Hendrix and Terry Kath

[nat whilk II]

I'm slowwwly working through putting my old vinyl onto CDs, and currently on the turntable is Chicago's first album, the "CTA" one.

 

Amazing, really. It's a 1969 album, and aside from how tight the band is, how great the horn arrangements fit the pop/rock material, how much variety there is, and the fact that a new band puts out a double album for their first release....Kath's guitar is astounding.

 

He's doing things on the "Free Form Guitar" track that, well, there's a big percentage of what Hendrix did that's right there on Kath's track. There's a quote I've seen somewhere from Hendrix to the effect that Kath was a better guitar player than him. I don't think so myself, and it could have been an attack of temporary humility on Jimi's part to say it, anyway. But still....

 

Bio info on Hendrix is easy to find, there's not much out there on Kath that I've been able to find.. I'd love to know if the two guys influenced each other, and who came up with which new tones and techniques.

 

Any experts out there that can shed some light on Kath and his contributions?

 

nat whilk ii

[D Charles]

I've heard that Hendrix quote before and after seeing Kath at least four times with Chicago in the 70's I can see why he said it. This is not a dig at Jemi as he's one of my all time favs, but man, Terry was a badass in his own way.

 

I recently saw where they toured together; Chicago as a warm up I would reckon. That would be kinda weird taking your power trio out after a 7 piece band with brass.

 

Thing is, Hendrix was an icon, where Kath was a member of a band. Terry always used that Tele with humbucks and that Fender amp with the six 12"s every time I saw him.

 

Man, I wish I still had all my Chicago albums. I lost most of em in a horrible 'act of God' kinda deal.

[steadyb]

The dad of a very close friend of mine has managed Chicago since the beginning, and told me that yes, Jimi Hendrix was definitely a big Terry Kath admirer.

[UstadKhanAli]

I didn't know any of this Hendrix/Kath thing before - interesting! Thanks!

[Lucky #9]

Kath was a way underrated guitarist.

Lots of people will say "Who?" when you mention his name.

Early CTA smoked.

[Tedster]

I've heard the Hendrix quote. Each had their own thing, and it's a matter of taste. I dig Hendrix, but, if I had a choice, the solo in "25 or 6 to 4" lays just about anyone else (rock-wise) of that era to waste. And that's not even counting Kath's killer vocals.

[Lee Knight]

Kath is mentioned in the "101 Forgotten Greats" Guitar Player magizine article this month. It is a shame that he is forgotten. Truly a great player with a amped up kind of energy playing on the edge. Almost nervous. I loved his playing...

[Kendrix]

I still adore that CTA album ( showing my age).

The arrangements are timeless.

I just wish the drums were a bit livelier (more room).

 

Ive read of that Hendrix comment in several places.

 

Terry had a much clearner technique than Jimi.

You hear every single note articulated.

Terry had Gibson tone, Jimi had the sigle coil fender/marshall tone.

In the context of the Chicago sound it was maavelous stuff.

[unichord]

Terry Kath was one of the best guitarists I've ever heard. The first 3 Chicago albums are stunning - after that, Chicago kinda went commercial (ballads and formula compositions)

 

Kath could improvise for days - he could easily hang in with Hendrix - I don't think Hendrix could pull off the jazz side of Kath. Its a question for the ages - they both died way too young.

[blue2blue]

I saw Chicago Transit Authority, as they were known then, a few times around '68-'69 in Orange County (I saw them a couple times at the old fairgrounds in a warehousey kind of venue they had cheap, 'festival style' concerts in.)

 

As I recall, they were really good and I was a big fan of Kath... I was pretty disappointed by their mainstream direction after the first couple albums but big bands are expensive to keep up and everyone's gotta live.

 

 

I remember driving up the old "Newport Freeway" (55) about 2:20 am one Saturday or Sunday morning with 25 or 6 to 4 running through my head... (Great title, I always thought, once I realized the song was about the early morning hours.) IIRC, that was one of Kath's big workouts and I remember really being impressed back then. Think I might just have to hear that track again. It's probably been 30 years or more since I've heard it all the way through.

 

Coming from listening to more jazz than rock in those days, I was really interested in rock bands that incorporated "non-rock" elements like jazzy horn lines, electric keyboard explorations, and so on. I'd bought the [second] BS&T album when it came out [the one with "Spinning Wheel," etc], played it twice the first day, once the second day and then barely ever played it again, except for my folks, who like it. (Although my dad had some uncharitable comments about their version of God Bless the Child, IIRC. As, probably, he should have. )

 

But CTA had Kath's guitar in the beginning and, for me, it was the magic touch... also, their songs, at first, were definitely rock songs in structure and style, jazzy horn work notwithstanding.

 

As I listen to 25 or 6 to 4 again (a remastered ver was the only thing I found on my subscription service but it's moderately respectful as these things go) I realize that whoever engineered it put all his effort into the horns, which sound great and detailed, but not quite enough in the rhythm section, which is rocking its heart out, to be sure, but which sounds pretty muffled. OTOH, that's probably due to a lot of bouncing... Anyhow, thanks for the memories!

 

 

PS... One thing... the "Related Artists" for Chicago (in my MusicMatch subscription thingie) reads like a horrorshow made out of some of my least favorite bands of all time: Air Supply, Boston, Christopher Cross, REO, Foreigner, America, Journey, Billy Joel, BS&T. It sends shivers up my spine.

[pbognar]

I've been a long time fan of Kath - he had so much soul in both is playing AND singing. But as mentioned - he could infuse a lot of complex jazz lines into his soloing.

 

I remember searching for any equipment articles I could find, and I seem to remember that he was a custom Tele and Strat guy going into some cheap ass Bogen PA head for his amp. And he could strangle his equipment into submission and get so much out of it.

 

I also remember reading something funny about when Chicago "jumped the shark" and a reply was that it coincided with two departures from the band - "Terry Kaths' balls"

[blue2blue]

I've been a long time fan of Kath - he had so much soul in both is playing AND singing. But as mentioned - he could infuse a lot of complex jazz lines into his soloing. I remember searching for any equipment articles I could find, and I seem to remember that he was a custom Tele and Strat guy going into some cheap ass Bogen PA head for his amp. And he could strangle his equipment into submission and get so much out of it. I also remember reading something funny about when Chicago "jumped the shark" and a reply was that it coincided with two departures from the band - "Terry Kaths' balls"

 

:D

 

That IS about the time they faded from my attention.

 

Listening to 25 or 6 again, I found myself thinking a little of jazz iconoclast Sonny Sharock, though Kath, like Hendrix used a LOT of chord voicings in his guitar work, not just solo lines. But there's that balls out (you should pardon the expression -- but we are talking about the 70s here ) up against the wall of sound guitar tone, dark, distorted, but controlled and purposeful, too.

 

A really interesting player.

 

____________

 

I popped on a few other tracks from the first album... there's a real rock defiance going on there that is so much at odds with what would come later. The feedback pedal note at the beginning of Listen... the grungey solo later. It kind of makes me think of what would have happened if you'd made a whole album from Buffalo Springfield's Good Time Boy.

 

(And, yeah, I'm thinking the relative lack of sparkle on the rhythm section, particularly drums is simply the result of a lot of bouncing. They seem to all be there, ie, they're well recorded.)

 

Ah... Free Form Guitar is on... I'd TOTALLY forgotten this one... They should start of EVERY Chicago Greatest Hits collection with this one!

 

Amazing he did that all without a trem bar!

 

 

[Just kidding. ]

[blue2blue]

Southern California Purples!

 

Another one I'd completely forgotten. What a trip! It reminds me of Al Kooper,* too, of course... the funkiness, the horn riffing -- though I think Kooper's best work is a lot funkier, tighter, but I'm digging this. Kath's solo just before the Come Together quote is pretty cool, too.

 

The singer sounds, especially at the intro, like Ozzie Ozborne singing the blues. It's pretty fun stuff.

 

 

*And, of course, Kooper was involved with the first BS&T album (the one with the hits was the SECOND one, though I misremembered it above as the first). Actually, I didn't check All Music or anything, it's just the memories resurfacing -- or being "recovered," perhaps.

 

 

OH! ... and I'd CLEARLY forgotten their rockin' but perhaps overly respectful (to the Spencer Davis arrangement) version of "I'm a Man." Soloing by Kath is really sharp and when he kicks in the wah wah the song REALLY comes alive. I wonder how much of this was live in the studio... the drums are definitely not down a few layers of tape, here. Cymbals are shiny and up front, kit-spread is a bit unnatural... as though they took three mics and put them hard L/R/C with the kick mic in the middle (that said, this is one of the most audible, prominent kicks in the late 60s... even when the band comes back in after the extended rhythm workout the kick is right there (although the cymbals do get sqeezed back).

 

I think I've heard this a couple times since then and thought it was a Spencer Davis lineup or something. I'm glad to finally give CTA the credit they deserved on this!

 

I'm really remembering the feel of hearing Kath play for an evening show... I remember coming out with that sound of his driven, fuzzed up guitar slicing through and bouncing across the jabs of horns.

 

I kind of feel like I've regained an old favorite, here, today.

 

PS... I also saw them a couple times at Long Beach State, once on an opening bill on a Saturday Afternoon (OK, I think it was a Sunday, in some ways) leading up to the Collectors (uh oh, gonna have to go find THOSE guys... lost life thread, there) and Jefferson Airplane, who were then more or less in their psychedelic prime (Fall '68). It was on a long sloping hill beneath a science building (most of which is now built on, of course) and it was one of the first all hippie crowds I was in... And I LIKED it. Acid, incense, and balloons, as the song said. (Not me, mind you. I was still in high school and kinda squeaky clean. But you didn't need drugs. The vibe was in the air and it was utterly tangible, real.)

 

Peace & Love, babies.

 

I swear it's not too late.

[pbognar]

 

 

 

Found a couple interesting links... varying degrees of knowledge:

 

http://philbrodieband.com/muso_terry_kath.htm

 

http://www.timmwood.com/kathgear.html

 

http://chicago.8m.com/cgi-bin/i/images/terry76_3.jpg (Tele)

 

http://chicago.8m.com/cgi-bin/i/images/terry71.jpg (SG)

 

Check out the first youtube video on this page - 3 pickup SG on "I'm a Man".

 

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=117777772

[VH5150]

 

lays just about anyone else (rock-wise) of that era

 

 

u crazy don't get me wrong he was badass and had a great voice

[aeon]

I'm slowwwly working through putting my old vinyl onto CDs, and currently on the turntable is Chicago's first album, the "CTA" one. Amazing, really. It's a 1969 album, and aside from how tight the band is, how great the horn arrangements fit the pop/rock material, how much variety there is, and the fact that a new band puts out a double album for their first release....Kath's guitar is astounding.

 

I just got this on CD in the last week. Absolutely smoking.

 

I was born the same year it was.

 

And yes, Terry Kath is so underrated, and it seems doubly wrong given the passion he expressed.

 

 

cheers,

Ian

[Tedster]

 

u crazy don't get me wrong he was badass and had a great voice

 

 

I'm guessing you're a Van Halen fan. I'm also guessing you're younger, and looking at "all guitarists who were famous before I was born", instead of looking at late sixties/early seventies guitarists in one set (Hendrix, Clapton, Page, Kath, Frampton, etc.) and late seventies/early eighties guitarists in another set (Van Halen falls into this category). Kath, if I recall correctly, was dead by the time Van Halen hit (as was Hendrix).