Members tama_drummer_73 Posted January 7, 2010 Members Share Posted January 7, 2010 Hello all, First time poster here. I've got a question that is pretty much stated in the title of the post. I've been using a Behringer 4 channel compressor for about a year now and am not really sure if it is making that much difference in the sound of the PA. I have been toying around with the idea of switching to a DBX 1046 compressor instead. My biggest question is this, do you compress? If so why and what do you compress, what settings do you use (as I have seen quite a few different responses on this on Google.). If you don't compress, why don't you? Right now I compress the outputs of the x-over, as I have seen instances where this particular method will allow you to control the compression levels better based on the frequency ranges, instead of compressing the entire mix. Is this the best way of doing it? Or IS there a "best" way of setting up the compressor? Any and all suggestions are welcomed. Also, do you suggest compressing the monitor mix, or just let the limiter take care of the peak levels? I want to thank you in advance for taking time out of your day to answer the questions presented to you, as I am by no means an expert. If you need to know more about the equipment, I will be glad to supply that info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted January 7, 2010 Members Share Posted January 7, 2010 i recommend you dont do that. have a look at some past threads as we have discussed this in great detail, even recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tama_drummer_73 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2010 Thanks Coaster, What exactly are you not recommending? Compression in general or the technique that I am using to compress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 7, 2010 Members Share Posted January 7, 2010 If you have appropriately sized your amplifiers to the speakers and the amps have limiters, there's no benefit to additional compression. By properly sized, I mean for your skill level, class of speaker, type of music and level of attentiveness you pay to not having accidents and oopses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gonzobassman Posted January 7, 2010 Members Share Posted January 7, 2010 I think that compression is to be used on certain parts of the live mix.Like some compression on the bass,or the lead vocal,or kick drum,but not the entire mix.Maybe that is what Coaster is saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tama_drummer_73 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2010 Thanks guys for the insight. I might just compress the kicks and maybe just use the limiters for the high side of the x-over. I am using 2 Crown CE1000's for my highs and the 2 CE2000's for my lows. No problems with the amps yet. Actually they sound pretty decent. I haven't made the move to the upper level Crowns yet, but hey you gotta have goals LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted January 7, 2010 Members Share Posted January 7, 2010 i'm saying you shouldnt stick behringer comps inbetween the xover and amps. also, be careful with your CE1k and CE2k, i've seen about 6 different ones go up in a blaze of glory and take out all the drivers with it. something to do with a grounding point, aged could explain better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tama_drummer_73 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2010 Ok, would compressing the entire signal before the x-over be the best thing to do then? Or would compressing individual channels be the best option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tama_drummer_73 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2010 Also, on the topic of the ce1k and ce2k, what are the issues that you have seen agedhorse? Sorry to change the subject here a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted January 7, 2010 Members Share Posted January 7, 2010 I'd pick 4 individual sources to comp, the most dynamic or ones that tend to cause big spikes in level. i typically do 6 channels of comp; kick, snare, bass, lead vocs, and two others i pick that might seem trouble during a show...and often i'll switch those onto something else after a few songs.. the Behr comps do work decently. one of my summer parks gigs bought one. If I can give any advice, it's to not use hosa insert cables. get the EWI, i love their 4 ch insert cable:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 7, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 Ok, would compressing the entire signal before the x-over be the best thing to do then? Or would compressing individual channels be the best option? Why would you do any of this? If you can't answer, then there's no acoustic issue you need to correct or compensate for, and you can return the Behringer to its rightful place as a doorstop. Never, never never apply a solution to a problem you haven't identified or even noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 7, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 7, 2010 Also, on the topic of the ce1k and ce2k, what are the issues that you have seen agedhorse? Sorry to change the subject here a bit. Where did he mention issues? The more I read this thread, the more confusing it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shamdog Posted January 7, 2010 Members Share Posted January 7, 2010 i'm saying you shouldnt stick behringer comps inbetween the xover and amps.also, be careful with your CE1k and CE2k, i've seen about 6 different ones go up in a blaze of glory and take out all the drivers with it. something to do with a grounding point, aged could explain better. I think he's refering to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tama_drummer_73 Posted January 7, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 7, 2010 Craigv.... Actually I was just asking a simple question. Do you compress? or Don't you? I gave my situation and I am getting some feedback.... Don't jump on me just because of something that I posted, I'm trying to learn here. Some of you have been doing this a long time and I obviously haven't. I want to make sure I am going about it the right way. As far as the amps are concerned, read the post..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Are you talking about "compression" which is normally for tone/program correction ... or ... "limiting" which is for speaker protection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tama_drummer_73 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Basically, I am compressing the signal as it comes out of the crossover. I just want some different opinions on how people run their compressors. I think I have come to the conclusion that I will try and run the compressor on the inserts of the busses and on the individual channels. That will probably result in the best compression technique. Am I on the right track here guys/gals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rotebass Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 The point Craig is trying to make is that if you don't know what you want to compress, then you probably shouldn't compress at all. My advice, don't mess around with buss-compression, it's a whole can of worms that your probably not ready to tackle yet. In fact, learn to mix to the best of your ability without using compressors, you will be glad you did. If you do want to learn to use a compressor, start by learning the way that engineers use most commonly, spend some time with a few good musicians and try inserting the compressors on different channels and then experiment to hear the results. Try compressing the kick drum, listen to the way the character of the drum changes as you dial the knobs. Do the same for snare, toms, bass, vocals and even guitar, the changes will be slight at first but over time you will develop an ear for it. You be surprised what a big difference a 3:1 compression ratio with the threshold just touching the peaks will make for a good singer, really polishes the performance if done tastefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tama_drummer_73 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 rotebass.... That was one of the best suggestions that I have heard in a long time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Wasn't my post, but I have seen a number of CE 1000 & 2000's come through and basicly they were more or less unrepairable for a reasonable cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 The only reason to compress (as opposed to protective limiting) after the crossover that I can think of would be if you want to tame the horns a bit as you crank up the system. Of course this would mean that your tops would have to be bi-amped or tri-amped. I compress vocals pretty hard, as I like them on top but smooth. This requires comping a vocal group, or splitting the channels (one for the house mix, and one for the monitors) (otherwise you'll be compressing the vocals in the monitors, which is very bad). I often put a comp on the keys, so I have something to save folks' ears when the keyboardist dials up a patch that's way louder than the others. I often comp the bass, especially if the stage volume is a large percentage of the sound in the house. I never compress the kick (unless the guy has a lousy foot), as it reduces felt impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members banddad Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 I never compress the whole mix, nor do I here it as being generally recommended. I also do not compress the monitor mix, I keep the monitor mix quite dry so the musicians can best control their own music. Often, I don't compress anything. Kiss is my motto.Generally, compress individual sources, on an as needed basis. I do use some compression on vocals. In particular one of the vocalists I often work with goes from mellower back-ground vocals, to a near -screaming lead vocal. In this case, I use the compression to keep the loud vocals from going too loud, while keeping some volume for his quieter passages. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 8, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 As far as the amps are concerned, read the post..... Using the quote button makes it much easier for readers to know who you're addressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members allexcosta Posted January 9, 2010 Members Share Posted January 9, 2010 Do this: Sell the Behringer and compress nothing, at least for now. Study compression and once you understand it decide if you need it or not. If yes, buy a decent stereo unit and insert on kick and main voice. Use AS NEEDED, IF NEEDED. If you feel the need for compression on anything else, buy more compressors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted January 9, 2010 Members Share Posted January 9, 2010 Multi-band compression is a neat tool for mastering and I suppose one could try it live. I don't think I'd want to limit myself to the fixed x-over points the system would be using though; off the top of my head the multi-band comp in vegas I use has 3 points at 250, 800, 4-5k. I don't really remember though, live I wouldn't bother. FWIW I don't mind the behringer 4ch comps; kick, vocals etc. I don't recommend compressing everything a whole lot. It also messes with your monitor mixes too and can really cuz feedback. (there is a whole 'nother story, maybe I'll post it) In a x-cover - compressor - amp situation using soft compression (RMS) to bring the overall level down you can thermal your horns out pretty easy. Generally sub and low drivers fail due to mechanical reasons and tweets don't move all that much from transients. But they do heat up. Compressing them causes more power to go thru them and not as many trasients to keep the diaphram moving. It won't move that much anyway but you'd be suprised what squashing a signal will do to a driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tama_drummer_73 Posted January 10, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 10, 2010 Thanks guys for all of the useful information. I've got some ideas on what I want to do now. I think I will definitely change some stuff around in my PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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