The Genius of Miles Davis: Explained!

[Mike McLenison]

Larry understands jazz....

[rasputin1963]

Didn't Miles explain his inner technique by saying something like this:

 

"Think of the note that comes intuitively; then play something else."

 

 

?

[Magpel]

It's funny, I'm a huge Bill Evans fans, and hell, a pretty big Wynton Kelly fan for that matter, and Miles is Miles, and Coltrane is Coltrane, but when I listen to Kind of Blue-era Miles, the guy who always makes my heart sing is Cannoball Fu*#ing Adderly.

[fmw]

It is a nice read. I've been in heavy metal bands, New Wave bands, Power Pop bands, country bands, Top 40 bands, Funk bands and have kind of stuck with 'Classic Rock' inthe last decade or so.. I've read about Miles/Parker and all these cats. Actually, have a jazz singer friend who was nominated for a Grammy several times but I could NEVER understand 'jazz.' I just don't 'get it.' To me, it sounds like: 'How many notes can you squeeze into a 3 chord song.' Don't get crazy on me, jazz folks, but I just don't 'get it.' I kind of wish I did. The ONLY jazz I've ever really liked was my old Leon Russell 'Stop All That Jazz' album. I wonder what makes a person 'get it' and get passionate about a certain style of music but doesn't understand others?

 

 

It is just a matter of taste. Nothing more than that. I love jazz and have since the 1950's. I can't listen to heavy metal. Can't stand it. You like one thing. I like something else. No more complicated than that.

 

The original jazz was the music they played and still play in New Orleans that some people refer to as Dixieland. Jazz has influenced every genre of American music including every one in your list of bands. As an example is Santana a Latin player or a rock player or a jazz player. I think you would say all of the above. Over the years jazz has evolved to be sure but it still places an emphasis on improvisation. Miles Davis was an example of an outstanding improvisational musician and that's why he is revered by the jazz crowd. Before him, Louis Armstrong was revered as an outstanding improvisational musician on trumpet and after him people like Sandoval or Marsalis might enjoy that title. Jazz would be alive, well and happy if Davis had never picked up a trumpet but most of us are glad that he did.

[Billster]

Cannoball Fu*#ing Adderly .

 

 

I think Cannonball is one of the overlooked greats. His stuff with Joe Zawinul is absolutely heart wrenching.

[AndyLoud]

If you are interested, get Kind of Blue. Put it in your car player, and play it while you drive. Don't even pay attention at first. Just play it and drive to work, and back home again. Repeat without thinking. Soon my friend, more than likely you'll say, "Cool man...".

 

 

I still remember the first time I heard any of Kind of Blue. I was on the phone to my boss, and he was playing it in the background during the phonecall. It wasnt long before I stopped paying attention to what was being said, and got caught up in listening to it!

[rasputin1963]

Yes, Adderley is fantastic. His solos are so gentlemanly and tasteful and clever.

[Hard Truth]

Miles' greatest contribution to music is reminding us that more is less and less is more. In other words, he valued the role of silence in musc.

 

Can you imagine anyone else having Chick Corea, Joe Zawinal, Keith Jarret and John Mclaughlin in a band at the same time, and not letting it turn into a competition to see who can play the fastest and flashiest? Instead the music they made together showed remarkable restraint and left plenty of space for the notes to breath and the solos to mean something.

[Music Calgary]

For a guy with a big ego he sure didn't have any.

 

HAW!!! That is the single most inaccurate thing I have ever read about Miles. He was a prick. I asked Mike Stern that in person once during a set break, "Was Miles really as much of a prick as everyone says?" and he just laughed and looked down. Didn't say no. Hee. Miles was the one who nicknamed him "Fat Time" (ergo song of same name) because he was a little chubby. Miles would push your buttons, he was a button pusher -- and a true egotist in the purest sense of the word. It was part of his genius. You need a HUGE ego to pull off what he did. And Miles certainly did not lack in that department... He was many things but "without ego" was not amongst them.

 

Didn't Miles explain his inner technique by saying something like this: "Think of the note that comes intuitively; then play something else."

 

Miles was constantly shovelling sophistry in the minds of anyone who would swallow it. That was Miles the man, not Miles the musician. Then he'd laugh about it later with friends. Hee.

 

Anyhow It's a non-statement, i.e. whatever note you end up playing is "the note that came intuitively", whether it's the second or fifth one you thought of.

It's funny, I'm a huge Bill Evans fans, and hell, a pretty big Wynton Kelly fan for that matter, and Miles is Miles, and Coltrane is Coltrane, but when I listen to Kind of Blue-era Miles, the guy who always makes my heart sing is Cannoball Fu*#ing Adderly.

 

Amen brother.

Can you imagine anyone else having Chick Corea, Joe Zawinal, Keith Jarret and John Mclaughlin in a band at the same time, and not letting it turn into a competition to see who can play the fastest and flashiest?

 

True enough. Bandleading is a whole different game and I would tend to agree that Miles was pure genius in that regard. One of the great bandleaders of that time for sure. Absolutely brilliant. Several of my all-time faves came through his band, Scofield, Stern, Marcus...

[nat whilk II]

Lots of people have a problem finding an entry-point into jazz, coming from some other musical tradition/genre, etc.

Personally, I don't like "not getting" any kind of music - it's a "splinter in the brain" sort of thing, and I return to music I don't get over and over until I come to some sort of terms with it.

That doesn't mean convincing myself that I like something that before I had no taste for. A big distinction between "taste for" and "getting" music in my way of thinking. It might take me a long time to get something, but it still won't find it's way into my playlists. What I will do is, once I "get" it to some extent, I do respect the music more, and it has a chance to get under my skin, where before it had no chance.

I grew up on 60s-70s stuff, pretty typical Top 40 radio-listening kid from those old days, and I had a big resistance to jazz -it seemed such a pose, the whole "cool" thing, the whole "intellectual and sophisticated" thing.

There was a natural segue for a lot of rock types into jazz, 'tho, that took place when fusion was new and not as defined as it later became. ELP fans could find their way into Return To Forever without too much trouble. Hendrix fans could find their way into Jeff Beck's Wired. Weather Report had a pretty wide appeal with Heavy Weather. That was the door that got me a bit more into jazz when the classic 70s genre started getting a little moldy.

But that phase ran out after a while, and in the long run, what really got me permanently into jazz was jazz drumming and the blues. That's the really natural segue - from the blues to jazz. And the drumming - almost any 60s-70s rock fan can hardly NOT apppreciate jazz drumming, even if the soloing puts you in a coma.

It's a shame that the term "jazz" connotes be-bop almost exclusively to most people's minds, when there is so much more. Be-bop is only one phase of jazz. It may be the big dog, but it's not everything. My parents were WWII vintage, loved Big Band, but hated be-bop because of "all those notes". Be-bop left a lot of Big Band and Pop jazz listeners behind. In a way, it was kind of a shame, in spite of how fantastic so much be-bop is. But from the gitgo, be-bop has never been for everyone.

If I had to capsulize what "jazz" means to me - when something is "jazzy" - I think of it as basically a way to fascinate the listener through a sort of musical sleight of hand. In be-bop particularly, there is a show-off element, like there is in basketball. In a sense, the point is not really to score, to get the ball in the hoop or the phrase to the tonic - the point is to get there in style. And to charm those who "get it", and to laugh a little wickedly at those who don't "get it" - whose heads are just left spinning.

Yes, there is a LOT of egoism in jazz.

nat whilk ii

[Billster]

HAW!!! That is the single most inaccurate thing I have ever read about Miles. He was a prick. I asked Mike Stern that in person once during a set break, "Was Miles really as much of a prick as everyone says?" and he just laughed and looked down. Didn't say no. Hee. Miles was the one who nicknamed him "Fat Time" (ergo song of same name) because he was a little chubby. Miles would push your buttons, he was a button pusher -- and a true egotist in the purest sense of the word. It was part of his genius. You need a HUGE ego to pull off what he did. And Miles certainly did not lack in that department... He was many things but "without ego" was not amongst them. Miles was constantly shovelling sophistry in the minds of anyone who would swallow it. That was Miles the man, not Miles the musician.

Yeah, when he stopped talking and started playing, the ego disappeared. But as they say, it ain't bragging if you can back it up.

[Music Calgary]

when he stopped talking and started playing, the ego disappeared.

Not at all. Quite the opposite. It takes a HUGE ego to play like that.

[Billster]

Not at all. Quite the opposite. It takes a HUGE ego to play like that.

What I mean is that the music itself is ego-free. His playing is not all about Miles, it's all about the tune, the melody, the interaction with the band...

[Lee Knight]

HAW!!! That is the single most inaccurate thing I have ever read about Miles. He was a prick.

 

 

 

In response to my statement "For a guy with a big ego he sure didn't have any."

 

Now come on. Surely you know what I meant by that. Of course, Miles was known for his ego. But in the music he sure had the ability to lose it and let the music go where it needed to go. OK, you say it takes a big ego to play like that. Fine, I'm not going to disagree with you. It's a valid point. And so is mine. Let's not play semantic one-ups-manship.

 

This is the 2nd time you've completely misinterpreted a statement of mine and jumped all over me. In the past 2 days. Please, take the time to try and understand the intent of a statement before you hammer back.

[Music Calgary]

In response to my statement "For a guy with a big ego he sure didn't have any." Now come on. Surely you know what I meant by that. Of course, Miles was known for his ego. But in the music he sure had the ability to lose it and let the music go where it needed to go. OK, you say it takes a big ego to play like that. Fine, I'm not going to disagree with you. It's a valid point. And so is mine. Let's not play semantic one-ups-manship. This is the 2nd time you've completely misinterpreted a statement of mine and jumped all over me. In the past 2 days. Please, take the time to try and understand the intent of a statement before you hammer back.

 

Lee, I disagree. Call that "hammering" if you like, that seems a bit dramatic but whatever floats your boat...

 

I have never seen any evidence to suggest his ego was ever anything other than utterly massive, 24/7/365. I think you are projecting something that just wasn't there. Sorry.

 

I just showed your comment to one of the hottest sax players in our region who happens to be sitting here for coffee, and asked what he thinks. He knows more about Miles and his music than anyone I've ever met, and he's in complete disbelief that there are musicians in online forums claiming Miles played without ego. Take that for whatever you want. Cheers.

[Lee Knight]

OK. But what I'm trying to point out is that Mile's style is one of give and take. I'm not talking about off stage. I'm not talking about his attitude onstage. I'm talking about his interaction with other players in the music. And in that... I hear a player who steps back and let's others take their turn for the betterment of the music.

If you want to get trapped in the semantics, so be it. I believe you think I'm saying something other than what I am. My statement, "For a guy with a big ego, he doesn't have any", while perhaps provocative to make a point, shouldn't be taken literally.

Did you believe my statement to mean, "Miles Davis didn't have a big ego"? If you got that from my statement, either my ability to make a point is waning, or you're missing it.

I'm willing to concede that I'm at fault here.

So, for the record, Miles played with grace, and gave his fellow musicians the room to play as well. I'll the the E word out of it so you might see my point.

[Music Calgary]

 

OK. But what I'm trying to point out is that Miles style is one of give and take.

 

 

I've seen no evidence of Miles being fond of compromise. Honestly. Quite the opposite.

 

I'm not sure what you expected him to do, hire Scofield and then play overtop all his solos?

 

Everything I've read/seen/heard seem to indicate he was a total bastard almost all of the time. The reasons people loved playing for him were all musical, and to be there they had to overlook a lot of stuff many people wouldn't. The guy was an utter prick by most accounts.

 

"Miles was one of those guys who would punch you in the shoulder as hard as he could just to see what you would do..."

- Sonny Sharrock

[Billster]

The reasons people loved playing for him were all musical

That's what Lee and I are getting at! The music that Miles directed was far beyond ego, and anything else that he did. Miles didn't do ego-trip stuff that {censored}ed up the music. LOTS of guys do that, but Miles didn't.

Maybe part of what he did offstage was a method of creating the environment that let the music could happen the way it did?

[Music Calgary]

That's what Lee and I are getting at! The music that Miles directed was far beyond ego, and anything else that he did. Miles didn't do ego-trip stuff that {censored}ed up the music. LOTS of guys do that, but Miles didn't. Maybe part of what he did offstage was a method of creating the environment that let the music could happen the way it did?

 

Naw. You're just attempting to shoehorn what he was into what you wish he was...

 

Miles had a MASSIVE EGO on stage and off stage. It was this very ego that allowed him to do what he did and play the things he played. Not much to it other than that.

[Billster]

If Miles was ego-tripping in his music, why did he have Coltrane and Charlie Parker in the same band! Who else would or could have allowed that?

[Music Calgary]

If Miles was ego-tripping in his music, why did he have Coltrane and Charlie Parker in the same band!

 

OK let's make sure I have this straight...

 

Your question is "Why did he have Coltane and Parker in his band?"

 

And by asking that question you mean to conclude/deduce that Miles somehow had no ego, or played with no ego -- contrary to most reports of those who worked with him.

 

I'm sorry but I just don't see any relationship whatsoever between the question and the conclusion. But here goes anyhow...

 

He had Coltrane and Parker in his band because he liked their playing.

[nat whilk II]

From an interview with Scofield:


[scofield says, "I was"] basically a bebopper, "something of a purist." But then Miles Davis "turned me around, said I was bluesy and got me into wah-wah pedals, back-beats and heavy electronics."

His [sco's] reputation took a quantum leap in the early '80s when he became a collaborator more than a sideman for three years with Davis, who admitted to building tunes from Scofield's improvisations. Rather than feeling ripped off, Sco was flattered.

After he left the band, however, the trumpeter began to bad-mouth the guitarist in the press. He said, in effect, the Sco was too cool; he said he played behind the beat. He said it and said it and said it - though implying it was not really Sco's fault, poor boy. He's white.

"That's just Miles being Miles," Scofield said, with a sigh of understanding for a flawed hero. I loved him. It was kind of sad, he wanted a hit so badly, it made him bitter. But he can't do anything but play great, except---" He hesitated and shrugged: "Except when he doesn't play great.

"It's weird. Even on an off day, he makes everything come into focus. Miles is into all sorts of power trips but whenever he put his horn to his mouth that's what counted. He made music happen. It gave me faith in humanity."

nat whilk ii

[jerry_picker]

I'm sorry, but I just can't buy into these "genius" labels. It's too exclusionary and myth-driven. Considering someone the "ultimate" or "the genius" is absurd---and irresponsible history-making.

 

Listen to the Miles Davis Quintet/Sextet '55-'58 and report back.

[pop tarts]

how does one play with ego?

[Billster]

reputation took a quantum leap in the early '80s when he became a collaborator more than a sideman for three years with Davis, who admitted to building tunes from Scofield's improvisations. Rather than feeling ripped off, Sco was flattered. After he left the band, however, the trumpeter began to bad-mouth the guitarist in the press. He said, in effect, the Sco was too cool; he said he played behind the beat. He said it and said it and said it - though implying it was not really Sco's fault, poor boy. He's white. "That's just Miles being Miles," Scofield said, with a sigh of understanding for a flawed hero. I loved him. It was kind of sad, he wanted a hit so badly, it made him bitter. But he can't do anything but play great, except---" He hesitated and shrugged: "Except when he doesn't play great. "It's weird. Even on an off day, he makes everything come into focus. Miles is into all sorts of power trips but whenever he put his horn to his mouth that's what counted. He made music happen. It gave me faith in humanity." nat whilk ii

 

 

That sums it up, and I think you would find evidence of almost any other musicians that worked with Miles getting to the same statement.