Members BassStrings93 Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Hi. So i know a very little bit about matching speakers to power amps compared to most of you. I think i got it down, but, would like to make sure before i spend 700 bucks on a power amp just to blow my speakers. Alright, So im about to buy a Crown XTI-2000 tomorrow. I have two Peavey PR15s. Now, my speakers need 400w programmed power at 8ohms. The Crown XTI-2000 produces 475w at 8ohms per channel, and 800w at 4ohms. My question is, would this amp be a good match to my two PR15s. And also, i would like to buy two more PR15s for monitors in the future. So will it run 4 speakers also? All Help is very appreciated! Any additional info can be found at these links: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-PR-15-NEO-Passive-Loudspeaker?sku=601426 http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Crown-XTI-2000-Power-Amplifier?sku=481589 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Too much power, IMO. 250-300 is pretty much at their safe limits, if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 You should do some shopping around on that poweramp, they can be had for MUCH less then the $700 listed at MF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Too much power, IMO. 250-300 is pretty much at their safe limits, if that.Yah, I usually run my PR's off an RMX1450 clone - 300w each. If you run a pair off one channel so's you can use the other for monitors it will still put 250w into each. I have run them off an RMX2450 on occasion but that's just askin' for it . A QSC GX3 is the same power as the 1450 but limited to two speakers per side but less money and should be fine for what you want to do . If you care more about low weight than cost an XTI-1000 is about the same power also. EDIT> Looks like you can actually get an XTI-1000 for $300 these days so probably a better purchase than the GX3 which is about the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarharv52 Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 You might give a look to the new Peavey IPR1600 amp.Seven pounds and three hundred bucks I think.It may have speaker processing to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 You might give a look to the new Peavey IPR1600 amp.Seven pounds and three hundred bucks I think.It may have speaker processing to match ...... if they ever ship them . EDIT> Looks like they actually have - there's even one on eBay. Limited availability though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gomer Pyle Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 There are a few people on the Peavey forum chatting about the IPR1600 they just received, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 XTI1000 on sale for $308, 2000 for $429, 4000 for $599 and 6000 for $1199. $700 is robbery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BassStrings93 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 hey guys. thanks for the replies. Ok, well ive looked around. Im going to get a used one with 2 years of warranty left for $300. But i like the fact i cant tune the amp with my computer. I also one day hope to upgrade my speakers. The xti2000 has 475w per channel at 8 ohms, but cant i dial it back so that i dont have to over work my amp to drive my speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 hey guys. thanks for the replies. Ok, well ive looked around. Im going to get a used one with 2 years of warranty left for $300. But i like the fact i cant tune the amp with my computer. I also one day hope to upgrade my speakers. The xti2000 has 475w per channel at 8 ohms, but cant i dial it back so that i dont have to over work my amp to drive my speakers? Nope, it doesn't work that way. If you happen to have an accident or lack of good judgement, you will quickly understand why we are recommending less power. Just get a GX-3 and be done with it. Good resale value when you upgrade or sell it with the speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BassStrings93 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Nope, it doesn't work that way. If you happen to have an accident or lack of good judgement, you will quickly understand why we are recommending less power. Just get a GX-3 and be done with it. Good resale value when you upgrade or sell it with the speakers. What exactly do you mean by an "accident" or "lack of good judgment"? Im not sure what a good deal would be on a xti2000, but would $300 be fair? Im sorry, could someone explain to me how things work, ive talked with experienced people, and they say you can just dial down the amp, my thinking is that this would give you alot more headroom if im not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 What exactly do you mean by an "accident" or "lack of good judgment"? Im not sure what a good deal would be on a xti2000, but would $300 be fair? Im sorry, could someone explain to me how things work, ive talked with experienced people, and they say you can just dial down the amp, my thinking is that this would give you alot more headroom if im not mistaken. Totally mistaken, and if that's the advice being given by "experienced" people then what is this industry coming to? $300 is "fair" assuming it works correctly but it's not a great choice for your speakers. The controls on the amp change the sensitivity for rated (or full) output. It has nothing (directly) to do with the maximum power the amp will deliver. If you don't understand what I ment by having an accident or lack of good judgement, the CE-2000 is way too big for your speakers. accident: droppin the bloody mic, somebody pointing the mic at the monitor and getting whopping feedback, somebody coming up on stage and screaming into the mic. lack of good judgement: not bringing enough PA to do the job without driving the piss out of it, letting levels creap up, not using a proper high pass filter (you do have a high pass filter engaged on your main signal path right (PS it's not in the amp so do you even have one?) If not, the RMS rating on that box is as high as you should go. The GX-3 includes a high pass filter internally and you can't switch it off (yay). Letting somebody else who does not understand the limits of the system mix and they get carried away, etc. Understand now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BassStrings93 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Totally mistaken, and if that's the advice being given by "experienced" people then what is this industry coming to?$300 is "fair" assuming it works correctly but it's not a great choice for your speakers.The controls on the amp change the sensitivity for rated (or full) output. It has nothing (directly) to do with the maximum power the amp will deliver.If you don't understand what I ment by having an accident or lack of good judgement, the CE-2000 is way too big for your speakers.accident: droppin the bloody mic, somebody pointing the mic at the monitor and getting whopping feedback, somebody coming up on stage and screaming into the mic. lack of good judgement: not bringing enough PA to do the job without driving the piss out of it, letting levels creap up, not using a proper high pass filter (you do have a high pass filter engaged on your main signal path right (PS it's not in the amp so do you even have one?) If not, the RMS rating on that box is as high as you should go. The GX-3 includes a high pass filter internally and you can't switch it off (yay). Letting somebody else who does not understand the limits of the system mix and they get carried away, etc. Understand now? I believe so. Let me see if i got this straight if you dont mind. So, what your saying is that no matter if i dial the amp back or not, it still sends 475w to my speakers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 What exactly do you mean by an "accident" or "lack of good judgment"? Im not sure what a good deal would be on a xti2000, but would $300 be fair? Im sorry, could someone explain to me how things work, ive talked with experienced people, and they say you can just dial down the amp, my thinking is that this would give you alot more headroom if im not mistaken. "Accident" means dropping a microphone on the floor, or any other instantaneous audio spike inputing enough signal to drive the amp to full power, regardless of where the attenuators on the front of the amp are set. The "dials" are NOT gain controls....they are sensitivity attenuators, and there are many ways to exceed the set levels in the signal path. The outputs of the amp are geared to run at full power, regardless of the type of amp it is. "Lack of good judgement" can refer to the overzealous use of the gain controls, in any device within the signal path.... or clipping the amp and not turning down the gains to eliminate clipping, because you were not watching the clip lights. or failure to filter frequencies that are lower that what the speakers are capable of reproducing at higher volumes.... or failure to consider that an EQ is not for adding bottom end to the lower frequencies....or any frequencies for that matter... or failure to consider that limiters are not infallible... or a myriad of other ways....(that guys like Andy can tell you about because they have likely heard nearly every possible story as to how the speakers blew, since they repairs them as part of his living). Failure to consider that heavily compressed music and high duty cycle passages at low frequencies with significant crests 6-15db range increase the requirements of an amp by requiring enough output to run the amp into clipping....you should see some of Andy's gap jumper pictures! Essentially the non-judicious use of gain in any part of the signal path through frequency attenuatiting devices such as EQs, Bass synthesizing devices such as Peavey Kosmos, and BBE, creates demands on the amp since the input levels are increased enough to bring full ouput from the amp is dangerous. Many ppl never consider that in Audio you do not get something for nothing. There has got to be a bunch that I have not mentioned....but I think you will get the idea. I hope that helps. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 I believe so. Let me see if i got this straight if you dont mind. So, what your saying is that no matter if i dial the amp back or not, it still sends 475w to my speakers? No it means that it is easily possible to do so, regardless of whether the dials are set at 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 or fully on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members malcatron Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 As far as speaker ratings go the number you're interested in is the RMS rating (also known as "continuous"). Match your amp to around about that, so in your case the Peavey PR15 is 200w. This article from Peavey is a good introduction to Power http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/poweramps/HOW_MUCH_POWER.pdf If you can't be bothered to read through it all the most important bit is If you are looking for a recommendation so that you would be relatively free ofblowing up the speaker under almost any real world condition, you should pickan amplifier that can deliver the continuous rating of the speaker or a little less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 cant i dial it back so that i dont have to over work my amp to drive my speakers?Yes, set the limiters to -3db . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yes, set the limiters to -3db . Yes, or buy the less expensive model that is appropriately sized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yes, or buy the less expensive model that is appropriately sized.Yah, we just know that those PR15's without subs are gonna be a temptation to crank it back up and poof ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BassStrings93 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Yes, set the limiters to -3db . How would i go about doing that? What exactly do limiters do? I guess they would limit the wattage? thanks everybody, for the help. I appreciate it. Just wondering. Maybe this amp would be a good choice if i run two PR15s off of one channel and buy a sub and run it on the other channel? Does anyone know if the XTI is limited to the amount of speakers you can run off of one channel, im sure its limited, but to what extent? if that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 Read the amp manual. Follow the instructions VERY carefully. Or buy the smaller amp, be sure the limiter is engaged to 0dB, and the HPF is set to 40 or 50Hz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted January 8, 2010 Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 How would i go about doing that? What exactly do limiters do? I guess they would limit the wattage? thanks everybody, for the help. I appreciate it.RTFM on that amp . But really - get the XTI-1000 and later get some subs and another amp to drive them. Worst case as you "grow" the XTI-1000 can be used for monitors or the HF drivers if you ever biamp some tops. BTW I read a bit and that Peavey IPR1600 is getting good reviews so far and is half the weight of the XTI and more efficient (less AC power draw) to boot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BassStrings93 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 RTFM on that amp . But really - get the XTI-1000 and later get some subs and another amp to drive them. Worst case as you "grow" the XTI-1000 can be used for monitors or the HF drivers if you ever biamp some tops. BTW I read a bit and that Peavey IPR1600 is getting good reviews so far and is half the weight of the XTI and more efficient (less AC power draw) to boot! Ok. Quick question ( if there is such a thing, haha.) How would the Peavey IPR1600 be better if its 530w per channel at 8 ohms. If 475w at 8ohms is to much, 530w at 8 ohms would be even worse, correct? Unless, the crown runs on 50hz instead of 100hz? Sorry if that sounds crazy, just trying to get a grasp on things. Also, not trying to be hard headed, ive just heard great things about crown amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted January 8, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 How would i go about doing that? What exactly do limiters do? I guess they would limit the wattage? thanks everybody, for the help. I appreciate it. The concepts here are a bit tricky to pick up at first, so stick with this and keep asking questions if you don't get it. It'll "click" at some point. Limiters are compression that's set at ~10:1 ratio or higher. It limits the INPUT by reducing it by the factor (10:1, 12:1, etc.) set, and it is set to engage (start working) at a given input level (in this case, at -3dB). As stated in an earlier post, the attenuators on the amp are not volume controls in the sense that you're probably thinking; "if I set it to half, then power output is half or less". To better understand, consider a typical radio, for instance. The tuner sends a signal to the radio's audio amp that is fixed to a maximum level. Not much can go wrong there, so there's little chance that the tuner will somehow overdrive the amp and therefore make the amp produce more than rated power. Not so with our pro audio amps. The amp doesn't know or care what you plug into it....it will drive a signal at fixed gain, regardless of how hot it is. The attenuators will reduce that signal, but a hotter one is still possible...and an accident like feedback or dropped mic will create an input signal that's incredibly hot. So by either using a smaller amp, or by properly setting limiters (see dboomer's post in the Guide for Goobers sticky thread at the top of these pages for a good step-by-step to do this) for a larger amp, you can better control (but note..NOT guarantee) the amp's output. Keep in mind that "headroom" really just means "unused power". And unused power is wasted money you've spent on an amp. Especially if the only time that "headroom" actually gets used is when something goes horribly wrong on stage and the amp blows your speakers. It's easy when you start out to think, "well, I'll be careful, and those accidents won't happen". Trust me. They do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BassStrings93 Posted January 8, 2010 Author Members Share Posted January 8, 2010 The concepts here are a bit tricky to pick up at first, so stick with this and keep asking questions if you don't get it. It'll "click" at some point. Limiters are compression that's set at ~10:1 ratio or higher. It limits the INPUT by reducing it by the factor (10:1, 12:1, etc.) set, and it is set to engage (start working) at a given input level (in this case, at -3dB). As stated in an earlier post, the attenuators on the amp are not volume controls in the sense that you're probably thinking; "if I set it to half, then power output is half or less". To better understand, consider a typical radio, for instance. The tuner sends a signal to the radio's audio amp that is fixed to a maximum level. Not much can go wrong there, so there's little chance that the tuner will somehow overdrive the amp and therefore make the amp produce more than rated power. Not so with our pro audio amps. The amp doesn't know or care what you plug into it....it will drive a signal at fixed gain, regardless of how hot it is. The attenuators will reduce that signal, but a hotter one is still possible...and an accident like feedback or dropped mic will create an input signal that's incredibly hot. So by either using a smaller amp, or by properly setting limiters (see dboomer's post in the Guide for Goobers sticky thread at the top of these pages for a good step-by-step to do this) for a larger amp, you can better control (but note..NOT guarantee) the amp's output. Keep in mind that "headroom" really just means "unused power". And unused power is wasted money you've spent on an amp. Especially if the only time that "headroom" actually gets used is when something goes horribly wrong on stage and the amp blows your speakers. It's easy when you start out to think, "well, I'll be careful, and those accidents won't happen". Trust me. They do. Very Helpfull Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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