The end of Paypal

[clay sails]

My problem with Paypal is that after a transaction has "cleared" they can take the money back.

 

In other words, when you're selling something after you have verified the funding in someone's account, gotten your money, and shipped the item they can say "sorry" and take back the cash, leaving you without money and without the item you sold.

 

Your only remedy is to throw yourself onto Paypal for an "investigation" by some pimply faced numbnut in Bangalore who will "investigate" solely from his cube, and probably err on the side of the buyer (whom you then have to rely on to mail you back the item or another investagation will be opened...)

 

That is freaking scary.

 

This happened to me when I sold a brand new piece of software that some dumbass couldn't figure out how to install on his Mac. He paid for it so I sent the item. Then he demanded a refund and Paypal put the money in limbo. Fortunately, the guy didn't follow up but I still had my cash in a no-mans land for 3 weeks and did not even have the software to re-sell in case I lost the "investigation".

 

I'm still jumpy about that one and will, therefore, never sell a damn thing using Paypal.

 

When money leaves an account, the transaction is over. Ended. Period. Just like when I put cash in my wallet after an in-person sale: nobody had better reach in and try to get it out or I'll...er...shake my fist at them and tell them to stop.

[mymindsok]

 

just use your credit card with paypal. if you ever get jipped, your credit card company will back your ass up and come through almost guaranteed. dont rely on paypal alone to recover funds. a lot of bad experiences people have, could have been avoided if they take extra precautions, like making sure the other party is paypal verified, or has an account that is at least a year old. making sure eCheck payments clear before sending the item, ect... as long as its still the most commonly used method of online payment for personal trading, i'll be using it. google checkout could have dethroned paypal, but they made the stupid mistake of requiring a special sellers account to accept payments.

 

 

 

Man. you are 100% correct.

 

I've used PP hunderds of times without a hassel. It's convenient and if you use a CC or a debit card you are very safe. Plus, everyone has a PP account!

[jhorne]

 

My problem with Paypal is that after a transaction has "cleared" they can take the money back. In other words, when you're selling something after you have verified the funding in someone's account, gotten your money, and shipped the item they can say "sorry" and take back the cash, leaving you without money and without the item you sold. Your only remedy is to throw yourself onto Paypal for an "investigation" by some pimply faced numbnut in Bangalore who will "investigate" solely from his cube, and probably err on the side of the buyer (whom you then have to rely on to mail you back the item or another investagation will be opened...) That is freaking scary. This happened to me when I sold a brand new piece of software that some dumbass couldn't figure out how to install on his Mac. He paid for it so I sent the item. Then he demanded a refund and Paypal put the money in limbo. Fortunately, the guy didn't follow up but I still had my cash in a no-mans land for 3 weeks and did not even have the software to re-sell in case I lost the "investigation". I'm still jumpy about that one and will, therefore, never sell a damn thing using Paypal. When money leaves an account, the transaction is over. Ended. Period. Just like when I put cash in my wallet after an in-person sale: nobody had better reach in and try to get it out or I'll...er...shake my fist at them and tell them to stop.

 

 

If you follow the Seller Protection Policy to the letter, you can't get scammed. They may put your money in limbo, but I always take the money out IMMEDIATELY. And someone can correct me if this is no longer correct, but at one time I know they could NOT take money back out of your checking account without your permission.

 

I hate taking PayPal, but if I didn't I would probably be getting a lot less for whatever I sell since it seems everyone wants to use PayPal to pay.

[dewees]

PP is NOT subject to federal banking regulations. They do whatever they want.

 

 

Why TF do you do this to me!!?? {censored}! Two {censored}ing hours at the gym, and three pounds later I'm staring at pancakes on HC! Celery and peanut butter just isn't the same thing, man!

[dewees]

 

I refuse to use PayPal... they bungled one too many transactions for me. Long delays in getting partial (I repeat partial) refunds from eBay scammers are part of it too. I hear that eBay is going to eliminate all other types of payments in the near future, and will only accept PayPal transactions. eBay owns PayPal, so it'd going to be interesting to see if they lose business when they make this change. I know they'll permanently lose me as a buyer. :poke:

 

 

I thought they already considered this and found that they just couldn't do it for some legal reason.

 

I know they'd lose me as a seller if they required PayPal. But I already avoid selling on eBay as much as possible. I have had great success selling here, on TGP, and Craigslist. No fees and no wacko buyers who can't follow simple instructions.

[kenh]

 

Plus, everyone has a PP account!

 

 

Except me. It least I hope I don't.

[Inspector 71]

they just want to gain as much interest as they can on your money

 

[als_lespaul]

I too have had bad experiences with Paypal. That's why I'm glad to see things such as www.revolutionmoneyexchange.com popping up. I dunno if they'll get off the ground, but I signed up for an account anyway. Anything has to be better than paypal!

[Steverino]

I've never had a problem with Paypal.

[gypsypanther]

Paypal's bad times. I really wish I would stop getting GAS so much so I could stop using it. There's not enough good guitar shops around to just buy {censored} from there, and eBay often seems like my only option.

 

That's a {censored}ty story though, man. And a familiar one.

[LaXu]

To me the REAL problem is that there is even a NEED for a service like Paypal. Granted, I've used it a few times too and it is certainly fast and convenient, but not much more than using the IBAN/SWIFT code thing we Europeans have. I've bought a lot of things through German/UK eBay and always paid with bank wire transfer without hassle, in nearly the same time it takes to pay via Paypal. When dealing with US banks it's always been a huge pain in the ass.

 

What you really need is a bank overhaul to take your system to the Internet age with easy bank transfers from your own bank without middlemen like Paypal.

[ElectricEye]

 

Sorry bro, you are completely wrong. When I worked for a bank a few years ago, those transactions processed every night at midnight. Now, it is even faster. If a company says that it takes "up to a week" to "process" a refund, then they are just trying to tell you that so they do not have to get in a hurry. After all...if you keep someone else's money in the bank a few extra days, then that's money the company makes in interest. It's like paying a $25 "activation fee" for a new cell phone. Seriously? They type your info in the computer, press a couple buttons, and that's it. Just a simple way to yet again gouge the customer.... ...and for the record, I Hate Paypal, and ebay. They have both gone down the tubes, IMO.

 

 

Look, I'm not saying PP is perfect. I, personally, haven't had any issues with them. But, if you dig in to their TOS, they tell you up front what the deal is. I'm not sure if this is exactly what your situation is, but here's what I just found on their site:

 

https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/main.jsp;jsessionid=LpLS1CTTcGG7kwpqLTwGyfQncxpLG4nW4T7QF12y2YJ9NRLnJvhF!492315654?locale=en_US&_dyncharset=UTF-8&countrycode=US&cmd=_help&serverInstance=9003&t=solutionTab&ft=browseTab&ps=solutionPanels&solutionTopic=20065&solutionId=12766&isSrch=Yes

 

 

 

Question :

Answer :

A When a payment is refunded using the Issue Refund link, PayPal credits the refund based on the source of the original payment.

 

* For payments sent using a credit card, PayPal credits the credit card.

* For payments funded with another funding source, PayPal credits the refund to your PayPal balance.

* For payments funded by a credit card and another source, PayPal credits the credit card portion to the credit card and the remainder to your PayPal balance.

* For payments sent using Redemption Codes/Gift Certificates, the points are returned to your Redemption Code/Gift Certificate balance.

 

 

 

Refunds made using the Send Money tab will post to your PayPal account balance, regardless of the original payment source. PayPal fees associated with the payment are not credited to either the sender or the receiver because Send Money constitutes a payment, not a refund.

 

Note:

 

* Due to credit card policies, refunds to credit cards can take up to 30 days to appear on your statement.

[steve_man]

I understand their "terms of service." What I'm telling you is that the transactions can and should go through instantly. Every credit card company uses the "hold the cash until the last possible second" strategy to make money. It stinks, but that's the way they work.

[n'V'us]

I buy and sell using paypal. When buying I always use my credit card because they back me up, when selling I always immediately withdraw the funds and have them go to my bank account, and don't send the items until the money is actually in my bank account.

[ElectricEye]

 

To me the REAL problem is that there is even a NEED for a service like Paypal. Granted, I've used it a few times too and it is certainly fast and convenient, but not much more than using the IBAN/SWIFT code thing we Europeans have. I've bought a lot of things through German/UK eBay and always paid with bank wire transfer without hassle, in nearly the same time it takes to pay via Paypal. When dealing with US banks it's always been a huge pain in the ass. What you really need is a bank overhaul to take your system to the Internet age with easy bank transfers from your own bank without middlemen like Paypal.

 

 

Unfortunately, with the amount of fraud that goes on on ebay nowadays, it's really the only form of protection you have. If you do a direct bank transfer, money order, etc. there's very little recourse if you don't get your item.

[Dave67]

Paypal is the biggest charge back to credit cards in history. My wife work for at First Data, they process most credit cards in the US. Paypal get charged back millions of dollars year from credit card companies. I will not use Paypal for anything.

[kanoute]

Never had any problems...makes things very easy!!

[The Real MC]

Paypal is the biggest scam. ebay owns PP - they take a cut on the sale and then they take ANOTHER cut on the escrow transaction. Double dipping.

 

On top of that, there is little policing and combatting fraud.

[lerxstcat]

If you buy or sell on Ebay, Paypal is all but necessary whether Ebay actually requires it or not. Most buyers and sellers want to use it for the sake of speed and convenience, so as a buyer you'll miss out on a lot of auctions that require a Paypal account to bid.

 

As a seller you'll miss out on bids and your items will sell for less, then it'll take a lot longer to get your money and you'll have a lot more non-paying bidders.

 

If you pay attention to what you're doing and get the money out of your Paypal account before you ship an item, you won't lose your money in sales. And as a buyer if the seller is slow to ship, you file a Paypal claim 7 days after you paid and that forces the seller to get off his lazy ass and send you your item if he wants his money.

 

If you send someone a money order and he doesn't send your item, there's really nothing you can do unless you want to travel to the address you sent it to - which could turn out to be a PO Box. And you can't use a credit card with most private sellers - unless it's via Paypal.

 

It's not perfect, but it's the best we've got at the moment for the purpose of instant payments among private individuals.

[steve_man]

I'm about as done with ebay as I am with paypal. I despise them both. And transferring your money out of paypal does not mean they will not draw the money out of your account if they want to.

[GarysBlues]

I was under the impression that if you didn't use Pay-Pay you had to offer Credit Card use or you couldn't have a E-Bay account?

 

I still use PP so I'm not positive about this. But I have heard this? Any validity to it? The E-Bays I see using MO's and Bank Checks exclusively still have a Pay-Pal account. They just don't use it?

 

Be carefull with this. You may wind up with a E-Bay account you can't use?

 

I use all Three Pay-Pal, MO's and Bank Checks. But I have no illusions on EXACTLY how Pay-Pal works. PP would lead you to believev you will get your money back should something go wrong? THATS WRONG

 

Pay-Pay pays you by the money they take out of the accused persons account. If he already removed the Funds? Your STUCK! Pay-Pal will pressure that person to refund your money and use collection agencys and eveything else. BUT they will NOT pay you back. You will not recieve a CENT till that specific indiviual that screwed you. pays you back.

 

So what so good about Pay-Pal?

[Cletus Spuckle]

Here's an update: Paypal released the hold on my cancelled transaction. I cancelled the transaction on May 8 and that's when the hold began. The hold was removed on May 17. Nine days. Now another three days to move the money out of paypal and to my bank account.