Announcement
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Rickenbacker 360/12 String Pattern - "Reverse" or "Standard"?

Collapse
X
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Rickenbacker 360/12 String Pattern - "Reverse" or "Standard"?

    Hi Folks,

    I've been trying to get the perfect electric 12 string and I've tried a few things. A Fender Electric XII was too nasaly for my taste, the Danelectro 12 sounds GREAT but feels like a cheap toy. The Rickenbacker 360/12 is SO close to what I want but the 12-string sound is too subtle, because of the reverse string pattern.

    As you know, rick's are "reverse" strung, so the fat string is first, and the octave string is second, meaning when you pick a string, you're mostly hearing the fat string, and not hearing the two strings together unless you stroke up with your pick. I'm not so into this for the style I'm going for.

    My 360/12 already has a 12-saddle bridge, so I can pretty easily swap the saddles around on each string. However, I think I would need to have a new nut made.

    Has anyone tried this? How does it sound on a Rick? Does it work or is there something else about them that makes it play or sound weird if you change the string pattern back to "standard?"

    Thanks!

  • #2
    I love the Ricky 12 string reverse sound.

    You could take off the bridge cover and turn around each individual saddle. It might work, at least to give it a try.

    You could talk to John Hall, but he won't sell you anything, but maybe he would after you spoke to him.

    Pick of the Ricks, same deal. Talk to them



    _____________________________________
    Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.

    Join Date: Aug 2001
    Location: N. Adams, MA USA
    Posts as of Jan 10th 2013: 82,617

    Comment


    • #3
      Use a Compressor and Treble boost to get that Byrds 60"s sound.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by jtr654 View Post
        Use a Compressor and Treble boost to get that Byrds 60"s sound.
        That's what I said to him on one of his other threads.

        There's also jangleboxes.

        _____________________________________
        Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.

        Join Date: Aug 2001
        Location: N. Adams, MA USA
        Posts as of Jan 10th 2013: 82,617

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jtr654 View Post
          Use a Compressor and Treble boost to get that Byrds 60"s sound.
          This.

          I have a late 1990s Danelectro DC-12 (which, blue sparkly formica aside, doesn't feel at all like a cheap toy to me... YMMV) and I run that into a GGG Vox V806 clone I put together, and then that into a modded DynaComp, and then into my AC15. Instant jangle. Byrds, Beatles, Petty - it's all in there.
          **********

          "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
          - George Carlin

          "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
          - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

          "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
          - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

          Comment


          • #6
            Oh I am using compression! Have been since I started playing the Dano a year ago. It's required for all electric 12 strings.

            I am specifically talking about the stringing pattern. If you downstroke single notes on the three bottom strings you don't hear the octave at all, if you do it on the G, you only subtly hear the octave string. The B and E are unisons of course so there's no problem on those.

            Combine that with the fact that the Rick-- even with a toaster pickup-- is not as chimey or bright as a Dano lipstick pickup, just leaves the Rick sounding kinda dead compared to the Danelectro. I think reversing the string pattern will help a lot but want to know how complicated it is or whether there are other things it messes up.

            I found this discussion somewhat helpful - http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/vi....php?f=2&t=312 seems like it's really just a matter of taste.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by akpasta View Post
              Oh I am using compression! Have been since I started playing the Dano a year ago. It's required for all electric 12 strings.

              I am specifically talking about the stringing pattern. If you downstroke single notes on the three bottom strings you don't hear the octave at all, if you do it on the G, you only subtly hear the octave string. The B and E are unisons of course so there's no problem on those.

              Combine that with the fact that the Rick-- even with a toaster pickup-- is not as chimey or bright as a Dano lipstick pickup, just leaves the Rick sounding kinda dead compared to the Danelectro. I think reversing the string pattern will help a lot but want to know how complicated it is or whether there are other things it messes up.

              I found this discussion somewhat helpful - http://www.rickenbacker.com/forum/vi....php?f=2&t=312 seems like it's really just a matter of taste.

              George Harrison's 1963 360/12 was the first Rickenbacker 12-string to have the flipped stringing order - and I've never had any problem with hearing the octave strings in the 12 string electric parts on Beatles records... but that aside, if you want to flip the string order so you strike the octave strings first with a downstroke of the pick, the main things you'll need to do is change the bridge saddle positions (for the intonation) and the nut will need to be replaced. Nothing else should need to be done outside of a basic setup after you finish those other two mods.

              Then get yourself a treble booster. Your Ric will be plenty bright enough between the toasters, the compression and the treble boost. I use that same pedal combination sometimes for six-string jangle parts with my Ric 610, which has high gain pickups, which are less bright than the toasters, and I can get it as bright as I want, no problem.

              **********

              "Look at it this way: think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of 'em are stupider than that."
              - George Carlin

              "It shouldn't be expected that people are necessarily doing what they appear to be doing on records."
              - Sir George Martin, All You Need Is Ears

              "The music business will be revitalized by musicians, not the labels or Live Nation. When the musicians decide to put music first, instead of money, the public will flock to the fruits and the scene will be healthy again."
              - Bob Lefsetz, The Lefsetz Letter

              Comment


              • #8
                Are you going for live or recording?

                For recording you might want to consider a separate guitar in Nashville tuning and then double the parts. This gives a better 12 sound because it helps mitigate the phase cancellation that happens with a 12.

                For live work a buddy uses a Fender VG Stratocaster which has an impressive 12 string setting - certainly good enough for rock and roll.

                One of the common complaints with Ric 12s is the narrow nut makes them hard to play.

                I have a Danelectro 12 and I don't find it a toy at all. I am a big fan of Nathan Daniels and his stripped down gear designs that still work great today!
                --------------------------------
                www.VerneAndru.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by akpasta View Post

                  I am specifically talking ab out the stringing pattern. If you downstroke single notes on the three bottom strings you don't hear the octave at all, if you do it on the G, you only subtly hear the octave string. The B and E are unisons of course so there's no problem on those.

                  Combine that with the fact that the Rick-- even with a toaster pickup-- is not as chimey or bright as a Dano lipstick pickup, just leaves the Rick sounding kinda dead compared to the Danelectro. I think reversing the string pattern will help a lot but want to know how complicated it is or whether there are other things it messes up.
                  Honestly you should be able to flip the courses enough to see if you like the sound - the action and intonation will be terrible but the strings should sit well enough in the nut slots to play it and see. That is way almost every other 12 string is strung - the octaves are in the even positions so they are hit first (and usually hardest) by your pick downstroke. However most people feel that the sound of a Rick does result from the way it is strung.

                  You'll have to sacrifice a set of strings - buy some cheap ones, string it with the octaves on 6, 8, 10 and 12 and if you like it, then make a nut, do the setup and (since you now know how to intonate it) do that.

                  By the way, there are several other ways to string a 12 - some people put a unison pair of G strings on it, Ledbelly put a double octave on the 12th. Also some folks have learned to pick one string of the course when needed and Leo Kottke alternates picking up or down on a course to get a different sound.

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X