Members Philter Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 $1799 without the solid state drive ($999 add-on). I obviously disagree that it's a turd, but to each his own I suppose. 4200 RPM on the standard drive... that's turd flavored in my book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 Hey, I saw a car the other day, and it only had two seats! Totally useless to ANYONE! What were they thinking? There was no truck bed for me to put my amplifier in on the way to gigs, and it had a gas-wasting V6 instead of a 4-cylinder... how could ANYONE ever consider owning such a vehicle! What a turd! Oh, wait... you mean, there are people who aren't EXACTLY like me, and may have DIFFERENT wants and needs from a car than I do? And that some people might actually LIKE that kind of car for the type of driving they do? Really? And I'm a complete and total moron for not being able to understand that not EVERYONE on the planet is exactly like me? Oh, I guess you're right. Maybe if Apple was making a strong line of products for many different applications I would agree with your point Jeff. As it is I had to leave Mac behind and buy a PC because they aren't. In my book Apple's reincarnation as a toy company is bad news for people who use computers as a tool. Apple went more than a year without updating their professional towers and then came out with nothing new except more toys. By the way calling someone a moron for dissing a commercial product=lame! How about giving your own opinion about the machine instead of making personal attacks like a douche? Big guy on the internet, rofl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 Philter, I own a MacBook Pro which is the best computer I've ever owned or used, bar none. If I required more PCI expandability and so on, I hardly would consider an 8-core Mac Pro tower a toy of any kind. But a silly Mac vs. PC discussion isn't a good use of anyone's time. I will NOT be buying the new MacBook, even though I think it's cool. It's not for me. But it's certainly for someone, and I actually think they'll do really well with it. In the meantime, between music, video, and the graphic design and web development I do for a living, I am perfectly happy with the professional-level quality of my high-end Mac. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 Best feature / sign of the future: The optional 64GB solid-state disk.Biggest omission: No firewire port. Dealbreakers (IMHO): Non-user replaceable battery, price.What's the performance like on the solid-state disk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spokenward Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 but first a little story -Several years ago, Takashino engaged in what has become a ritual in the industry. He carved a block of wood, wrote his name in Chinese characters on the block and gave it to Fukushima, then the engineering manager charged with creating a playback-only unit MD of that size in time for Sony's 50th corporate anniversary. The block was the same size as an MD disk and its plastic case, roughly the size of a pack of playing cards.A decade earlier, the project manager for the first Sony portable CD player had carved a block of wood 130 x 130 x 40 mm and wrote on it his name, Ohsone, in black ink. That wood block model was the target size for a megahit, the first Discman.And the chief designer of the PalmPilot kept a block in his coat pocket for months, insisting that achieving that size was more important than extra functions.http://www.eetimes.com/myf98/rr_lammers.htmlnow the question -Why didn't Sony do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CrashC Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 4200 RPM on the standard drive... that's turd flavored in my book When, exactly, do you need a faster hard drive? Video/audio editing? Loading time on games? And why would you buy a 13" screened .75" thick ultra portable to do this? I would heavily suggest keeping in mind the target use for this product. Absolutely everything about it is designed to fill the role of a fully functional computer that you can carry with you at all times. 3 pounds and three quarters of an inch thick. From what I see, this does it better than anyone else has been able to thus far. Personally, I'm completely blown away that they can squeeze a Core 2 Duo and 2 gig of RAM into that thing without it melting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 Philter, I own a MacBook Pro which is the best computer I've ever owned or used, bar none. If I required more PCI expandability and so on, I hardly would consider an 8-core Mac Pro tower a toy of any kind.But a silly Mac vs. PC discussion isn't a good use of anyone's time.I will NOT be buying the new MacBook, even though I think it's cool. It's not for me. But it's certainly for someone, and I actually think they'll do really well with it.In the meantime, between music, video, and the graphic design and web development I do for a living, I am perfectly happy with the professional-level quality of my high-end Mac. As a professional independent music arranger Apple has abandoned me. My only Mac choice for a sound-proof work area is the Mac Pro, which commands a ridiculous price for what it offers. I ended up building a PC for half of what a Mac Pro would have cost me. I'm not happy about being stuck using Windows but Apple has apparently decided to start pricing actual users out of their line up. I don't need 8 cores, that's ridiculous and so is the pricetag. The Imac is stupid for music because who wants to track instruments or mix with a soundmaking device in the middle of the desk in front of them? But I'm a moron for being unhappy with Apple's line up? Or a moron for being angry to see them putting all their effort towards gadgets and status symbols when I have come to depend on them for good computers after using Macs for the last decade plus? There is a growing chorus of people calling for a normal tower from Apple, not these 3k+ behemoths, just a normal tower for people who need to get a job done and not spend a fortune on a brand name. Instead we get crap like a $3000 laptop with soldered in RAM and a battery the user can't even replace. That's crazy resource allocation in my opinion. Apple turning into a fashion brand will not be a good move in the long run in my opinion. Fashion is fickle and does not breed loyalty. Apparently Apple can't compete in the normal computer market without resorting to gimmicks like this. All I need is a normal damn computer to get some work done and they don't make one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CrashC Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 Maybe if Apple was making a strong line of products for many different applications I would agree with your point Jeff. As it is I had to leave Mac behind and buy a PC because they aren't. In my book Apple's reincarnation as a toy company is bad news for people who use computers as a tool. Apple went more than a year without updating their professional towers and then came out with nothing new except more toys.By the way calling someone a moron for dissing a commercial product=lame! How about giving your own opinion about the machine instead of making personal attacks like a douche? Big guy on the internet, rofl. EDIT: You responded just before my post. I work all day on a Mac doing graphic design and some video editing, then go home to a PC notebook. The only thing my Mac can't do is run my 3D Studio Max software and that's only because Autodesk refuses to put it out for Mac, but that's only in the Mac OSX. Since they're Intel based now, I can dual boot my Mac into Windows and have both on one machine. The only downside is the premium on the hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 When, exactly, do you need a faster hard drive? Video/audio editing? Loading time on games? And why would you buy a 13" screened .75" thick ultra portable to do this?I would heavily suggest keeping in mind the target use for this product. Absolutely everything about it is designed to fill the role of a fully functional computer that you can carry with you at all times. 3 pounds and three quarters of an inch thick. From what I see, this does it better than anyone else has been able to thus far. Personally, I'm completely blown away that they can squeeze a Core 2 Duo and 2 gig of RAM into that thing without it melting. I guess if a normal laptop is too heavy then this is perfect? How much thinner is this than the actually "fully functional" line of laptops Apple already makes? If you had $3k to spend on a laptop why would you get this over a Macbook Pro? Who is that short on space that they would give up all the features of a real laptop for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 Personally, I'm completely blown away that they can squeeze a Core 2 Duo and 2 gig of RAM into that thing without it melting. Which, on a more practical basis, is exactly what my concern would be (as opposed to the lack of ports and drives that the intended customer doesn't use or need). How does this thing not melt into a puddle of goo? Amazing engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 EDIT: You responded just before my post.I work all day on a Mac doing graphic design and some video editing, then go home to a PC notebook. The only thing my Mac can't do is run my 3D Studio Max software and that's only because Autodesk refuses to put it out for Mac, but that's only in the Mac OSX. Since they're Intel based now, I can dual boot my Mac into Windows and have both on one machine. The only downside is the premium on the hardware. The premium for me was 100%, that is, the cheapest Mac that would serve my purpose cost 2x what a similar PC cost to build. That's because they have a giant hole in their lineup where a normal desktop should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 Instead we get crap like a $3000 laptop with soldered in RAM and a battery the user can't even replace. Who is this "we" you keep referring to? This computer wasn't at all made you people like you and me. Why are you so upset that Apple made something for someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CrashC Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 As a professional independent music arranger Apple has abandoned me. My only Mac choice for a sound-proof work area is the Mac Pro, which commands a ridiculous price for what it offers. I ended up building a PC for half of what a Mac Pro would have cost me. I'm not happy about being stuck using Windows but Apple has apparently decided to start pricing actual users out of their line up. I don't need 8 cores, that's ridiculous and so is the pricetag. The Imac is stupid for music because who wants to track instruments or mix with a soundmaking device in the middle of the desk in front of them? I'm curious why a Mac Pro is your only option? I guess I don't fully understand your situation. If you have to have a monitor on your desk somewhere, why is an iMac an issue? It's roughly the same size. Would a MacBook Pro not be able to do everything you need? It should be plenty fast enough. Are ports an issue? Hubs wouldn't solve that problem? But I'm a moron for being unhappy with Apple's line up? Or a moron for being angry to see them putting all their effort towards gadgets and status symbols when I have come to depend on them for good computers after using Macs for the last decade plus? There is a growing chorus of people calling for a normal tower from Apple, not these 3k+ behemoths, just a normal tower for people who need to get a job done and not spend a fortune on a brand name. Makes sense, but, again, I don't see how an iMac is so intrusive since you have to have a monitor either way. Instead we get crap like a $3000 laptop with soldered in RAM and a battery the user can't even replace. That's crazy resource allocation in my opinion. Apple turning into a fashion brand will not be a good move in the long run in my opinion. Fashion is fickle and does not breed loyalty. Apparently Apple can't compete in the normal computer market without resorting to gimmicks like this. All I need is a normal damn computer to get some work done and they don't make one. They're not out to make everyone happy. They're in it to make money. Super slim, ultra portable, go anywhere, any time is all the rage right now. I don't consider it crazy resource allocation to do exactly what has worked for them thus far... taking the hottest trend and making it as slick as possible. That being said, I see your point in them not offering a lower priced tower. I wish they offered that as well. Luckily, work pays for my towers. I'd like a Mac at home, which the Air would be perfect for. I could connect it to my monitor with the miniDVI at home, then take it with me for mobile internet access using a Verizon USB Aircard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 Clearly this thing is made for bloggers who hang in the Starbucks wi-fi zone all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 Clearly this thing is made for bloggers who hang in the Starbucks wi-fi zone all day. :D :D :DAnd if they hit that market hard, they'd make a LOT of money... certainly more so than serving up specialized computers for the world of audio geeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CrashC Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 The premium for me was 100%, that is, the cheapest Mac that would serve my purpose cost 2x what a similar PC cost to build. That's because they have a giant hole in their lineup where a normal desktop should be. Would the Mac have done anything for you in particular that the PC wouldn't? I hope you see my point that you seem to be the exception rather than the rule in that an iMac is too obtrusive, a MacBook Pro won't work and the balls out towers are overpowered and thus too expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Billster Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 :D :D :D And if they hit that market hard, they'd make a LOT of money... certainly more so than serving up specialized computers for the world of audio geeks. It's so worth the extra price for a MacBook Air in order to look askance at the unwashed Dell users who still need the ordering guide to figure out how to get a latte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 CrashC, The reason I can't put an IMac on my desk is because they are not silent. I track acoustic instruments sitting right in front of my computer, and my computer case goes in an isolation box on the floor. In addition to that show-stopper I'm bothered by the concept of all in one machines. Component failure should be a simple matter of swapping out the affected part and not one of either shipping it back to the retailer or junking the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 "Would the Mac have done anything for you in particular that the PC wouldn't?" Yes it would have run OSX, which is superior to the Windows operating systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Philter Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 "I hope you see my point that you seem to be the exception rather than the rule in that an iMac is too obtrusive, a MacBook Pro won't work and the balls out towers are overpowered and thus too expensive." I might be, or I might be one of the 90+% of computer users who DON'T go with a Mac, many for similar reasons to my own. The G3 and then G4 PowerPC product line suited me perfectly for a long time. It was weird to realize that Apple didn't make a computer for me any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alndln2 Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 Totally useless to ANYONE! Oh, wait... you mean, there are people who aren't EXACTLY like me? While I get your point, this does happen to be a musicians forum so most of us are going to look at from that point of view at first glance, and the new mini doesn't excite me anymore than Toshiba's mini laptops that have been out since the late 90's. Yes they do serve a function for people that want that convenience, but not mine unfortunately. Oh the shock, the horror! I beg forgiveness from the Apple Gods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 And I agree with you there, Alndln. But a few folks were pronouncing it a "turd", and useless, and all that. I thought there was a caveat that needed to be mentioned... useless for some folks does not mean that for others. I'm no Apple fanboy, but I'm a long-time user and I like the OS, and I think that based on the success of other consumerish Apple products over the last few years, they'll do well with this... and the people who get it (barring some technical screwup) will not think of it as a turd. It's just a matter of perspective. Once you acknowledge that this isn't a computer designed for high-end professional work (like audio), it still seems really cool for other uses. That's not so hard to understand, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lancaster Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 The ultimate winner for the coffee shop "My laptop is way cooler than yours" crowd. Does it come with Starbucks coupons? Heck, Starbucks should be selling them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CrashC Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 "I hope you see my point that you seem to be the exception rather than the rule in that an iMac is too obtrusive, a MacBook Pro won't work and the balls out towers are overpowered and thus too expensive."I might be, or I might be one of the 90+% of computer users who DON'T go with a Mac, many for similar reasons to my own. The G3 and then G4 PowerPC product line suited me perfectly for a long time. It was weird to realize that Apple didn't make a computer for me any more. Thanks for the sound isolation explaination. Makes sense. Arguing why the market share for macs is 10% runs headfirst into a Mac vs. PC debate, which I'm trying to avoid. I do, however, doubt that "many" PC users do so because they have to isolate the sound coming from their computer AND aren't willing to pay for a Mac Pro. I mean, the sound isolation is the real reason you can't use a Mac at this point... otherwise you would be, no? Just thinking out loud here, could you isolate a MBP the same as you would a tower? You'd not only have the Mac you want, but could also move it around the studio (not to mention out of the studio) when not tracking acoustic right in front of the desk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jeff da Weasel Posted January 16, 2008 Members Share Posted January 16, 2008 Just thinking out loud here, could you isolate a MBP the same as you would a tower? My MBP requires no isolation. It is completely and utterly silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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