Is your guitar playing on a subconscious level?

[Jeff Leites]

Are you consciously aware of what notes you have to play, or where your fingers have to go when you are playing, or is it a subconscious process that guides your fingers? Today I was playing some tunes I

[Lee Flier]

Well I would hope that's what happens, I thought the whole point of practicing was so you could play without thinking about it. If you don't have to use the "thinking" part of your brain so much then your emotions and other altered states of consciousness start to come through in the music and that, IMO, is the point! So long as I'm merely thinking and not totally feeling and instinctual, I consider that I'm not really playing.

 

It's kind of like a favorite quote of mine from the avant garde dancer Twyla Tharp. Somebody said to her backstage after one of her performances, "Well, your dance was most interesting, but what does it MEAN?" And she replied, "Well if I knew THAT, I wouldn't have to do the dance at all, would I?"

[D Charles]

On gigs, the only thing I left brained, or conciously thought about before a solo was the starting note or position. I think I honestly remembered solos more like pictures or right brained.

 

I always sang lead and harmony so I always got the guitar parts on auto pilot way before I worked on the singing and never had a problem on those parts of songs unless I got off on the wrong foot; note; position which was rare.

 

I know what you're talking about because sometimes I've become accutely aware of 'what next???!!!" when playing and if you don't go back on auto pilot then you can think yourself into a corner.

 

I know it's weird but I've had the exact same thoughts concerning breathing; "My God, if I don't concentrate I'll stop!!!!

 

And also eye blinking.

 

Eh, don't go there, it's spooky.. :eek:

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by D Charles I know what you're talking about because sometimes I've become accutely aware of 'what next???!!!" when playing and if you don't go back on auto pilot then you can think yourself into a corner.

 

Yeah, I've done that and it's scary, that's what you wanna avoid. It's kinda like in cartoons where somebody runs over a cliff but they don't actually fall till they look down.

[D Charles]

Originally posted by Lee Flier Yeah, I've done that and it's scary, that's what you wanna avoid. It's kinda like in cartoons where somebody runs over a cliff but they don't actually fall till they look down.

 

Crikey Lee, we're posting at exactly the same time, but your analogy is exactly what I was talking about. Especially the bit about running in place in mid air until you get back over land!

 

[Jeff Leites]

 

Originally posted by Lee Flier If you don't have to use the "thinking" part of your brain so much then your emotions and other altered states of consciousness start to come through in the music and that, IMO, is the point!

 

 

Lee, I'm playing lead in a surf band. I'm not playing Mozart, so while there is some room to vary the melody a bit, I have to keep it recognizable. If my fingers "forget" where to go when playing, Pipeline, I'm screwed, and would really look bad for forgetting such an easy tune. What worries me, is even with Pipeline burned into my brain, I cannot tell you what the notes or finger postions are, unless I have a guitar in hand, and I'm playing it. I don't have a score in my conscious mind to refer to.

[patshep]

sounds like you're dealing with mindfulness issues... it's not easy to live in the present moment.. i sound like a huge hippie now

[alfonso]

I would say that I go completely authomatic, but it's not exact, there is a control by the brain, but it depends on what is moving it if the music comes out well or not.

If I'm relaxed and concentrated, "inspired", my mind sings and fingers just help it, it's a condition where all the world disappears, or maybe takes new shapes and it's one thing with the music, but if I'm bothered by external influences, problems or ego issues, I have to fish in the pool of licks, and music suffers. it's like being a bit absent, or doing two things at the same time, can't be good.

[Billster]

Try to practice consciously, and perform subconsciously.

 

Try to avoid being unconscious

[offramp]

 

Is your guitar playing on a subconscious level?

 

 

I don't know. I suppose I should ask it, next time I pick it up.

[MitchG]

 

Originally posted by Jeff Leites I cannot tell you what the notes or finger postions are, unless I have a guitar in hand, and I'm playing it. I don't have a score in my conscious mind to refer to.

 

 

When I first started studying classical guitar, and was preparing for my first recital, my teacher had me sit down, put away my guitar, and write out the score for each piece from memory, with all the articulations and markings. Wow...it made me realize how poorly I had the piece learned, even though I could play it from memory.

 

Now I practice a lot away from my guitar - whether classical, rock, country, or whatever style I'm playing in. I sit and play through the entire song in my mind, trying to visualize as exactly as possible every aspect of my part.

 

Not easy, but very effective for memorization, and for improving your performance! You'll be surprised, when you pick up your instrument, how much better you know the music.

[Kendrix]

I see two aspects to this.

 

When I sit down and play a familiar song "my fingers do the walking" to a great extent.

 

When I am composing a new song and have a solo to come up with i sometimes dotn give it a signle thought.

I just pick up the ole geetar and adopt a "let whatever flows flow" attitude. Since I often work alone and have unlimited /virtual tracks to play with this is easy to do in an uninhibited way.

 

Sometimes its fun to try it with an unfamilar tuning.

 

Some of my best, and least predictable, solo's come out of thin air in this way.

When it "happens" it's almost as good as sex.

 

BTW I find its the same for songwriting in general- better to just let it flow.

[Will Chen]

 

Originally posted by Jeff Leites What worries me, is even with Pipeline burned into my brain, I cannot tell you what the notes or finger postions are, unless I have a guitar in hand, and I'm playing it. I don't have a score in my conscious mind to refer to.

 

 

Weird, this is opposite for me. When the guitar is in hand things just happen. I'd have to think about it after the fact to tell you exactly what I'm playing. When away from the guitar it's all visualization.

 

Being able to "talk" musical concepts only when your instrument is in hand can be extremely limiting.

 

When the guitar is in hand, do you have to look down to see what notes and positions you're playing? If so, just give yourself some time and you'll get there eventually.

 

I would also suggest trying to concentrate on the band's performance as a whole rather than your specific performance. This will help a ton regarding psyching yourself into a mistake.

[RockViolin]

 

Originally posted by Jeff Leites Are you consciously aware of what notes you have to play, or where your fingers have to go when you are playing, or is it a subconscious process that guides your fingers? Today I was playing some tunes I

[chipmcdonald]

I play subconsciously.

 

Everything I practice is to make it work better - which is a trick, and hard to explain to someone who doesn't do it.

 

 

One downside is that I'm at the mercy of my mood. If I'm not feeling it, I have to revert back to conscious playing; which is fine, people say what I do is great and all in that situation - but it's not as satisfying.

 

Another downside is that you've got to turn the "editor" off. Which means something embarassing can occur: maybe something gets quoted that shouldn't be, or you lean towards a path that perhaps isn't optimal.

 

The upside is that it's the purest way of making music IMO, and it allows for Great Things To Be Heard That Have Never Been Heard in the History of Humans. Which is the big goal, to me.

 

The curious thing for me, is that if it's working right I don't remember anything about what I've been playing after I've done it. So maybe I'm actually temporarily invoking a type of controlled seizure when I solo.

 

Success=neuronal paroxysm....

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Jeff Leites Lee, I'm playing lead in a surf band. I'm not playing Mozart, so while there is some room to vary the melody a bit, I have to keep it recognizable. If my fingers "forget" where to go when playing, Pipeline, I'm screwed, and would really look bad for forgetting such an easy tune.

 

Well sure. I don't mean you should play unconsciously as in "not knowing what the part will be until it comes out." Some people are great at that and some musical styles lend themselves to that, but that's not my thing either - I like stuff with recognizable melodies. The point is to know them well enough that those recognizable parts just come out without your having to consciously think about it - that's what I meant.

 

What worries me, is even with Pipeline burned into my brain, I cannot tell you what the notes or finger postions are, unless I have a guitar in hand, and I'm playing it. I don't have a score in my conscious mind to refer to.

 

I don't think that's very worrisome. I probably couldn't do that either but I don't see that as being the point really. The point is to know the SONG in your head, and to be able to make that come out when you have a guitar in your hands. I think we can get too wrapped up in the mechanics of what we're doing... I mean I couldn't tell you how many BPM my heart has to be going when I'm running vs. walking, or which muscles I'm using or how many, but that doesn't interfere with my ability to walk or run, and it'd be a real pain if it did.

[Jeff Leites]

Originally posted by wbcsound When the guitar is in hand, do you have to look down to see what notes and positions you're playing? If so, just give yourself some time and you'll get there eventually.

 

When I'm playing by myself, I only look occasionally. When I'm playing with the band, I'm afraid to take my eyes off the fingerboard, which is kind of ironic now that I think about it, since I'm bassically just watching where my fingers are automatically going

 

I guess, that I should mention that until a couple of months ago, I hadn't played in a band since 1968, so this is kind of new to me again.

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Jeff Leites I guess, that I should mention that until a couple of months ago, I hadn't played in a band since 1968, so this is kind of new to me again.

 

Ahhh yeah, that'll do it! I went through several months getting the jitters like that onstage when I first got into a band again after not having had one for several years. I was constantly afraid I'd forget the changes to a song or just mess something up. It'll pass after you've been doing it again for a little while.

 

Your band sounds great though! I love surf stuff!

[RockViolin]

Originally posted by Jeff Leites When I'm playing by myself, I only look occasionally. When I'm playing with the band, I'm afraid to take my eyes off the fingerboard, which is kind of ironic now that I think about it, since I'm bassically just watching where my fingers are automatically going I guess, that I should mention that until a couple of months ago, I hadn't played in a band since 1968, so this is kind of new to me again.

 

Practice doing it the way you'll be doing it on stage. Its not so much at this point for you a matter of concious or unconcious or subconcious as it is a matter of finger memory, as you allude to. Yes, your little fingers have little finger memories! And if you practice enough, you'll be able to play thru while you're wondering why she smiled at you, why that guy just gave you the bird, which door to leave from, or if you go all subconcious on us. The better you know it as it goes, the more you'll be able to break away and do your own twist here and there also.

Perceiving your perceptions can get a bit like a dog chasing its tail. A feedback loop. You might have an out of body experience on stage! Which could be fun. Stay with the song. Be singing it inside as you play and trust your fingers. Maybe try and get away from looking at your fingers, so you can be engaged with the audience and entertain a bit as well.

[Kiwiburger]

I recommend practicing the George Benson trick of singing (or "doo-dooing") the notes as you play them. If you can think of a musical phrase, and then sing and play them simultaneoulsy, that means you are playing from a musical place, and not just finger-memory wankery.

[chipmcdonald]

 

Originally posted by Kiwiburger I recommend "doo-dooing" the notes as you play them.

 

 

 

IMO the problem is that subconsciously there's too many people doing that already.....

 

/ here all week

[Raymar]

How consciously I'm aware of playing depends on the

difficulty of the piece or how well I know the tune. I tend

to learn music in segments so if I'm playing something

for somebody and they decide to interupt me(why do

people feel the need to ask you questions durring a

performance? I've seen people raise their voice and

even grab the neck just to ask a question then let me

go on!) I can restart the segment I was interrupted in.

 

As for improvising it depends on how well the improv

is comming along, sometimes I can just let it fly and

a zen-like improv surfaces. I've created alot of tunes

subconsciously, sometimes in one fell swoop, others

have to be pieced together, or replayed until I get it

just right.

 

Steve

[Kiwiburger]

 

Originally posted by chipmcdonald IMO the problem is that subconsciously there's too many people doing that already..... / here all week

 

 

I suppose it depends on where you are coming from. If you are the sort of player who tends to play 64th note triplets up and down the pentatonic scales, with long bursts of incessantly hammered on thirds - then probably you can benefit from trying to play in singable phrases.

 

Maybe if you are still playing the melody you need to learn how to let your fingers do the talking.

 

The players I admire the most have a vocal, lyric quality to their phrases. I don't actually like George Benson - I just find it a great learning tool to force yourself to sing and play. It improves your vocal tuning, and your guitar chops. Just don't do it in public.

[philbo]

I've run into this phenomenon many times - - sometimes, things will be in a groove so tight it seems as if I'm listening to a band instead of playing in it. It's almost like a sort of auto-hypnosis!

 

The real trick is to not let that feeling screw it up - - it seems like I'm subconciously tempted to push the beat a little to see if the music actually changes, which invariably makes me hit a clam note Resisting that temptation, letting the zen of the moment rule, without slipping out of the beat, is what I strive for....

 

Being able to play without thinking stuff like

 

"I'm in a Dorian mode and we're gonna go to the 5th chord next, so I need to find the way to wrap the melody so it can start gracefully on the next repetition"

 

- - being able to simply channel what I'm feeling, and (at some level) paying close attention to what the other players are doing, without any sort of analysis of the music - - that's what I keep striving for. And it happens often enough that I feel it could be there all the time. Except going too far with it ends up leading me too far into 'random jazz' mode, where what I'm doing ends up confusing the other people.

 

I guess some sort of balance the two extemes must be struck, no? What do you all think?

[Jeff Leites]

Originally posted by philbo - - sometimes, things will be in a groove so tight it seems as if I'm listening to a band instead of playing in it. It's almost like a sort of auto-hypnosis!

 

When it's going right, I get that same feeling. I can't believe that it's me making the music.