Texas Specials in a Fender body and then in cheapo Squire body how much variation?

[elsupermanny14]

Essentially this is a question on how much one can expect the quality of the wood to impact the over all tone of a guitar. People often say that the majority of the tone comes from the pickups. So if that's the case how much variation can we expect to hear if we put Fender Texas Special pickups in an American Standard body and then put them in a Squire body? Both bodies are assumed to be alder, maple fret boards, 6 screw tremolos on them. Of course each guitar will be representative of it's respective quality, so the neck on the American standard will obviously be higher quality then the neck on the Squire, and so on.

 

I decided to use the Texas specials because for the most part I think most of us have a generally good knowledge of the tones and characteristics of the Texas Specials. So yeah, what variations in sound and characteristics can we expect from such a comparison?

[roygbiv]

Are you actually going to do the comparison?

 

Or are you talking hypothetically?

[SPONGEBOB]

A lot more than people think ... It won't sound as good as a good USA Alder body, I can promise you that.... bob

[tiltsta]

I suspect I would be unable to tell the difference.

[Songman68]

If both bodies are alder you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

[Frets99]

Maybe somebody should just do it.

[BG76]

It depends.

 

Will you be playing the guitar or listening to it?

 

For myself, I find that I play a lot better on a well made, high quality guitar. This makes me sound better plus it makes the experience of playing a lot more enjoyable.

 

I would bet that if someone posted clips of each many would not be able to tell the difference, but I would guess that if you were to pick up each instrument you would feel a difference.

[Will Chen]

My experience has been if using vintage styled underwound pups, even 2 guitars made from the same type of wood will sound slightly different played clean. Don't expect the American body to sound like angels singing though, the differences will be subtle. A nice piece of wood is a nice piece of wood regardless of brand or country of orgin. Using hotter pickups and turning up the gain will pretty much cover up any subtle differences.

[Will Chen]

 

...For myself, I find that I play a lot better on a well made, high quality guitar. This makes me sound better plus it makes the experience of playing a lot more enjoyable...

 

 

I read so many quotes like this and I guess I just don't get it. I've played so many guitars of different brands from different countries in my life I can't even keep count any more. There are good and bad guitars accross the board regardless of what the headstock says...

[BG76]

 

I read so many quotes like this and I guess I just don't get it. I've played so many guitars of different brands from different countries in my life I can't even keep count any more. There are good and bad guitars accross the board regardless of what the headstock says...

 

 

 

Well, you'll note that I didn't mention a brand. I own some great guitars that are from the lesser brands - such as a 1965 Epiphone Olympic, an old Harmony Soverign, etc... that play and sound fantastic.

 

I also own some very nice older Fender, Gibson, Martin and Guild guitars and some newer Gibson, Fender CS and Gretsch guitars that play and sound great.

 

I much prefer any of the above over some of the not so nice guitars I own - Squier 51, 1993 Gibson Les Paul Standard, etc...

[Will Chen]

Well, you'll note that I didn't mention a brand. I own some great guitars that are from the lesser brands - such as a 1965 Epiphone Olympic, an old Harmony Soverign, etc... that play and sound fantastic. I also own some very nice older Fender, Gibson, Martin and Guild guitars and some newer Gibson, Fender CS and Gretsch guitars that play and sound great. I much prefer any of the above over some of the not so nice guitars I own - Squier 51, 1993 Gibson Les Paul Standard, etc...

 

Fair enough!

 

However, weren't you implying the Fender being a superior built instrument to the Squier by initially posting? I would generally agree as a rule of thumb but I've played plenty of exceptions to that rule (especially the old Pro Tone series and the new Vintage Mod series). I've played Fender's before with misaligned bridges and sharp fret ends.

 

Back on topic. To the OP: were you planning on trying it? Love to hear your impressions of the results.

[BG76]

99 times out of 100 the Fender is a better instrument.

 

I remember the Squier ProTone series (if the series you reference was out in the late 90s) and I remember them being cool looking, lower quality guitars.

 

As far as sharp frets I have read about Gibson and Fender guitars with these on internet forums, but have never seen these in real life.

 

Misaligned bridges? Again, I have not seen it and as far as I know Fender builds all their guitars on CNC so again, I'm not sure if I buy it.

[nwtsnma]

they will sound the same, just louder in the guitar with more dense wood

[Will Chen]

 

...As far as sharp frets I have read about Gibson and Fender guitars with these on internet forums, but have never seen these in real life. Misaligned bridges? Again, I have not seen it and as far as I know Fender builds all their guitars on CNC so again, I'm not sure if I buy it.

 

 

I'm speaking from first hand experience, not internet rumor.

 

Guitar in question with a misaligned bridge was a '91 American Standard Tele which I bought when I was much less educated as to what makes a good guitar. The bridge assembly was slightly off center placing the low E string much closer to the neck edge than it should have been and on close examination you could see that the pickguard and bridge edge were not parallel. Squier builds all their guitars on a CNC as well so if you are implying Fender can't have QC issues as a result of the CNC, you are eliminating a huge perceived difference between Fender and Squier. The Pro Tone series was made in Korea of which Fender has now enough faith to badge Korean guitars with the Fender brand (current production Special Edition Koa Telecaster an excellent example).

 

Sharp fret ends have been encountered on 2 occasions, one on a Mexi Strat and the other (better described as rough rather than sharp) a Mexi Tele both at GC. I've also played quite a few Americans with "fret humps" due to poorly finished fret ends which were capped with laquer (or some other finish agent, a common technique used by luthiers to ensure fret sprout doesn't result in sharp frets) and not sanded flush to the neck edge.

 

I'm not implying Squiers are less flawed than Fenders, quite the contrary. The above issues happen far more frequently on Squiers than Fenders. However, every guitar must be examined on an individual basis prior to making an assessment.

[BG76]

To be honest with you, I have not bought an off the rack Fender since 1987.

 

I am surprised that you have found frets coated with laquer on Fenders as (IIRC) they stopped using poly on their necks in 92 or 93 and only use laquer on the RI guitars.

 

The satin stuff - which coupled with the newer US neck shape is why I won't buy one - is applied before the guitar is fretted, so I would be interested in knowing how it's getting on top of the frets.

 

Not doubting you, I just have never seen this.

 

I have never seen a Fender (or Squier) for that matter that has been routed wrong in recent years. I guess I'm just lucky:)

[Will Chen]

 

I am surprised that you have found frets coated with laquer on Fenders as (IIRC) they stopped using poly on their necks in 92 or 93 and only use laquer on the RI guitars. The satin stuff - which coupled with the newer US neck shape is why I won't buy one - is applied before the guitar is fretted, so I would be interested in knowing how it's getting on top of the frets.

 

 

The frets aren't coated with laquer (or whatever finish agent they're using), it's the inset portion on either edge of the fretboard. A small dab of whatever finish agent the luthier is using is placed on the edge of the fretboard where the fret is inset into the neck. Its often died to meet the fretboard as well. After it dries, it's sanded flush resulting in a neck edge as smooth as a bound neck and helps reduce the chance of fret spout due to changes in weather. There's only 2 ways to know it was done: you can't see the fret insets cleanly (or at all) along the side of the neck (good job) or you can feel a smooth yet obvious hump along the the neck at each fret (bad job).

[BG76]

I thought they had machines pressing in all their frets as well. I must be behind the times as far as what Fender is doing to build their guitars these days.

[Will Chen]

 

I thought they had machines pressing in all their frets as well. I must be behind the times as far as what Fender is doing to build their guitars these days.

 

 

Fret pressing is not fret dressing. Unless they're now using a PLEK, I believe a large portion of fret dressing is still performed by hand. And again, if you are implying Fender machine based construction eliminates the chance of error, you are again minimizing the potential for differences between a Fender and Squier as their manufacturing procedures are nearly identical.

[wagdog]

I think this is a GREAT question and this discussion brings up many points.

 

I will add myself to the list of people who THINK they sound better when then play an instrument of higher quality (regardless of brand). I will say that I THINK I sound better when I play my SRV or '74 strat then say my squier bullet strats when the reality probably is that it sounds like me regardless.

[Stymie13]

I put Texas Specials in my '92 AM STD strat which sounds a little fatter and jucier than the GFS Alnico vintage overwounds I put in my '85 Jap Squier which are more chimey. Both guitars sounded great with stock pickups IMO. I finally put the AM STD neck pickup in my 2004 Squier Tele (Indonesia) after not being satisfied with the stock neck or TexMex pickup. The Tele sounds fantastic now. Cheap guitar + decent pickup=

[BG76]

 

Fret pressing is not fret dressing. Unless they're now using a PLEK, I believe a large portion of fret dressing is still performed by hand. And again, if you are implying Fender machine based construction eliminates the chance of error, you are again minimizing the potential for differences between a Fender and Squier as their manufacturing procedures are nearly identical.

 

 

I believe that they have a human clean the slots and finish sand the board then the frets are inserted and pressed in with a machine. The edges are dressed with a large machine - the neck rests against a stop and two machines are moved up both sides of the neck to dress the frets.

 

I don't know how much better a job they could do figuring they're making 1000s of guitars a day.

[niceguy]

I'm going to do something that's kinda, sorta relevant to this topic.

 

I have a 2007 MIM strat. It was the pick o' the litter, so to speak, when I bought it. It has the stock pickups, which are dark and somewhat bland. I am going to replace the single coils with Alnico 3 pickups from a Fender Highway One strat. The bridge pickup will remain a JB.

 

As for comparison? Um, I have a USA Tele with the stock Alnico pickups. Yes, I know I'm comparing a bloody Tele to a Strat with hotter pickups, but I'm hoping to get at least some relevant comparison. Both guitars are alder (strat is 5 pieces, Tele is 2).

 

I'd been playing the MIM Strat for a year when I got the USA Tele, and holy {censored}, the Tele was just so much... clearer. I'm hoping there will be a big difference in the Strat after the pickup swap, and maybe the clarity will be similar to the Tele.

[go cat go]

My experience has been if using vintage styled underwound pups, even 2 guitars made from the same type of wood will sound slightly different played clean. Don't expect the American body to sound like angels singing though, the differences will be subtle. A nice piece of wood is a nice piece of wood regardless of brand or country of orgin. Using hotter pickups and turning up the gain will pretty much cover up any subtle differences.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thanks!

 

I never swapped the bodies out but I have swapped necks. I swapped the rosewood neck on my MIM Classic 50's for a rosewood MIM Deluxe neck. It made a huge difference in sound. The original neck sounded so much fatter. The Deluxe neck had more chime. They both didn't sound bad, just different. If just swapping the neck made such a difference, I'm sure that swapping the body will make a noticeable impact too.

[metallica_00]

 

Both bodies are assumed to be alder, maple fret boards, 6 screw tremolos on them. Of course each guitar will be representative of it's respective quality, so the neck on the American standard will obviously be higher quality then the neck on the Squire, and so on.

 

 

Well here's the thing. There's a good chance your Squier body will not be alder. And it will definitely be made of a bunch of pieces. Whereas the American Strat will probably be made of 3 pieces, perhaps 2. I have a Squier Strat which I have done some work on. I had actually done a refin and stripped down the original finish to the wood. It was awhile back, but I can remember that it was a bunch of pieces! After gutting the electronics and putting in a set of Tex Mex pickups, Alpha full size pots, and Switchcraft jacks and switches, it definitely did sound better. Nicer than a MIM I'd say. Compared to my US G&L Legacy, definitely not.

 

One of the big things I hear when it is plugged or unplugged is that you get a lot of the fundamental. It is actually a very loud guitar acoustically, but not a very complex sounding one. I think the "listen for acoustic volume" myth is bull{censored}, you should listen for the acoustic timbre. Even good pickups cannot sense overtones that are not there to begin with.

 

Of course, it doesn't play very well, cannot fully intonate (saddles maxed out), and could pretty badly use a new bridge, nut, and tuners (which could potentially improve the sound some more). So there are a host of issues beyond sound alone.

[BG76]

I agree Metallica. The best sounding guitars that I have actually have good balance, resonance and seperation unplugged.