How are you 6 years later?

[Ryst]

When was the first and last time a skyscraper ever fell from Fire like they say the twin towers did? NEVER..before 911....How is it possible for a building to fall at freefall velocity according to Newtonian/HUMAN physics? It's NOT. Why did hundreds of Firefighters and policeman hear bombs going off before the buildings fell? Were they just hearing things? Oh, and Why did Building 7 fall when it had a few small fires in it...It was the 3rd skyscraper to EVER fall from fire In HISTORY...and how did it fall at almost freefall speed thus violating the laws of physics as we understand them on earth? Why did Norad basically stand down and why were these jets allowd to fly all around, change directions and hit targets without jets intercepting them...They were on Payne Stewarts plan almost immediately after they lost contact with them...I could go on and on and send you to 1000's of links but the bottom line is, something {censored}ing smells if you evern spend 1/2 hour looking into the inconsistancies...It pisses me the {censored} off and this is my country and the Government according to the Constitution works for ME...I'm supposed to believe this bull{censored} they are trying to cram down my throat like i'm stupid? Well i'm not so I started investigating.

I guess you missed the part where I said "Not trying to start an argument. I am really just curious."

It's not like someone lit a match an started a fire in the WTC buildings. The fire came from planes hitting them at high speeds, right?

You can't compare this event to anything else in history because nothing like this has ever happened before. So, there are no experts. There are only theories and "educated conclusions".

I am not disagreeing with you. And I am not going to argue with you. I just find explanations on both sides hard to believe and understand. I do think the WTC7 collapsing is a bull{censored} explanation. No visible fire but the building collapses??? That's very hard for me to believe.

The problem with doing your own investigations is that anyone can be an expert. Anyone can write a blog, anyone can make a DVD, anyone can put a video on youtube, and anyone can manipulate. Its really hard to find any truth.

[coyote-1]

There ARE lots of unanswered questions. "Explosive charges" in the twin towers are not one of those questions, at least not among intelligent people.

As to the maudlin aspect, unfortunately *every* politician in the nation has a vested interest in keeping it going. Which sucks, because perpetual grief walls us off from rational analysis and action.

I think there are three reasons why it has stayed so much in the public consciousness. * There are a lot of unanswered questions. * I think most people believe it was the opening act of something, not an event that happened and is done. * What's happening right now to the rescue workers. But I agree with you about the maudlin aspects. Wallowing in self-pity is never healthy.

 

[sventvkg]

I guess you missed the part where I said "Not trying to start an argument. I am really just curious." It's not like someone lit a match an started a fire in the WTC buildings. The fire came from planes hitting them at high speeds, right? You can't compare this event to anything else in history because nothing like this has ever happened before. So, there are no experts. There are only theories and "educated conclusions". I am not disagreeing with you. And I am not going to argue with you. I just find explanations on both sides hard to believe and understand. I do think the WTC7 collapsing is a bull{censored} explanation. No visible fire but the building collapses??? That's very hard for me to believe. The problem with doing your own investigations is that anyone can be an expert. Anyone can write a blog, anyone can make a DVD, anyone can put a video on youtube, and anyone can manipulate. Its really hard to find any truth.

Hey man, I'm sorry..I wasn't arguing with ya, I was just making my point loudly..i'm just pissed off man!!....I'm a vet...I love this country and I don't like what I see and vibe brother.

[Ryst]

Hey man, I'm sorry..I wasn't arguing with ya, I was just making my point loudly..i'm just pissed off man!!....I'm a vet...I love this country and I don't like what I see and vibe brother.

. I'm pissed too. But I just have a hard time believing in anything right now.

[D Charles]

 

Not trying to start an argument. I am really just curious. When was the last time that planes that big hit buildings pretty much dead on and 400-500mph?

 

 

 

 

http://www.evesmag.com/empirestatecrash.htm

 

http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=179

 

If those planes could have knocked down the towers it would have happened right when they crashed. Also, the steel used to make the tower's frames was spec'd to 3000 degrees. Jet fuel burns off at 1200 degrees.

 

 

 

I wouldn't really group these guys in with the nutjobs:

 

http://www.ae911truth.org/

[Riff1970]

Umm, fire melts steel. Fire is hot. When a fire burns next to steel, the steel gets hot. When steel gets hot, it gets soft. When steel gets soft, it fails.

Do they mine for steel I beams in the ground like they do coal? NO! They use fire to melt it and shape it like that.


No conspiracies needed.

[coyote-1]

Wow.

If those planes could have knocked down the towers it would have happened right when they crashed. Also, the steel used to make the tower's frames was spec'd to 3000 degrees. Jet fuel burns off at 1200 degrees.

A couple months ago, a fuel truck crashed under an overpass and exploded.

The overpass did not instantly collapse. What happened was this: The truck crashed into the support structure. It ignited, exploded, and then burned.

The overpass gradually weakened. Eventually, the steel began to give way. It never collapsed, but the steel did indeed weaken and begin to flex.

At WTC, it did not take the steel actually melting to create the collapse. All it took was for heat to weaken it a bit. BTW, have you ever heard a large bolt shear under high pressure? It sounds like a small explosion, like an M80 going off. Anyone who has ever used a simple rivet gun can imagine it....

STOP the nonsense already. There are plenty of viable conspiracy theories around the event to explore; explosives being pre-planted in the Twin Towers is NOT one of those viable theories. Only idiots continue to imagine that one.

[D Charles]

So what was the kindling temperature of the steel used in the bridge and at what temperature does gas burn and for how long?

 

 

 

There ARE lots of unanswered questions. "Explosive charges" in the twin towers are not one of those questions, at least not among intelligent people.

 

 

You know coyote, commenting on the intelligence of people who don't agree with you is why we have a political forum. I'll certainly put my I.Q. scores up against yours if you like.

 

Did you even check the link to the Architects and Engineers' site?

[coyote-1]

Those are not the only relevant questions. You've missed one: The LOAD on the weakened structural component.

The overpass had relatively little load on it. The sofetening WTC steel had to support a load that can be calculated thusly, in terms of concrete alone:
concrete weight: 150lbs per cubic foot
WTC floor area per floor: 54500+ sq ft, 6+ inch thickness

Do the math. Ignoring the roof equipment, the steel, the glass, the materials in the stairwells and core, the desks, the paper, the furniture, and all the other free weight, the South Tower had AT LEAST 120 million pounds bearing down on that weakened steel; the North Tower at least 73 million pounds. All that had to happen was for one point to fail, and the rest would have to follow in a chain reaction (which accounts for the supposed "series of explosions"). It's fairly easy to see, given that weight, why the South Tower collapsed first even though it had been hit later - and it's easy to see why they both went down.

Sorry dude - intelligent people look at ALL the factors. Not just one single melting point - which is the tactic favored by irrational conspiracy theorists.

So what was the kindling temperature of the steel used in the bridge and at what temperature does gas burn and for how long? You know coyote, commenting on the intelligence of people who don't agree with you is why we have a political forum. I'll certainly put my I.Q. scores up against yours if you like. Did you even check the link to the Architects and Engineers' site?

BTW - I was there and witnessed the whole thing. I even began to go there to help, but looked up and knew they were going to fall so I left. Where were you? Kentucky???

[UstadKhanAli]

Not trying to start an argument. I am really just curious. When was the last time that planes that big hit buildings pretty much dead on and 400-500mph?

 

 

I dunno. This doesn't happen often, does it? Fortunately....

[Wide]

I'll certainly put my I.Q. scores up against yours if you like.

I'm impressed

[UstadKhanAli]

Argument ad hominem is just around the corner?

[Super 8]

I could go on and on and send you to 1000's of links but the bottom line is, something {censored}ing smells if you evern spend 1/2 hour looking into the inconsistancies...It pisses me the {censored} off and this is my country and the Government according to the Constitution works for ME...I'm supposed to believe this bull{censored} they are trying to cram down my throat like i'm stupid? Well i'm not so I started investigating.

 

 

Sean, while you're investigating you may want to check this out. popularmechanics.com

 

If 9/11 had been an "inside job", someone would have leaked it by now. Everyone knows our government can't keep a secret. Something this big would be impossible to keep under wraps.

[D Charles]

 

BTW - I was there and witnessed the whole thing. I even began to go there to help, but looked up and knew they were going to fall so I left. Where were you? Kentucky???

 

 

Yep, I was in Kentucky watching the whole mess on CNN (pretty sure I was even wearing shoes). My friend Dee who once sang in my band got pummeled by debris from the towers and escaped coughing and scared sh*tless from the huge cloud of smoke thrown up, so I've just got a first hand account and media reports to go by.

 

So you where there and due to proximity to the disaster you 'knew' they were gonna fall? Well ladies and gentlemen, meet coyote-1; the prophet from New York!

 

I don't profess to understand a lot of physics but you claimed I was basing my opinion on only one fact so I'll be glad to ask you some questions that I can't find the answers to:

 

1 In fires there is a slow onset of collapse, only in demolition from explosive charges is there a fast one. How come they came down so fast?

 

2 Why was there no evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel? (High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never

[echoshock]

Sean, while you're investigating you may want to check this out. popularmechanics.com If 9/11 had been an "inside job" , someone would have leaked it by now. Everyone knows our government can't keep a secret. Something this big would be impossible to keep under wraps.

 

 

True. all the conspiracy theorists seem to be giving an awful lot of credit to this administration and the amount of intelligence they must have to pull off something of this magnitude.

[Ryst]

True. all the conspiracy theorists seem to be giving an awful lot of credit to this administration and the amount of intelligence they must have to pull off something of this magnitude.

But before 9/11 Bush was the stupidest president ever. You can't have it both ways. If he is an idiot, then he couldn't have had anything to do with this.

[lowendnyc]

I was at the WTC that day on account of my day job, and because of that job, I stayed down there while all the {censored} happened. I also lived south enough in Manhattan at the time as to be in the zone right where you had to prove to the cops you lived there in order to gain access. Further more, I also have a reverse commute to Jersey City to this day, so it means being down in the hole every work day on my way to the PATH trains. So to me, this stuff never seems to go away. For the first few years I found 9-11 remembrances very sad, then they faded back. Last year, it was kinda tough 'cause of that goddamn Oliver Stone movie. The commercials for it were on TV all the time just ahead of the anniversary, and it almost induced in me some sort of post-traumatic freak out. This year, I happened to be in a plane flying into NYC on New York, and for whatever reason, I barely gave the day a thought. I guess it was the thought of getting back to my seven month old daughter that distracted me, and I'm glad for that.

[Anderton]

So I looked at the thread Geoff referenced, and found that I had said this:

"As the facts come out, the level of organization is indisputable. This is not due to a couple of lone malcontents. Action will be taken against governments, starting a spiral of reciprocation not unlike that in Northern Ireland or the Middle East. This is the first day of a new kind of warfare, not because terrorism is new -- it's been around forever -- but because of a quantum upping of the ante compared to driving a car bomb into a building."

Now that spiral of reciprocation has touched Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Iran, Bali, Australia, the UK...the list goes on...I don't see it spiralling in the other direction any time soon, either.

[Alan Roberts]

I can tell you one thing, if our government were going to attack it's own people it sure as hell wouldn't have hit the WTC.

 

Why would the WTC's be off limits?

[the stranger]

How are you 6 years later?

 

 

I'm good. Better than before. Always looking up. I don't subscribe to the generalized lunacy that seems so trendy these days.

 

Absurdity. No rest for the wicked. Aided by the passive and complacent. Apathetic spiral into tyranny. Controlled and executed through various broadcast/publishing variables.

 

No truth in a world of espionage and subterfuge.

 

Truth is within. The collective truth. Time to wake up the collective will. United we stand, divided we fall.

 

And therein lies the problem:

 

 

I don't see it spiraling in the other direction any time soon, either.

 

 

Than this is what you will see. And more importantly, what you believe.

And what you believe, you shall manifest. Same for the collective.

 

Tomorrow is a new day. Today is right now. Right now is forever.

 

And war is the work of tyrants. People don't have some natural instinct. You have been bred for war. The mass consciousness is trapped in a construct that doesn't reflect it's true will. This results in chaos. Disorder.

 

Choose life, not death. Project love in every circumstance and this is what you shall receive. Theology isn't some man-made delusion. This about energy and your ability to harness this energy and find your true potential. Some level of physics man is not yet able to perceive or describe. Love is energy. You can feel it. I hope you feel it while you read this. It's only text, but it makes you feel. The pen is mightier than the sword.

 

And if you think you haven't been brainwashed, you should let me give you the commercial quiz. This is where I sing the first half of a random commercial jingle and then point the imaginary mic at you and let you finish it. Nobody fails the quiz. You think you can control it, but it takes an unrealistic effort to maintain that wall. And think about children. Vice City is great fun. But, should 12 year olds be running simulations like this? CSI before bedtime 24/7?

 

What's the point?

 

Stop letting yourselves become part of the cycle. See what you want to see, not what they are showing you. Be the change you wish to see.

 

Craig,

 

You should rise above that despair and hopelessness. Refuse to submit. Join the collective of truth. Manifest destiny. You of all people know these are not rantings of an insane man. Look at all you have created. Your dreams have lead you to great accomplishments and variables, like this one, that you never imagined. You never let go of your dreams.

 

And we as a whole should not let go of the dreams of the collective. Do the dream, do the machine.

 

 

d.r.i. ( 1988) CONFORM - IT'S ONLY NEED DISTORT - NOT WHAT IT SEEMS RESORT - TO THE DEED REPORT - TO THE MACHINE MODERN DAY VENDOR THAT SELLS YOU HELL A LINE IS FORMED, WILL YOU LIVE TO TELL? MONEY - MACHINE, BECOME ALL ONE HAND TO HAND, THE DAMAGE DONE CONFORM - IT'S ONLY NEED DISTORT - NOT WHAT IT SEEMS RESORT - TO THE DEED REPORT - TO THE MACHINE WAS IT OVER WHEN IT STARTED? HAS THE WARMTH SINCE DEPARTED? DID YOU PUT YOUR LIFE ON HOLD? ON THE SHELF WHILE FIRING THE LOAD?

 

[Beck]

It

[Anderton]

Craig, You should rise above that despair and hopelessness. Refuse to submit.

 

 

I don't submit, but I do observe. There's plenty I observe that is about hope and beauty. But not in this case.

 

That doesn't mean I don't do everything I can to counteract it. But I have to be realistic enough to understand, and see, what needs to be counteracted.

[the stranger]

Bush is just a pawn. Why would he know anything, anyway? He can't even form a coherent sentence. He is nothing but a scapegoat. The real people to look at would be organizational espionage and subterfuge outfits employed by the governments and corporations of the world.

 

The merchants of perpetual war don't really want resolution, ya know?

 

With your proposed "solution", everything would be peachy. And manipulation, exploitation, and other imperial tactics are far more difficult in times of peace.

Chaos has more opportunity to be capitalized on than order.

[the stranger]

I don't submit, but I do observe. There's plenty I observe that is about hope and beauty. But not in this case. That doesn't mean I don't do everything I can to counteract it. But I have to be realistic enough to understand, and see, what needs to be counteracted.

 

 

Counteraction is reaction.

[DRHDRH]

Bummer of a day for sure, at work when it happened we had a TV up and running all day in a conference room. Not much work got done that day. I recall seeing the first bulding burning and thinking "bad accident". then the second plane hit.

I see the timed explosive argument is still alive, I still can't buy it.

As the bulding collapsed, each floor dropped on to the one below it like a stack of pancakes and the windows were all blowing out as the floors collapsed. One theory here was the timed explosives one. You don't need any explosives, the only place for all the air to go is blow out the windows.