Members OneEng Posted October 1, 2014 Members Share Posted October 1, 2014 Interesting points from the video: * X18 as previously described (~ $800.00) * X-Air app:**** Android, PC and iOS support**** Unlimited DCA's**** Fully customizable layers**** Editing of channel strip while still maintaining fader view**** Swipe to scroll across faders * XR18 stage box format version of the X18 * XR16**** stage box format**** 8 mic/line inputs on XLR combo jacks with X32 "Midas inspired" preamps**** 8 1/4" line inputs**** 4 aux out (vs 6 in X/XR18)**** Only 2 track recording to USB stick (no 18x18 recording interface)**** ~$500.00**** No ultranet (no P16 monitoring system support) * XR12**** Stage box format**** 4 mic/line inputs on XLR combo jacks**** 8 1/4" line inputs**** 2 1/4" aux outs**** ~$300.00 My take: The X18 is going to finally put a good competitor in the market against the DL1608. The UI improvement is really nice (you can download an early version on the iPad). XR18 .... eh. Limited surprise here.XR16 .... This thing is good enough to run many a small band on. Very interesting combination at a really good price.XR12 ..... Wow. While I love my little ZED 10Fx .... wow. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 1, 2014 Members Share Posted October 1, 2014 8 mic inputs does not a band mixer make... in general anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted October 1, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 1, 2014 8 mic inputs does not a band mixer make... in general anyway. Most bar bands in small clubs don't mic the drums .... or if they do, only the kick and overheads for the toms. 3 vocals, 2 guitars, bass, kick, overhead ... 8. If you DI the bass, you can get another overhead. It is enough for a minimalist setup, but not much more. I agree, it isn't enough for anyone doing a serious bar gig. The XR12 on the other hand is IDEAL IMHO for solo, duo, Karaoke gigs. I think they are going to sell a gozillion of these things .... maybe even one to me In a pinch, I could put my 3 vocals, and one guitar cab into mic preamps, and then put my Kemper into a pair of 1/4" and the 5 outputs from the vDrums into 1/4" inputs. I could use the 2 aux outputs to feed my stereo IEM mix. I would lose the additional 4 mono mixes we each have, but still.... what a great little backup mixer.... especially for only $300.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Art Flood Posted October 1, 2014 Members Share Posted October 1, 2014 I've not been a fan of the x32 because I've no need for a physical mixer but the XR18 stage box has got my attention. Lots of good gear about to be released! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dedmeet Posted October 1, 2014 Members Share Posted October 1, 2014 Hmm, gonna have to choose between the XR18 and XR16. I think the XR18, some wireless, and a power amp or two would be a dandy little portable PA for anything I typically do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nchangin Posted October 1, 2014 Members Share Posted October 1, 2014 Yes pretty slick. I don't know how analog mixers will ever compete at the middle to lower level of sound production. This would a more professional application for a many many uses it appears. However, the ability for users to really dork stuff up exists. OneEng our resident x32 expert: have a question, Do you know if you can stream music wirelessly from the workstation to the mixer? (whatever interface is being used to control the mixer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted October 1, 2014 Members Share Posted October 1, 2014 People certainly are starting to "think" along the lines of their phones and tablets. I suspect that in the not too distant future, someone that would have been clueless with a hands on analogue mixer, might actually be able to operate a digital mixer, simply because the architecture and platform styles will be similar to their non PA apps. Saving money on the nuts and bolts of a mixer and then passing on those savings is a great idea if you can get there first or do it best. Mackie tried, but IMHO the savings weren't enough and it was a one device (iPad/iPhone) deal. Looks like Behringer might be the clear winner - as much as it pains me to say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted October 1, 2014 Members Share Posted October 1, 2014 I can't understand the need for all the "digital features" at the 4x mic input level. I have my 10fx for that sort of gig. These things look really interesting though. As discussed in another thread I'm looking at buying a qu24 but the whole idea of obsolescence worries me. At this stage as a dedicated engineer I think showing up without a full console would be a bad look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted October 1, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 1, 2014 Yes pretty slick. I don't know how analog mixers will ever compete at the middle to lower level of sound production. This would a more professional application for a many many uses it appears. However, the ability for users to really dork stuff up exists. OneEng our resident x32 expert: have a question, Do you know if you can stream music wirelessly from the workstation to the mixer? (whatever interface is being used to control the mixer) Hi nchangin, Yep. People are doing it with the apple airport express Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted October 1, 2014 Author Members Share Posted October 1, 2014 I can't understand the need for all the "digital features" at the 4x mic input level. I have my 10fx for that sort of gig. These things look really interesting though. As discussed in another thread I'm looking at buying a qu24 but the whole idea of obsolescence worries me. At this stage as a dedicated engineer I think showing up without a full console would be a bad look. I also have my 10fx for that kind of thing Having said that, for the same money, I would much rather have an XR12 which has more inputs, and wireless control. The EFX in the X32 line are also much nicer than in the ZED and the channel eq is way more powerful. My ZED is currently my "Plan B" if my X32 Rack fails me. I could limp along with it, but the XR12 would give me 90% of the capability of the X32 Rack for only $300.00. That is just silly good for that money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted October 2, 2014 Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 I gotta say that's pretty cool, I could see a situation where the xr18 sits in an amp rack (yes I still use amps!) hard wired along with a rack drawer for gack. Maybe a couple channels of wireless mics. I'm considering getting the mackie dl1608 and this would be a good solution. Even if I don't get either there will still be plenty of new iPad mixing options coming out in the next few years. Maybe I'll wait till the technology matures. What's the shelf life on an x18? iPads last about 4 years? I guess it's how long the app lasts with whatever OS and platform. Question for the forum, how old is your main mixer? Or the oldest one you'd put in a mission critical gig? I'm retiring some classic 01v's that are 16yrs old. And I've got a spirit folio that's got to be 20yrs old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted October 2, 2014 Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 A mixer with a 5yr life span seems like pissing money away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Art Flood Posted October 2, 2014 Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 A mixer with a 5yr life span seems like pissing money away Good point and I guess it is like pissing money away - but I suspect all these sub $1000 mixers are going to be disposable items. Especially given how often new products come out with even more bells and whistles. Aren't new cars pretty much in the same bracket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 2, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Good point and I guess it is like pissing money away - but I suspect all these sub $1000 mixers are going to be disposable items. Especially given how often new products come out with even more bells and whistles. Aren't new cars pretty much in the same bracket? Interesting point. I think perhaps anything manufactured and sold is in the same bracket..."build a better mousetrap...." applies to spaceships, mixers, phones and cars pretty equally. If someone comes up with something that people want, they'll flock to it. The "old" something still works, does what *it* was supposed to do, but loses value more quickly if it's no longer "state of the art" or at least "current". Look at car ads...nothing about horsepower, cornering ability, or ABS brakes....that stuff is just expected to be great. Today's car ads are all about the car driving for you (some of the ads are promoting inattentiveness....greaaat) and the big display prominently positioned mid-dash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dedmeet Posted October 2, 2014 Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 Oddly, something that seems to be unique to Behringer in the small digital mixer category is support for PC and Android based software and not just iOS devices (iPad, iPhone, etc.). PC support pretty much guarantees a long succession of control options even if Apple capriciously changes their software or hardware dramatically. Mackie got a hard lesson on this when Apple iPad changed size and connector mid-stream with little warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sibyrnes Posted October 2, 2014 Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 Question for the forum' date=' how old is your main mixer? Or the oldest one you'd put in a mission critical gig? I'm retiring some classic 01v's that are 16yrs old. And I've got a spirit folio that's got to be 20yrs old.[/quote'] I have an Allen and Heath GL2 that I bought new in 1995. It still gets some work every once in a while. I will be using it this weekend for DJ/announcer set up. Power will be supplied by a questionable generator, so the digital stuff stays home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 2, 2014 Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 I can't understand the need for all the "digital features" at the 4x mic input level. I have my 10fx for that sort of gig. These things look really interesting though. As discussed in another thread I'm looking at buying a qu24 but the whole idea of obsolescence worries me. At this stage as a dedicated engineer I think showing up without a full console would be a bad look. Early obsolescence is always a concern with anything digital. But it will be any more obsolete than the old analog mixers these things are replacing? If it's a good mixer today, it will still be a good mixer 20 years from now, right? I've got a 15 year old Yamaha Motif workstation keyboard. Yamaha has upgraded the line 4 times since then. The newer ones do things better, faster and cheaper than my old board does. But it still works great for me, so I've got no need to replace it yet. It seems to me that integrating a tablet actually makes the mixer less disposable as many/most people upgrade their mobile devices every couple of years for other reasons anyway. But what "digital features" are going to come down the pike that will make these mixers so obsolete in a few years? If someone who buys one of these small digital mixers and they can't get 10 years of use out of it, then they wouldn't be able to get 10 years out of a small analog mixer either. Clearly, this technology is where everything is headed. Small cheap digital mixers that connect to mobile devices people already own makes perfect sense. And they likely are only going to get cheaper as time goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 2, 2014 Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 A mixer with a 5yr life span seems like pissing money away Why would it necessarily have a five year life span? If it does what I need for it to do today, why wouldn't it still be able do the same thing 10 years from now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 2, 2014 Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 Power will be supplied by a questionable generator, so the digital stuff stays home! A UPS is pretty much standard equipment with digital stuff, I think. I have one for all my keys and we use another one on the FOH equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted October 2, 2014 CMS Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Why would it necessarily have a five year life span? If it does what I need for it to do today, why wouldn't it still be able do the same thing 10 years from now? Because the iPad or other tablet interface isn't supported that long, nor will its battery last or be easily/economically replaceable. Then the OS isn't supported after a few years, and in many cases can no longer be obtained (back when we had that stuff on disks this wasn't a problem) let alone updated. The I/O devices will no doubt change in that time as well. So.....obsolete... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted October 2, 2014 Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 UPS - I wouldn't trust one to get rid of poor-generator artifacts unless it was listed as an "online UPS". This means that the UPS is constantly generating its own AC waveform from the DC bus. Traditional (and cheap) UPSes do not generate AC until the power has actually cut out or at least reaches a certain low threshold. Quality of the waveform is generally not taken into account. Many UPSes which do voltage correction do so by putting the incoming waveform through a transformer and using relays to select which output (secondary) tap is in use. This lets them step up/down out-of-spec power to the correct voltage without generating AC. But it leaves a poor waveform (mostly) intact. If there are any Hammond players reading this who interested in exploring VFDs to regulate synchronous motor speed when playing on generator power, be sure to PM me. I'm hoping to do some playing that area come summer 2015. Would be nice to compare notes. Wes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 2, 2014 Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 Why would it necessarily have a five year life span? If it does what I need for it to do today, why wouldn't it still be able do the same thing 10 years from now? Because much of the under the hood infrastructure is not designed for long service life. It's the nature of the small digital device platform. How many of you folks are using a cell phone, pad, or notebook that's more than 5 years old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted October 2, 2014 Members Share Posted October 2, 2014 Because much of the under the hood infrastructure is not designed for long service life. It's the nature of the small digital device platform. How many of you folks are using a cell phone' date=' pad, or notebook that's more than 5 years old? [/quote'] This is true... But then I have my iphone on all day, I check email, Facebook etc all day, whereas even "real" semi pro guys probably only use their desks 2-3 times a week and for most of us much less. Still I know that the lifespans will be less than the past. I'm doing less work than ever (not chasing it either) and I need a desk to last >5 yrs to get ROI. This is why I'm fairly intent on avoiding Behringer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Art Flood Posted October 3, 2014 Members Share Posted October 3, 2014 This is true... But then I have my iphone on all day' date=' I check email, Facebook etc all day, whereas even "real" semi pro guys probably only use their desks 2-3 times a week and for most of us much less. Still I know that the lifespans will be less than the past. I'm doing less work than ever (not chasing it either) and I need a desk to last >5 yrs to get ROI. This is why I'm fairly intent on avoiding Behringer.[/quote'] Hi Heath, Good to have you back. I don't think redundancy will be limited to Behringer products. For example I have one of the original Prosonus 16.0.2 mixers which I loved and used regularly for about a year. Then I did one show on a mates DL1608 and I was so impressed I bought the company (well the mixer anyway). For my situation it was such a big improvement that I didn't hesitate to spend the $1300 (Australian) bucks for a new mixer. And now I am looking at the new Behringer, Presonus, etc Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted October 3, 2014 Members Share Posted October 3, 2014 Because much of the under the hood infrastructure is not designed for long service life. It's the nature of the small digital device platform. How many of you folks are using a cell phone, pad, or notebook that's more than 5 years old? Old iPhone 3's are great as personal monitor mixers when used with an X32. I'm using a older notebook to run my lighting software. Getting a lot of use/years out of them. But I think that's the point...people replace their phones and tablets and computers every few years anyway. If anything, it should make it easier for these mixers to remain LESS obsolete than would a stand-alone digital mixer. Sure, this stuff all gives out eventually. But the older analog stuff gets obsolete too. I know, I know. There are guys still using their 40-year old gear and raving about how much better it works/sounds than the newer stuff. But for the most part---that does all gets cycled out too. Will the digital stuff have a shorter life span? Sure. But it's also quite a bit cheaper in the long run. Will there always be a market for the small analog mixers? I suppose. Or maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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