Members Freeman Keller Posted September 24, 2016 Members Share Posted September 24, 2016 There have been several threads lately on headstock repair and following the advice of Dan Erlewine and my own good experiences, I have suggested epoxy as a viable adhesive for headstocks. I recently did two repairs using StewMac slow setting epoxy, one which seems to be fine, the other one failed when we tried to put strings on the guitar. I'm currently rethinking both the general use of epoxy and this particular repair, but in the mean time I didn't want anyone following what might be bad advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted September 24, 2016 Members Share Posted September 24, 2016 The only headstock repair I did was about 10 years ago and I used epoxy and it failed, BUT I did a horrible job of it so I don't think the epoxy was part of the reason. My take on it from what I've read is that instrument makers wood glue is the thing to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Malcolm Ramone Posted September 25, 2016 Members Share Posted September 25, 2016 How about a neck pocket crack? I have an Epi korina SG I need to fix one of these days. I was leaning toward gorilla glue, but open to suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted September 25, 2016 Members Share Posted September 25, 2016 If it's a crack that you can't clamp closed then I wouldn't use wood glue. Worth chucking a picture up and the gurus will help you get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted September 25, 2016 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2016 My rule of thumb has always been - hide glue for wood to wood when I can clamp it and the working time is very short. I also always try to use it if its vintage correct. I'm still learning how to use it - AR (Titebond II) for any good wood to wood joint where I can clamp it. That is 90 percent of my building - Long set epoxy ( 5 to 24 hour) if there is a lot of wood damage and I don't have to ever get it apart in the future. I thought I understood this stuff until today - Various super glues (thin, medium, gel) when I can't clamp and don't want to take it apart ever. Special uses are hairline cracks, bindings, inlay and drop filling poly finishes. I don't know any thing about gorilla glue, white carpenters glue, 5 minute epoxy. I'll report back as I work with the epoxy problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrbrown49 Posted September 25, 2016 Members Share Posted September 25, 2016 Are you sure you got the mix ratio right and mixed it thoroughly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted September 25, 2016 Members Share Posted September 25, 2016 The few headstock repairs I have done have been with carpenter's glue. They were clean breaks and the pieces were not damaged (most of them remained attached) so they were easy to fit together and clamp. On some I would use a syringe to get some warmed up glue deep into the break. Once a well known guitarist brought me his ES-175 with the classic Gibson headstone break and I sat on it for a couple of weeks until I felt brave enough to do the work. Late one night after returning home from a gig it just seemed like the right time. I was confident, relaxed and methodical and I felt good about the work. I got nervous about it again when I gave it back to him but several weeks later he introduced me to his wife as the guy who fixed his guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 25, 2016 Members Share Posted September 25, 2016 That's what I'd question too. I've used the stuff that comes from two tubes and either gotten the mix wrong or the stuff just didn't work for me. I switched to using the 5 minute epoxy that squeezes from a hypo in the right ratio and cures properly if I mix it well. The 5 minute stuff may not be as strong, and you don't have a long time to work with it but I've never had any failures, and some had some pretty big chunks missing. Cure time is important too. I always wait several weeks till that glue is rock hard. I usually leave some glue on a piece of paper from the mix so I can judge its strength. It may remain flexible for quite awhile. When I can fold the paper and the glue cracks and chips off then I know its still going to take time for the glue in that joint to harden the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted September 25, 2016 Members Share Posted September 25, 2016 ^^^ I think that's the key. A clean break works with wood glue and it may have something to do with the angle of the grain and hardness of the wood and weather the break is air tight when clamping. If there's allot of cracked wood fibers epoxy seems to do a better job because it can fill in around those fibers and fill gaps. You also have to remember the place where the break occurs is usually where the wood is its weakest. The crack may occur with the grain, between the hard rings of a tree where the wood spongy pulp is softest. There may be additional layers just as soft or the glue simply didn't penetrate the wood enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted September 25, 2016 Members Share Posted September 25, 2016 Thanks for posting Freeman. As WRGKMC has posted, it seems qualitatively that clean breaks for wood glue and cracked fibers for epoxy. That said, could Gibson please make some manufacturing changes FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Quarter Posted September 25, 2016 Members Share Posted September 25, 2016 Epoxy failures can be caused by a few things. A couple of the more common issues are improper mixing, ratio of resin to hardener, and over clamping that squeezes all the glue out. A little factoid, if you are going to mess up the A to B mixing ratio, you are better off being light on the hardener. Too much hardener can actually make the cured resin weaker and softer. My new favorite epoxy for wood is Smith's All Wood / Oak and Teak Epoxy http://www.lmii.com/products/finishing/adhesives/smith-oak-and-teak-epoxy It really is very different than the hardware store quick set stuff. I first got it to use on a cocobolo project which is some of the toughest wood to glue and was amazed at the result. I've since used it on a lot of other woods with great results and will continue to have it on the shelf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted September 25, 2016 Author Members Share Posted September 25, 2016 Thank you Tom. The epoxy seemed to harden fine in the mixing cup but not in the joint - its kind of soft and I can scrape it off of the wood with small dental tools. Good tip on too much hardner - thats kind of what it sounds like (I just squeeze out two equal lines but I know that some people actually weigh the ingredients on a gram scale). Also good tip on the LMII product - I've been reviewing a lot of different epoxies (West, System 3, RBC) but hadn't settled on anything. I've used Zpoxy as a pore fill on koa but not for repairs. I'm meeting with owner next week but my plan is to reglue it with either fresh epoxy or AR (if I can get it cleaned enough), then put a back strap on it., I might add some CF splines as long as I'm going thru all that work. The back strap will go on with either AR or HHG. I'll post pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knnr Posted September 26, 2016 Members Share Posted September 26, 2016 Someone who sells guitars for a living recommends Elmer's Carpenter's wood glue for guitar repairs. He said that epoxy will creep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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