Members blue2blue Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 According to the Feiten site: The strings are moved closer to the first fret a precise distance based on the scale length, fret width and string gauge of your guitar. The slight overhang of our nut (the 'Shelf') does this without altering your guitar in any way. So it's even fine for vintage guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 Vintage factor doesn't mean squat to me on a "player" - I'd recommend doing both the refret and the BFTS. After all, it's not like you plan on selling it, and IMHO, you might as well have it playing the way you like it if you're going to keep on using it. :phil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the stranger Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 Cool thread. I always wondered about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 After stewing on it for a day, I called The Amp Shop and requested that my guitar also be refretted. I just wanted to think about it for a day since it was a sort of unexpected new wrinkle, and I wanted time to digest it instead of making a snap decision. And I'm really excited to play the guitar with the new frets. I'm getting it replaced with the same type of frets, which are apparently "lower height" frets. When you look at the frets near the fifteenth fret and how worn the other frets are, it's amazing what a huge difference. Some of the frets looked about 50% worn!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 And no, there's no digging and cutting into my guitar at all. The tech verified this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 After stewing on it for a day, I called The Amp Shop and requested that my guitar also be refretted. Dude, it's a no-brainer. You don't own that guitar purely for re-sell value; you play the thing. Frets from 1967, unless it's been hanging in a museum somewhere, need to be re-done. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 It was a no-brainer, Jeff. When we were talking about it, I felt in my gut that I wanted this done. But since I had the option of thinking about it for a day or more, I took it. It's more for my own peace of mind than anything else, I suppose. I just like letting things sit for a while if I have the option (no, I don't mix this way...I go for it, I make submixes, I keep moving). It was a lot more money, so I went home, looked at the bank account, and then just went about my business, woke up this morning, and thought, "Yeah. I'll call 'em today and make sure it's refretted." I'm not hanging this guitar up on my wall (and quite frankly, it ain't quite purty enough to do that anyway, it's definitely used). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 If you don't mind my asking, Ken, how much was the fret job? I'm looking at having one of my old faithfuls re-fretted, and I'm not sure what to expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 If you don't mind my asking, Ken, how much was the fret job? I'm looking at having one of my old faithfuls re-fretted, and I'm not sure what to expect. I think they're charging $425-450 including the Buzz Feiten thing, and the Buzz Feiten thing ordinarily is $180, so yeah, it's not cheap. The person who does it, Tina, sounds really passionate about doing refretting, and said that it's her specialty, and since I don't know anyone else who does it and got a good vibe from her, she gets the nod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 $245 - $270 for a refret job, if it's done with good wire and without hacking up the fingerboard, is, IMHO, a reasonable price. And if you're going with the stock fretwire, you should not really notice any major change (in a negative sense) in the way the guitar feels and plays. And badly worn frets can definitely have an effect on the guitar's intonation... I think you made the right decision Ken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gtrbass Posted October 17, 2007 Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 Hey Ken, I've had Tina work on my guitars and basses before. She is very good at what she does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 If you don't mind my asking, Ken, how much was the fret job? I'm looking at having one of my old faithfuls re-fretted, and I'm not sure what to expect.You might want to consider asking about how much it would cost to take a router to it and round off some of the pointy areas... just a suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 On the flipside, if I wanted to be in tune all the time... ... I'd play a keyboard. I'm just saying. On the subject of keyboards and tuning stability, I have just three letters for you:VCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 You might want to consider asking about how much it would cost to take a router to it and round off some of the pointy areas... just a suggestion. Mwhahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted October 17, 2007 Author Members Share Posted October 17, 2007 Hey Ken,I've had Tina work on my guitars and basses before. She is very good at what she does. I had a feeling. Sometimes you can really sense that pride of workmanship and near-obsessiveness and confidence that someone has at what they do, and I really got that from her. I can't wait to get the guitar back now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's gonna be two weeks, and that's just way too long!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted October 18, 2007 Members Share Posted October 18, 2007 Or you could have your SG refretted like this:http://www.truetemperament.com/ I could buy that, if the price weren't too bad...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 I got my '67 SG back from the store yesterday. With the Buzz Feiten tuning system and the new frets, the guitar plays like a dream. The previously problematic 12th-15th frets plays beautifully, perfectly in tune. The area by the 3rd fret also plays perfectly in tune. It's bloody amazing. This guitar used to really have a lot of intonation problems. The new frets are great. It's easier to play now, but still feels like MY guitar. I can't wait to play it with my band next week in rehearsal. It's very exciting. Thing is, I can't quite figure out what they did. My guitar looks essentially the same (shiny new frets aside), it just plays much better. Whatever this BF system is, it's aesthetically really subtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 P.S. Dak, I'm really enjoying your CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted November 2, 2007 Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 Thing is, I can't quite figure out what they did. My guitar looks essentially the same (shiny new frets aside), it just plays much better. Whatever this BF system is, it's aesthetically really subtle. Pretty sweet, huh? As I think I said way earlier in this thread, I was blown away the first time I strummed a 15th fret G and... wow, in tune. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pk1fan Posted November 2, 2007 Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 I got my '67 SG back from the store yesterday. With the Buzz Feiten tuning system and the new frets, the guitar plays like a dream. The previously problematic 12th-15th frets plays beautifully, perfectly in tune. The area by the 3rd fret also plays perfectly in tune. It's bloody amazing. This guitar used to really have a lot of intonation problems. The new frets are great. It's easier to play now, but still feels like MY guitar. I can't wait to play it with my band next week in rehearsal. It's very exciting. Thing is, I can't quite figure out what they did. My guitar looks essentially the same (shiny new frets aside), it just plays much better. Whatever this BF system is, it's aesthetically really subtle. Thanks for the update ! I have a Garrison with " Buzz Feiten TS " and love it:love: . Only downside is when I play an instrument that does not have the "BFTS" I notice a lot of tuning issues that I did not notice before:freak:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members motord Posted November 2, 2007 Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 Aren't the natural intonation issues of the guitar part of the instrument's appeal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted November 2, 2007 Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 Aren't the natural intonation issues of the guitar part of the instrument's appeal? Well, there's no rule that every guitar you own needs to be perfect. You can have your crappy, out of tune guitar for the funked up stuff, and your other guitar that's been tricked out with a BFTS to be in tune when it matters. Remember, some people play musical styles where it helps to be in tune with keyboards, horns, pianos and other elements where your funky, marginally-tuned appeal doesn't flow so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 Aren't the natural intonation issues of the guitar part of the instrument's appeal? 1. My guitar had some bad intonation to where things were out of tune. It needed refretting as well. The "natural intonation issues" were being out of tune and with worn frets. It's now much easier to play and is nicely intonated. Which guitar would you rather play? 2. Why do you consider another kind of tuning system "unnatural"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members UstadKhanAli Posted November 2, 2007 Author Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 Pretty sweet, huh? As I think I said way earlier in this thread, I was blown away the first time I strummed a 15th fret G and... wow, in tune. Nice. The SG just naturally sounds better. The notes ring together much more sweetly. It's much more playable. I have no plans to do this to any of my other guitars. My SG's intonation was really far off. The other guitars that I have have far less intonation issues. If they ever get out of whack, then I'll have it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fetishfrog Posted November 2, 2007 Members Share Posted November 2, 2007 Thing is, I can't quite figure out what they did. My guitar looks essentially the same (shiny new frets aside), it just plays much better. Whatever this BF system is, it's aesthetically really subtle. Look at the nut, it should have a shelf that overhangs the wood on the fret board by just a tiny bit. This helps to compensate for the fact that extra tension is required to fret notes in the lower positions of the guitar, effectively making them sharp in pitch. Also, the intonation points are slightly offset. For example, the low E string is set to be minus 2 cents when played open and perfect when fretted that the 12th fret. This approach is much in concert with 'stretch tuning' that piano tuners use when tuning a piano. In fact, Feiten developed the system while on tour with a piano tuner who tuned the touring concert piano every day. You can read more about the system on the US Patent website, just query for Feiten Tuning System. Personally, I think the approach is brilliant and all my guitars are intonated this way. Since I play steinbergers though, no need to move the nut. Enjoy your 'new' SG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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