BAD EXPERIENCE DOING MONITORS FROM FOH...

[CHIP ROBERTS]

This past weekend I had a bad experience doing monitors from FOH. I was mixing the band from a balcony in a large ballroom. I usualy come from FOH and check with everyone to see if their monitor mix is OK, but this time my leg was killing me (a bad previous injury had flared up) and I just did not want to tackle all the steps down to the stage. Plus I was watching very closely, and never had any indication that anything was wrong.

 

So, after the band finished, the keyboard player / singer made his up to me to let me know he had a very frustrating night night with his monitor mix. The balcony I mixed from is pretty far away and it's just too hard to see if anyone is trying to indicate that they're having a problem. Plus, because of the lighting, they can't see me at all. So that makes things worse.

 

So my question is - what kind of "signs", gestures or signals do you all use in a situation like this? It was a HIGH DOLLAR wedding reception, so he (the keyboard player) didn't just want to just shout out about the issue right in the mic. We will be there again soon, so it would be great to have some sort of agreement in place about signals we could use.

 

What do yaw think?

[monthlymixcd]

Worst case scenario... do you have a cell phone? Did the keyboard player?

[BillESC]

I'd run an intercom line from the stage to the FOH through the snake that would allow a performer to talk with you between songs to make adjustments.

[jwlussow]

We usually use radios if communications aren't easy. A set of the family use radios are pretty much dirt cheap and have more than enough power to do the job.

 

Without the radios, I look for a performer to point at the monitor and give a "thumbs up" or "thumbs down". If it isn't a volume problem they will point at the monitor and do the "hang 10" hand motion and I'll go to the stage to check it out. Under no circumstances would I like the performer to "announce" the problem.

[agedhorse]

How did sound check go?

 

Did you listen to the mixes in headphones at least?

[jkm]

never had a problem with a band saying over the pa hey jimmy a touch more

of this or that, if they be-little me or act like an ass i remind them it may get worse if they keep up the snot factor important to emphisize this before

they start playing

iv had many bands say my name in the lyrics nobody ever noticed

 

seems like you were watching closley in one sentance and another it

seems as if you could not see a thing

 

as i said earlier tell them in advance if their in need just say your name

look up and see whos asking for more....

[Phil Clark]

Simple hand jestures suffice if you can see the band. They just point at the mic then up or down and clench their fist when it is right. Or just point at the mic, then up or down, and then just shake their head when you get to the level they want. Same for anything else, point, indicate up or down, shake your head when it is ok.

 

Try to avoid signals like thumbs up meaning it is ok. That is too easy to misinterpret.

 

DON'T USE CELL PHONES!!! I have had too many times when a cell phone ends up creating noise in the PA. Particularly when using wireless rigs for guitars and in-ears.

[CHIP ROBERTS]

 

How did sound check go? Did you listen to the mixes in headphones at least?

 

 

The sound check went great.

 

Yes, I listened to the mixes in headphones.

 

The keyboard player told me something changed at one point. I DID NOT touch any gain settings and I did not touch anything that had anything to do with his aux.

[agedhorse]

By any chance was the pre-post switch pressed on one of the channel aux's?

[CHIP ROBERTS]

as i said earlier tell them in advance if their in need just say your name look up and see whos asking for more....

 

 

I was watching EXTRA close because it was harder to see them. It's a 7 peice band. It was a big stage, and I was in a balcony far away. We have:

 

drums

bass / with vocals (stage left)

keyboard / with vocals (stage left)

sax / with vocals (stage right)

trumpet / percussionist (stage right)

gal vocals / center stage

guy (well, he's sort of a guy ) vocals / center stage

 

The only way I knew something was wrong was because inbetween songs, the keyboard player actually said my name while waving his arms like he was me, trying to get a cab. The Bride and her friend were on the stage making some sort of announcement. And of course, they wouldn't hold the mic close enough and/or speak loudly enough, so I had to ride the 'ol fader.

 

So it wouldn't have been a good time to leave the console. The house engineer went down to see what was up. He came back and told me what was up and I made some adjustments. He told me things did get better, but it wasn't what it should've been.

 

We'll be back in that room soon and we'll be in the same situation at other events coming up. On a stage that big, if I happen to be watching the trumpet player to make sure he's OK, then it's real easy to miss someone's signals, stage left.

[CHIP ROBERTS]

 

By any chance was the pre-post switch pressed on one of the channel aux's?

 

 

No.

 

That's the first thing I checked after I saw him waiving his arms. I have to ride his vocals a lot, and since I didn't know exactly what was wrong I checked that pre-post thing out right away.

[Shaster]

Way back in 1979 we played a room that was super long with the mix position "miles" away from the stage. Our tech just wired a dummy mic that was only rigged to his cans/mix position monitor. He would talk to us through the monitors and we could go up to the dummy mic, pretend we were singing... and let him know how things were going - or tell jokes:)

 

This can be accomplished with just turning a mic off through the mains and stage monitors, but he found it way easier to just have a dedicated mic for that purpose.

 

BTW, I'm a little confused - you mentioned a house engineer, what was he doing?

 

Another alternative is to find a different mix position, or if there's plenty of cash, do a separate monitor mix operated from just off stage.

 

In really bad situations, as a performer, I've just made a show of fixing the monitors. Trying to make the audience feel special because "we're letting them in on a little music magic"; pulling back the wizard's curtain, so to speak. When the problem is fixed (usually very quickly because it's direct) I make a big show of thanking the tech and get the audience to applaud the techs efforts and skill - it's shameful showbiz crap, but it works.

[bigjd]

 

No. That's the first thing I checked after I saw him waiving his arms. I have to ride his vocals a lot, and since I didn't know exactly what was wrong I checked that pre-post thing out right away.

 

 

Was it the Team America Wave?:poke:

[CHIP ROBERTS]

 

Was it the Team America Wave?:poke:

 

 

 

Never saw it, so I don't know...

[Unalaska]

If you're overcompressing on vocals a lot it can really effect monitors. This is an instance where having a separate monitor console is best.

[CHIP ROBERTS]

 

If you're overcompressing on vocals a lot it can really effect monitors. This is an instance where having a separate monitor console is best.

 

 

 

Well, the ballroom just kinda had what they had. No comp/gate inserts except for the kick. No compression on the vocals. There's no monitor console. I was paid to just walk in and mix.

[dboomer]

 

DON'T USE CELL PHONES!!! I have had too many times when a cell phone ends up creating noise in the PA. Particularly when using wireless rigs for guitars and in-ears.

 

 

Not a problem with digital systems:thu:

[Tomm Williams]

Chip

 

One thing i've done that works well is for the band to designate a "runner". I know this is not as professional as a side-monitor mix or wireless communication,etc... but it works and it's cheap. most of the bands i've worked with usually brought along a few friends who, for the most part, were also musicians. Prior to the set starting, we would agree to who would be the go-between, and things worked fine.

 

As a last resort, this would work for you. By the way, what have you done on your contract issue? I'm in the same situation. TW

[6Imzadi]

If you're really that far away, you should be using a runner. Aside from all the suggestions of radios and clearcom type comm devices. Cell phone. HA. Tried that. Didn't work. Couldn't hear a damn thing for the PA being so loud.

 

From the sound of it, you aren't using your own gear. Even if you have to hire a guy for the night for $20 and beer, get someone you can trust to give you signals.

[Dogoth]

 

Try to avoid signals like thumbs up meaning it is ok. That is too easy to misinterpret.

 

 

I run monitors side stage. I jokingly tell people "It depends on which finger you use as to what you'll get" :>)

 

Agreed Thumbs up can (and has) been easily miss interpreted. I usualy use the circle O (for OK) to tell people all is good. Pointing up or down and then a fist to stop (i don't mean in the nose ........... unless the guy's a real butt head :>), is my prefered method.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

If you're really that far away, you should be using a runner. Aside from all the suggestions of radios and clearcom type comm devices. Cell phone.

 

I always carry and use a good set of binoculars at FOH, especially if I'm mixing monitors from FOH... because reading facial expressions of the performers can be a wealth of communication. And I always use a que wedge that matches the other monitors on stage for mixing monitors regardless if I'm mixing monitors at FOH or at a monitor board.

[BillESC]

Obviously, the ability to communicate with the performers is the best solution, hence the suggestion for an intercom circuit to the stage.

 

It's the only real time solution because gestures may not be read correctly, binoculars still don't give you all the information you may need and are only a one way communication.

 

As posted, even a dummy mic set to solo for your ears only is a inprovement for the act to communicate their needs.

[agedhorse]

I always carry and use a good set of binoculars at FOH, especially if I'm mixing monitors from FOH... because reading facial expressions of the performers can be a wealth of communication. And I always use a que wedge that matches the other monitors on stage for mixing monitors regardless if I'm mixing monitors at FOH or at a monitor board.

 

Me too, and there are other entertaining uses for binoculars as well.

[Dogoth]

Me too, and there are other entertaining uses for binoculars as well.

 

Funny, I carry a small 2.5X monocular in my pocket at all times. It's tiny but pretty good optics. It's Like my Gerber multi-tool, I use them all of the time and don't realize how much until don't have them.

[RoadRanger]

Minor detour:

How many monitor mixes are folks running from FOH these days? I seem to remember the days where anything over one was considered stoopid, then two, and the latest I read was four? Six monitor send boards are becoming readily available (StudioLive for one) - any of yous guys running more than four?