Buzz... Refret already???

[wickedmonkey]

Ok so here's the deal... My SG Standard is buzzing, G string at 5-9 (today more so than ever before) and the D string is buzzing at 7-9... NO idea what the deal is other than I see some pitting happening on those frets... it's driving me nuts! I've only had this guitar for a year... the neck is straight and if i raise the action anymore it will no longer be playable for leads... the action should actually be lower than where it is...

 

what do I do here guys? I shouldn't have to refret a guitar after a year of use!

 

if I do, do I get stainless steel???

 

talk to me!

 

(I've never had to refret any of my guitars)

[sleepeatplay]

I would take it in to a luthier, might just need a fret mill. With the weather changing, the neck might need a little love.

[dcindc]

Tighten the truss rod a 1/4 turn

[_pete_]

 

Tighten the truss rod a 1/4 turn

 

 

What he said.

[wickedmonkey]

Tighten the truss rod a 1/4 turn

 

I've adjusted the truss rod... thats not the problem here... I think it may be a combination of little things

 

the neck isn't bowing... i keep close tabs on that stuff... part of the issue i believe is the nut... looks like its sitting too low and I noticed this whe i bought the guitar but at that time there were no issues but over time i see it being one... (i just don't want to admit it HAHA)

 

I'm going to have to take it to a luthier... any other suggestions of what it is I'd appreciate it!

[mc5nrg]

The nut has no influence on the fret buzzing you are describing. Could be the truss rod needs slight tightening or you have uneven frets that need to be dressed.

[Pankot]

You say you can see slight pitting, so you have visible fret wear. It's not implausible for nickel alloy frets to need attention after a year's playing.

 

You don't need a refret, but a fret redress or possibly a fret level. This is something you can DIY with patience and care (search forums) but I wouldn't do your first DIY job on your main guitar!

 

If you do ever decide to refret your guitar, then SS frets will last much longer - so I would pay the extra. But personally I wouldn't bother ripping out nickel frets that weren't past saving.

[JimboJ]

The neck should not be straight. There should be a bit of a bow in it. You should try loosening the truss rod a quarter turn.

[oryan]

 

The neck should not be straight. There should be a bit of a bow in it. You should try loosening the truss rod a quarter turn.

 

 

+1

 

As weather changes, so does the neck. I find my geetars need at least one truss rod tweak a year. Your problem could be solved with a simple setup.

[flip333]

It wouldn't hurt to play with the truss rod. The sweet spot might be a 1/4 turn away.

[dcindc]

The neck should not be straight. There should be a bit of a bow in it. You should try loosening the truss rod a quarter turn.

 

^^^ failed geometry....

[mrbrown49]

Might just need a level and crown. If there are worn spots, flat spots on top of heavily used frets thats probably the case. If you play that guitar a lot and use a lot of pressure when fretting I wouldn't be all that surprised that it needs a level already. I don't know about gibson, but alot of manufacturers use a soft alloy for their fret wire that can wear pretty quick on an instrument played frequently by a heavy handed player.

[JimboJ]

^^^ failed geometry....

 

Care to elaborate genius??

[mrbrown49]

 

Care to elaborate genius??

 

 

Some guitars and guitarists can get away with a straight neck with little or no buzz depending on the guitar, setup, and player's style.

[stormin1155]

So when you fret the string at the first fret and the 22nd fret (at the same time) is there any space between the string frets at the middle of the neck? Most guitars are set up so there should be just a hair... no more than a guitar pick. If the string is touching you need to loosen the truss a little.

 

My guess is you need a fret level/crown. If you have a short straight edge (something that will cover 3-4 frets at a time) you can go along the length of the fretboard and see if it rocks on any fret or if you can see any space under any... that would indicate a high or low fret. A fret level/crown is really pretty quick and easy... I did one of my guitars in an hour last night. Let me know if you want to tackle it and I'll tell you what you need for tools and walk you through the process.

 

It's amazing how much better a guitar plays and sounds when the frets are well leveled and dressed.. It isn't only an action thing... it affects the tone big time.

[GilmourD]

 

Might just need a level and crown. If there are worn spots, flat spots on top of heavily used frets thats probably the case. If you play that guitar a lot and use a lot of pressure when fretting I wouldn't be all that surprised that it needs a level already. I don't know about gibson, but alot of manufacturers use a soft alloy for their fret wire that can wear pretty quick on an instrument played frequently by a heavy handed player.

 

 

If it's not a trussrod issue, it's probably a level issue. You probably just need the frets cleaned up, not completely replaced.

[mrbrown49]

It's amazing how much better a guitar plays and sounds when the frets are well leveled and dressed.. It isn't only an action thing... it affects the tone big time.

 

Yup. Poor crowns will give the guitar a dead sound, and reduce sustain.

[mrbrown49]

 

I agree with Jimbo. I personally need a tiny bit of relief so that I don't get buzzing all over the place. Also, if a neck is straight, it tends to feel too stiff for my preferences. If it's not a trussrod issue, it's probably a level issue. You probably just need the frets cleaned up, not completely replaced.

 

 

I agree. I like a bit of relief as well. It helps me "grab" the string and makes bending a bit easier. If I were the OP I would take off the strings, set the neck as straight as possible and look at the neck carefully with a good straight edge. I would look for both high and low spots, and places that need to be recrowned. If everything checks level (I have a hunch that it won't) i would have it recrowned and properly setup. If there are trouble spots I would have it leveled.

[dcindc]

Care to elaborate genius??

 

 

 

The thin lines are strings. The thick lines are the neck.

 

Top two are a straight neck.

Bottom two are a relieved neck.

 

Notice on the the bottom lines that the curve of the string is closer to the neck, and frets?

 

When the middle frets buzz there is too much neck relief.

 

Here's the situation:

It didn't use to buzz. Now it does.

 

Either he wore down the 1 thru 5 frets so much that it caused it to buzz above there,

OR

Seasonal weather changes made a very slight change in the neck relief, and a truss rod adjustment is called for.

 

And thanks for noticing!

[JimboJ]

The thin lines are strings. The thick lines are the neck. Top two are a straight neck. Bottom two are a relieved neck. Notice on the the bottom lines that the curve of the string is closer to the neck, and frets? When the middle frets buzz there is too much neck relief. Here's the situation: It didn't use to buzz. Now it does. Either he wore down the 1 thru 5 frets so much that it caused it to buzz above there, OR Seasonal weather changes made a very slight change in the neck relief, and a truss rod adjustment is called for. And thanks for noticing!

 

Those lines are very pretty...

 

But the fact remains that unless the action is extremely high, a neck needs some relief to allow room for the vibration of the strings since they vibrate in an arc. Seasonal changes can make it go either straight or bowed.

He is saying that the neck is straight, and I'm saying any guitar tech will tell you the neck should not be perfectly straight.

[dcindc]

 

He is saying that the neck is straight, and I'm saying any guitar tech will tell you the neck should not be perfectly straight.

 

 

Lots of people like straight.

Lots of people like some relief.

 

The fact remains, his problem is too much relief. His symptoms bear this out.

 

Do you really think he wore down his frets enough to cause this problem?

or is it just possible, that the change in weather is the cause?

 

I'm just trying to save the guy 50 bucks on a setup, when 3 seconds with a wrench will likely cure it.

 

What exactly are you trying to do?

 

Hell, he won't even try. I'm outta here.

[JimboJ]

 

Which is why strings aren't parallel to the neck. yup Lots of people like straight. Lots of people like some relief. The fact remains, his problem is too much relief. His symptoms bear this out. Do you really think he wore down his frets enough to cause this problem? or is it just possible, that the change in weather is the cause? I'm just trying to save the guy 50 bucks on a setup, when 3 seconds with a wrench will likely cure it. What exactly are you trying to do? Hell, he won't even try. I'm outta here.

 

 

I agree with you its probably not the frets, and i an also trying to help the guy save some money. The only place I disagree with you is the direction he should turn the truss rod.

 

How about trying a quarter turn in one direction, and if that doesn't help, turn it a half a turn in the opposite direction, and see which sounds better.

[leopardstar]

ahhhh excuse me for one minuite....but all my guitars have very str8 necks, and none of them buzz. so i'm with DC on this one

 

EDIT: i just now seen your last post, sounds reasonable

[Mind Riot]

The fact remains, his problem is too much relief. His symptoms bear this out. Do you really think he wore down his frets enough to cause this problem? or is it just possible, that the change in weather is the cause? I'm just trying to save the guy 50 bucks on a setup, when 3 seconds with a wrench will likely cure it. What exactly are you trying to do? Hell, he won't even try. I'm outta here.

 

No disrespect intended whatsoever here DC, but the symptoms don't conclusively bear that out, and I think you might be oversimplifying the issue.

 

The OP specifically listed buzzing in a couple spots only on specific strings. He also mentioned that the guitar is an SG Standard.

 

If all or even most of the strings were buzzing toward the middle of the neck then that could indicate that there was too much relief, but there's a lot more information that needs to be gleaned before we could make such a conclusive statement.

 

For instance, the fact that he only reports buzzing on two strings could either indicate pits only on those frets in those spots, or could indicate that the saddles under those strings had been cut too low or had worn themselves down too low, causing those strings to have lower action than the rest. SG's have tune-o-matics, so if the OP says the action looks fine by only looking at the low and high E strings he could be missing that the strings in question could be sitting a bit lower, leading to buzzing. We'd need to check the action of each string accurately.

 

It's also worth noting that even with a lot of relief not all necks will behave the same. On some necks when you give them a lot of relief they'll bow in the middle mostly, like if you were to bend a plastic ruler between your palms. This example fits the diagrams you posted.

 

But some necks, depending on the wood or thickness of the neck, will take on more of a ramp shape when given relief because the stiffness of the wood prevents the bowing in the middle being so pronounced. This would be more like if you held the plastic ruler in one hand and pushed up on the other end of it with your finger. They both have curve, but not in the same way relative to where they're mounted to the body.

 

So one may get the bow in the middle where the center of the neck is actually being pushed back away from the strings a bit, whereas another may only rise up the further you get from the body, creating a ramp shape.

 

Because of these factors, it's possible to have to neck with a lot of relief, even too much, that doesn't buzz in the middle. It just depends on the neck.

 

Like most guitar setup and repair situations, there can be a lot more subtle and complex stuff going on here than we might think at first.