Members kmarsh Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 OK, so I'm still a noob... been playing around 7 months or so. I have a Vox DA5 that is great for family room hacking. I just met a guy in the neighborhood who also plays (much better) and he has asked me to stop over some time to jam with him and another guy who plays drums. I really don't think I'm up to the point of taking him up on his offer (I suck and am a bit of a "slow learner" ) but, maybe soon... when I get better... when I get up a bit more courage... heck, when I can play a song or two through the whole way without stopping 3 times. Anyway, I think I want/need a bigger amp. I have an electronics background and am really intrigued with the Fender tweed clone amp kits. Mission Amps has a highly regarded "5E3" kit for $650 and I REALLY like the looks of the old, tweed amps. I think it'd be a pretty easy build. Problem is, it's "only" 15 watts, which I've been told is not big enough to stand up to a drummer. On the other hand, I can get a new Peavey Classic 30 for $600 (30 watts), and it has reverb, "effects loop" (not that I need that now anyway... and, when DO you need it? can't most pedals go between the guitar and amp input???). I can probably get a used one for $400 or so. So... I'm torn. Aside from "get what you like", any sage advice? I've been focusing on blues/blues rock and have a Fender Strat and an Ibanez AS73 (335 clone). The "real" Fender '57 Deluxe tweed reissue is like $1,700, so I'm thinking a good, point-to-point wired clone of it for $650 is a steal... but, the Peavey sounds nice, too... and maybe more practical(?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 If you can build an amp .... go buy an old real fender that needs work, Or just buy an amp. the only thing to gain from building an amp is the personal satisfacton of building one. You would be better served taking your talent and reviving vintage tube amps. rat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roygbiv Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 well, you've got pretty decent tastes for a noob--not many noobs are looking for a 5E3 tweed. that said, you're kind of all over the map with your decision-making process. You mentioned the Peavey Classic 30, the Mission kit, and the 57 DRRI. There are lots of other choices in that range that may get you really close to the sound you think you want (have you been to the Frenzel site yet? have you played the 65 DRRI?). My suggestion is to find a guitar store and spend some time with a bunch of amps and find something that sounds right to you. The amps you've mentioned are actually quite different, so make sure you know what you're looking for. Good luck. And for god's sake, please have fun playing and searching for your new gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lowbrow Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 I dunno...unless he's a one volume drummer, I'd think 15 watts of tube power would be fine if it's an efficient speaker... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmarsh Posted August 10, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 Well, my taste is certainly not in line with my talent. ;-) I thought the Fender '57 Deluxe tweed (not a DRRI) IS a 5E3 (which is why I though the clone kit seems to be a good bargain at 1/3rd the price) ... but yeh, I guess the Peavey is certainly a different animal. I know they'll sound different and, as I said, I know the best answer is always "try 'em out". I guess I'm sort of hoping for some help in breaking down the trade offs. Or maybe a sanity check on why one is clearer a better idea... something like, "Duh, if you can build a tweed clone, it's certainly a better sounding amp than the Peavey and would be a better investment" ... or "Jeez, why in the world build a 5E3 when [amp xxx] would have a much better [insert something invaluable here] and better use of your money. " So, maybe there isn't a clear winner, but I'd appreciate any opinions/feedback. I DO intend to go try some out, though. If most folks think like Lowbrow, that 15W is plenty loud enough for my modest "gigging" plans, and and "effects loop" isn't very necessary for most pedals/effects (is it?), then maybe I'll just just go ahead and build the tweed. I just don't want to be saying, "boy, that was a dumb move". Rhat... Yes, I could probably fix up an old amp but my partially lingering electronics skills make me more comfortable soldering together parts than actually debuging audio equipment. well, you've got pretty decent tastes for a noob--not many noobs are looking for a 5E3 tweed. that said, you're kind of all over the map with your decision-making process. You mentioned the Peavey Classic 30, the Mission kit, and the 57 DRRI. There are lots of other choices in that range that may get you really close to the sound you think you want (have you been to the Frenzel site yet? have you played the 65 DRRI?). My suggestion is to find a guitar store and spend some time with a bunch of amps and find something that sounds right to you. The amps you've mentioned are actually quite different, so make sure you know what you're looking for.Good luck. And for god's sake, please have fun playing and searching for your new gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted August 10, 2007 Members Share Posted August 10, 2007 If it were me I'd get the tweed clone and mike it to the PA if it wasn't loud enough for your drummer. I'd probably also get the Mission amps volume and tone mod to make the amp a killer tone machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmarsh Posted August 11, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 11, 2007 Good point. I think I'm leaning toward building the tweed clone, as well. I wonder if it'd also be possible to get a bit more out of it with a tube swap of some sort... or maybe feed it to a cabinet. (?) The volume/tone mod is only a few bucks more so, yeh, I'd definitely add that. Thanks for your thoughts. If it were me I'd get the tweed clone and mike it to the PA if it wasn't loud enough for your drummer. I'd probably also get the Mission amps volume and tone mod to make the amp a killer tone machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dcindc Posted August 11, 2007 Members Share Posted August 11, 2007 Find and fix a broken amp. If it isn't the love of your life, sell it. Repeat. Maximize and capitalise on your repair skills. I have lots of nice stuff, that I didn't pay alot for. And when I need money I sell something and make a nice profit. An Epi valve jr combo is an unbeatable value if you can mod it yourself. Spend some time on ebay. I could easily afford the most expensive kits yet I would never buy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walfordr Posted August 11, 2007 Members Share Posted August 11, 2007 Build something because you want to go through the process of learning and constructing. Not because you get a better result for less. Remember that a homemade amp has no resale value at all. Would you buy electrical equipment with lethal voltages from an unlicensed, uninsured, unknown manufacturer with zero previous experience? For me the fun of building an amp is that you then have a platform to fiddle - you can start tweaking it to see how you can influence the tone. If you just want to play then buy an amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dsquared Posted August 11, 2007 Members Share Posted August 11, 2007 If he's asked you over to jam, take him up on it. The sooner the better. Play, have fun, learn. If he's anything like the average HC poster, he probably already owns a second amp you can borrow when you're there anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wyatt Posted August 11, 2007 Members Share Posted August 11, 2007 The Peavey. The 30 watts of the Peavey will let you keep up with the drummer, even if you stay clean and the master volume on the lead channel gives you a lot of variables for how much drive to dial in. Varsetality is super handy when you are starting out and still exploring different tones. Used they are great bargains, and you can even get the used ones in Tweed-pattern tolex. I own a real 5E3. Mine is a '60. So, why steer you away? First a little Tweed education. There are lots of used Tweed Clones on the market. Why? Because people think they look cool and assume they sound like all the other Fenders. This couldn't be further from the truth. "Tweed Tone" is more Marshall-esque, there is a loose bottom end, a big midrange, and the highs roll off real early; they are very warm sounding amps. This is very different than the signature "Fender Tone" we all know from the BF/SF amps. "Fender Tone" has tight bass, a scooped midrange and clean, bright highs; it's the twang, sparkle and shimmer most of us conjure as soon as we think Fender. So, lots of people buy Tweeds assuming they are getting 'Fender Tone" in cooler duds, and then sell because they are disappointed when they get mini-Marshall tone. Now, with that in mind, you may still want to pursue the Tweed Tone, it's fat and lo-fi, primitive and alluring, I know. In truth, the 12 watts RMS of the 5E3 is sufficient for competing against all but the most aggressive drummer. You just have to get the amp off the floor (chair, stand) to help it project. But, at 12 watts, you'll only be able to compete with a drummer when the amp is cranked, that means dirty, no cleans. Clean tones are hard to get on a 5E3 anyway because on an amp that goes to 12, you run out of clean headroom at 3. And, with the 335 clone, cleans will be almost impossible and the bottom-end is going to get all flubby. So, at this point, the 5E3 is a one-trick pony. It's a great trick, it's my trick. But, I would recommend using something more versatile until you really figure out exactly what your trick is. Effects loops come in real handy for putting modulation and time-based effects after the preamp, so they don't get muddy. It isn't needed and I don't shop based on whether an amp has one or not (none of my amps have one), but it can be helpful if there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SlickCat Posted August 11, 2007 Members Share Posted August 11, 2007 Get a Vox modelling amp....then when you find out which classic tones you spend the most time playing on, go for the real thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roygbiv Posted August 11, 2007 Members Share Posted August 11, 2007 Get a Vox modelling amp....then when you find out which classic tones you spend the most time playing on, go for the real thing This is really not a bad idea at all. Those Vox modeling amps have lots of useable tones and they are FUN to mess around with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted August 11, 2007 Members Share Posted August 11, 2007 If you can build an amp .... go buy an old real fender that needs work, Or just buy an amp. the only thing to gain from building an amp is the personal satisfacton of building one. You would be better served taking your talent and reviving vintage tube amps. rat I think there's way more to gain than that. When you are finished with your home-built amp you'll have way more amp for the money. Features like PTP wiring and better components. You also can customize things to your own personal tastes. On top of that, the filter caps would be brand new with 20 years of life in them. Vintage amps usually need those caps replaced immediately at the time of purchase. Have you checked the price of a vintage tweed Deluxe these days comparedto building one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmarsh Posted August 12, 2007 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2007 Well thanks, guys, for the input. I'm still undecided but at least you've all given me some more concrete/tangible things to consider. Tomorrow I leave for a two week family vacation in Lake George (yea!) , so I'll have time to mull it over some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GreatDane Posted August 12, 2007 Members Share Posted August 12, 2007 If he's asked you over to jam, take him up on it. The sooner the better. Play, have fun, learn. If he's anything like the average HC poster, he probably already owns a second amp you can borrow when you're there anyways. +1 on getting together with people to jam sooner rather than later. you'll always improve by playing with people who are better/different than you guitar-wise, if you enter every situation with an open mind and with the ability to swallow your pride a bit (or a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted August 12, 2007 Members Share Posted August 12, 2007 This Corvette guitar demo features a head that was built based on a tweed 5E3 circuit...so you can kind of hear a tweed deluxe this way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Majai Posted August 12, 2007 Members Share Posted August 12, 2007 I'm guessing you know all about the 59 Bassman reissue. Thought I would throw that out there as it's one of my favorite Fender amps. Also, a Vox AC30 would probably be to your liking. Both can keep up with a drummer. While an effects loop is never a necessity, some pedals sound substantially better through a effects loop. I personally would have trouble spending big bucks on an amp that doesn't have a quality effects loop because some of my pedals have sounded so much better through a loop. The Bassman reissue doesn't have an effects loop. Getting a good tube amp will help your playing improve. They are much more dynamic than a solid state, and will help develop your touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members walfordr Posted August 12, 2007 Members Share Posted August 12, 2007 This is really not a bad idea at all. Those Vox modeling amps have lots of useable tones and they are FUN to mess around with. It would be a very good idea if he didn't already have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SlickCat Posted August 12, 2007 Members Share Posted August 12, 2007 It would be a very good idea if he didn't already have one. Then he should know what kind of amp he likes...... I spend most of my time on Soldano and Plexi w/greenbacks settings. Followed close by the Deluxe reverb tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cogdog Posted August 12, 2007 Members Share Posted August 12, 2007 Dude, if you have a electronics back ground I think you should build an amp, in fact I think you owe it to yourself. I've given it some thought as well, point to point for $650? No brainer man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members revans513 Posted August 12, 2007 Members Share Posted August 12, 2007 OK, so I'm still a noob... been playing around 7 months or so. I have a Vox DA5 that is great for family room hacking. I just met a guy in the neighborhood who also plays (much better) and he has asked me to stop over some time to jam with him and another guy who plays drums. I really don't think I'm up to the point of taking him up on his offer (I suck and am a bit of a "slow learner" ) but, maybe soon... when I get better... when I get up a bit more courage... heck, when I can play a song or two through the whole way without stopping 3 times. Anyway, I think I want/need a bigger amp. I think it is more important for you to play with these guys than consider what amp you need. It is very hard to find people to play with and you will improve at light speed compared to noodling in your bedroom. Get some experience, then worry about equipment. You might find that the tone you think you want now will change. I don't think anything will improve your playing more than playing, especially with other people. Besides, it's way more fun. I would tell the guy that you are a beginner and see if he will still want to play. My guess is he will. He might have a 2 channel amp you could plug into, or just use your DA5 and put it so you can hear it. Your timing will improve as will your mechanics. Good luck, I hope it works out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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