig of all covers, why not pick some OTHER songs that are just as well known, just as good to dance to, but just not "the same 37 songs" Funny thing happened last Friday, 2nd gig playing bass in a band with some friends. They have been together about 2 years but kept going through drummers, so their bassist switched to drums and they asked me to come on board. I brought in 4 new songs, we did all of them Friday. People got up on the floor and danced. My bandmates were perplexed..."People NEVER dance when we play" One was a well known cover (Neil Young's "Like A Hurricane"), one was more obscure ("Marie Marie" by the Blasters) and the other two I bet most folks here can't place: "Guard My Heart" and "My Home Is In My Hand". I looked at what songs they were doing already and figured out what sort of tunes were needed to round out the sets. I guess I made the right call I've got some more on deck, all obscure covers that fit the band's strengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members coyote-1 Posted January 30, 2006 Members Share Posted January 30, 2006 I said: Yep - because then the client can count on the music being played perfectly! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Super 8 said: The reason people hire DJ's is because most bands suck and sound awful. In a way, we are saying the same thing. The band at your friend's company's party is NOT what I was talking about. A band that sucks at playing AC/DC has NOTHING to do with a wedding band full of pros. The person who booked that band shoulders the blame there. Unfortunately, it IS the same thing though. Because even in wedding orchestras, you get egos who decide this is gonna be their star turn and they overshadow the bride. Or you get an idiot drummer who drinks on the job and can't hold a steady dance groove. Or whatever. But realize that to most folks, even if a band that created a hit plays it at all differently in concert than on record those folks are disappointed. So to them, a band that "sucks and sounds awful" is any band that sound like the original recording. In any event, you and I are in agreement - whether you know it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roysterbass Posted February 14, 2006 Members Share Posted February 14, 2006 Far and away the most common reason a band loses work to a DJ is because they'll work cheaper. That's also the reason a lot of Top 40/Dance Clubs have started using Karaoke Nights-it's a whole lot cheaper to bring in a Karaoke Hostess/Host with a system and pay em a bill than it is to find a 4/5 piece band that will work for what amounts to $15 a man to do covers. A good wedding band in the circuit I work costs upwards of $10K-including airfare/tour bus and hotels. We're probably the cheapest component of some of these weddings-which can be in places like Mar Y Largo (The Donald's place in West Palm).A DJ would probably do the gig for $1000 and that would be a phat gig for someone like that-lots of DJs in my area work for under $200 a night....A good band can work the crowd well-we just did a major Charity Event here in the Large City I live in and played everything from "In the Mood" to "Let's Get it Started" by the Black Eyed Peas. The crowd had a great time and that's the 18th year that band has worked that event-must be for that reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BandProfit Posted February 18, 2006 Members Share Posted February 18, 2006 Phaeton, It sounds like the disciplined nature of what this guy is offering sounds intriguing to you at some level, so I would have to ask WHY? This is not a cut on you or the band, it is only a guiding question. Are you looking to become more disciplined, consistent, and make money while doing it? Then if this guy is legit, you could consider it tuition in a good school run by a person fairly well versed in business as well as music. In fact this would actually be considered reverse-tuition, because no school I know of pays you to learn from them. The thing that often amazes me (I know I am going to draw fire for this) is why musicians would rather work in fast food, at wal-mart, or as mechanics to keep their artistic integrity, instead of doggedly building their own dream. Discipline is not a curse word, and it does not militate against creativity any more than writing in sentances and paragraphs stifles my ability to communicate my thoughts effectively. Here's the bottom line - every career has elements of "work" that are not fun. That is why it is called work. Moreover, none of the people that I know who have ever realized any amount of success, or financial reward from their passion for music, have done so without pain, or displeasure. That is the stuff that builds the character and experience necissary to succeed. Do your thing - Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jpb1977 Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 I happen to lead one of these 'business bands', however I'd like to think that we've successfully merged the worlds of fun and professionalism. It's all about discipline, not from the top down, but personal discipline, and a respect for your clients (bar owners and patrons). If you want to be an upper-echelon type band, you need to portray that both musically and whether some of you want to hear it or not, visually. For example, we dress well. The guys know what is acceptable or not, so it isn't even a conversation. If you play a corporate style gig or a wedding, jackets are in order. If we play at a bar, we can tone it down. But I trust my guys, I don't sit there with a clipboard saying what is in or out. When it comes to music, I personally believe that while you must cater to what gets crowds invovled (instantly recognizable hits that make people want to dance) that doesn't mean you can't have some fun with them. 'Play That Funky Music' segues into a bass solo and 'Superstition', an '80's Medley' merges 10 classics together. Songs like 'Smooth' visit Santana's main riff, but then the guitar player takes it to another level. Shutting this sort of LIFE off would be robbing myself of all my enjoyment while playing, let alone the crowd who watches to see where each night lands. We have the added element of being great friends, but that is something that a) can't be forced and b) isn't crucial to delivering a great product, but it sure makes it a whole lot more fun while doing it. We are all fans of each other's ability - from watching our lead vocalist develop, to the treat of hearing our drummer sing after years of silence, to our new bass player and his incredible lines, and of course, to how our guitar player proves night after night that he runs the entire city! At practice, we are serious, but we also laugh at each other, have a drink when it's over and listen to everyone's input. To conclude - have fun, but frame it within a business/professional environment and you can have the best of both worlds. jpb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BandProfit Posted February 21, 2006 Members Share Posted February 21, 2006 jpb1977, Nicely put - Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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