What is it with some bands??

[Starboard]

I recently provided SR at one of my local venues for a three piece funk/blues act. When they were soundchecking I told them that I thought the stage volume was way too high for me to get a quality mix happenning. Despite me asking them to possibly turn down a bit, they went ahead and did things their way. In this venue, I only get to mix from about 25 - 30 feet away from the FOH speakers. I took a measurement with the FOH speakers off and I was getting 117.4dBC stage volume where I was mixing from. The venue is only approximately 25x60 and I explained to the owner the reason for the lack of control of the volume. I work this venue quite often and he totally undertstood what was going on. He had a talk with the band after the first set, but it didn't seem to do any good. I ended up with kick and vocals in the speakers, but the overall volume was just way too much for the venue. What the hell are these bands thinking?? I guess they don't care what the overall product sounds like. The thing I hate are the customers that think we operators should be able to fix this kind of scenario, and when it sounds bad it is all our fault. Some things are just out of our control.

[karlw]

Pretty common, unfortunately. Some of it has to do with guitarists thinking that unless they crank up their amps, they are not getting good tone. Then there are the drummers that just can't bring it down and think that "hitting hard" is the only way to make music. Then the other players on stage have to turn up to hear themselves. Not pretty.

[Mutha Goose]

Sounds like my night 2 Saturday's ago. Within the 1st half of the 1st song, the owner came right at me asking me (telling me) to bring the levels down. I kept trying to explain to him that there was nothing I could do. The volume he was hearing was coming from the drums and the bass player (mostly the bass player). I had both off in the mix. He kept pushing. I finally pulled the mains all the way off. It was only then that he believed me. Patrons were complaining that they couldn't hear the vocals or the guitar well enough as well. So finally I turned the bass player's amp down and added him to the monitor to try to keep him from turning back up. Nope. By the very next song, the bass amp was back up. I work with this band semi-regularly. I've talked with them about stage volumes and specifically about the bass player's level. They tell me the same thing every time, "if he's too loud, turn him down". When I do, he turns himself right back up. Not much you can do at that point, but to make the best out of it and let them know, "it's your show and your sound to mess up as you wish"

[kmart]

 

They tell me the same thing every time, "if he's too loud, turn him down".

 

The BAND tells you to turn the bass player's AMP down?

 

Wow...

I think I'd refuse that one, and let them know that's out of my realm of responsibility and most important, squarely within theirs.

[rwhealey]

I had one of these the other day. I was micing vocals only and just couldn't coax the volume I needed out of the rig I had.

 

It didn't help that I was using a pair of EV Force (original!). It looks like a pretty decent 15" + horn, right? Nope. It's rated for 250 watts, 99dB 1W/1m, and is without a doubt the worst speaker I've had to use. I'd like to say I like everything EV has made, but these guys ruined that for me. Hell, my Zx1s have more volume!

 

I was using a Yamaha 300 watt powered mixer and was tickling the limiter at a volume I could barely hear the vocals over all the Marshall stacks.

 

At a break I pulled two of the SM12III monitors and put them on top of the EVs. I'm embarrassed it sounded so bad, but at least it kinda kept up...

 

I warned the band, too, that I wasn't working with a good enough rig to keep up with them. They just blasted ahead at full volume!

[Mogwix]

My band plays as loud as we need to in order to hear ourselves, each other, and to be comfortable on stage. It ends up being fairly loud, but it's a balanced mix (bass and guitar amps point inward) and most any PA should have absolutely no problem getting the vocals over our stage volume.

 

On the flipside, I have more of a problem getting bands to play LOUDER than I do with bands that are too loud. I get this all the time, where I'm mixing in a small venue and the guitarist comes over the PA and says "I can't hear the guitar, can you turn it up in my monitor?". I pick up my talkback and politely tell him that "your amp is your stage monitor, point it at your head and turn it up if you can't hear it."

 

 

I warned the band, too, that I wasn't working with a good enough rig to keep up with them. They just blasted ahead at full volume!

 

This is the key point in this discussion. If you told me that your rig isn't up to snuff, thanks for your honesty and no offense to you, but we would've packed our {censored} and left. We carry a rider spec for a reason, and if you don't meet it we don't play.

[rwhealey]

 

This is the key point in this discussion. If you told me that your rig isn't up to snuff, thanks for your honesty and no offense to you, but we would've packed our {censored} and left. We carry a rider spec for a reason, and if you don't meet it we don't play.

 

 

I wouldn't mind that! It was a college open mic/battle of the bands - nobody was being paid to play and the audience was tiny, otherwise I would have had the venue rent real equipment. There were two loud bands and five acoustic acts, which the rig was fine for.

[Phil Clark]

I guess you could have always taken his amp power cord, plugged him into a DI and given him bass in the monitor. He couldn't turn up then.

 

Not that I would ever do that myself. Good way to get a bad rep.

 

We just did PA for a band that generally has loud stage volume to begin with and on this gig we also did side-fills. Yeowch!!! It was loud on stage.

 

The general attitude is "If it's too loud, your too old" when the reality is "If it's too loud, the venue may not ever book you again".

[Flogger59]

The bass player was too close to his amp. It's a common problem. They park their asses on the grillcloth, turn up, and complain. Meanwhile small animals are curling up and dying 30 feet out.

[Mogwix]

 

We just did PA for a band that generally has loud stage volume to begin with and on this gig we also did side-fills. Yeowch!!! It was loud on stage.

 

Friend of mine was on tour supporting the Tea Party and Danko Jones a few years back. He was telling me about their monitor rig... clair 12AM's on the floor, clair P4's for sidefills, plus stacks of cranked guitar and bass amps (no dummy cabs on this tour)... it's no wonder Jeff Martin couldn't hear {censored} the last time I talked to him.

 

When you're touring the world you can do whatever you want, but until then you'd better respect everyone you work with.

[Mutha Goose]

The BAND tells you to turn the bass player's AMP down? Wow... I think I'd refuse that one, and let them know that's out of my realm of responsibility and most important, squarely within theirs .

 

Believe me you, I let the whole band know that I wasn't comfortable with this. I do not like being the volume police But they always insist.

 

The problem is never "can I get the PA louder than the bass player." The problem is, "if I get the band to mix with the bass player, the audience will have to put in ear plugs or stand outside."

[Scodiddly]

 

nobody was being paid to play

 

 

There you are - you aren't an employee, and you probably won't ever be an employee. Do whatever you want! If somebody wants quiet, let's see some cash in return.

 

Sadly, that's pretty much the way it works nowadays. There's no living to be made as a bar player these days. Those who are bothering to show up are mostly amateurs who want to show off their cool amps and extra-bright cymbals.

[agedhorse]

The ringing in your ears may not go away... is that what you guys want? I have a friend who can no longer play because to tinnitis, his career has come to an end. He has trouble sleeping, can't go to a theatre and watch a movie etc. {censored}ty way to go about life eh?

 

His band's stage volume was loud, very loud, and it took a toll on them.

[Coaster]

i was born with tinnitus; i used to ask my mom what that ringing/buzzing sound was and she would give me a look like 'my kid is crazy'. i can hear a mouse fart a block away but the older i get the more trouble i have in crowds; i've given up trying to tune the crowd out and cant really listen to individuals anymore.

 

i like quiet places.

[Miket156]

by Karlw: Pretty common, unfortunately. Some of it has to do with guitarists thinking that unless they crank up their amps, they are not getting good tone. Then there are the drummers that just can't bring it down and think that "hitting hard" is the only way to make music. Then the other players on stage have to turn up to hear themselves. Not pretty.

 

This is very common. Best thing for the audience to do is get up and leave. I have to feel sorry for any soundman that has to listen to 117db all night. I hope you carry hearing protection for dealing with musicians that think that the louder they play, the better they sound.

 

Small stage amps can change all that if the band is willing to do it. A small amp can get great tone at low db and everybody is happy. As far as drummers that bang away all night........get a drum machine. It won't hit on your ole lady and there will be no bar bill after the gig.

 

 

Mike T.

[Phil Clark]

...They tell me the same thing every time, "if he's too loud, turn him down". ...

 

On the other side of the coin, I was attending an event where the band was running their own sound from stage, and I had worked with them before. The Bass player called me over and informed me that they were using his amp for the bass and that if he was too loud that I should come up and turn his amp down. Quite the contrary though, I told him after the first song to go ahead and turn up a little, I needed more Bass in the mix.

 

I don't know which of us was more surprised.

[Gomer Pyle]

I use a 25 watt Guild Maverick tube combo stacked on top of a second 15 cab for bass, my stage volume is quiet. Mega watt bass amps are the only thing that many bass players dream of, just check out the bass forum. I have done sound for some pro level bands where the bass is still out of hand. I figure either they're half deaf or they're used to playing on large stages.

[Phil Clark]

We once had a punk band play after the main band we were hired to do. They stopped early to let their friends play a set. We asked them nicely to turn down, and they turned up, so we pulled everything but vocals out of the mix, and eventually pulled the vocals down too.

 

I half expected Jerry to say "Shut the system off and lets start tearing down". But we left them with the illusion that we were doing something for them.

[Dogoth]

 

Pretty common, unfortunately. Some of it has to do with guitarists thinking that unless they crank up their amps, they are not getting good tone. Then there are the drummers that just can't bring it down and think that "hitting hard" is the only way to make music. Then the other players on stage have to turn up to hear themselves. Not pretty.

 

 

:thu:Yea Karlw. You nailed it down exactly.

 

I think I worked with those guys sometime in the last year. I'd bet we all did. That band sure does get around.

[summit111]

My Brothers,

 

In order to control stage volume, I use Roland e-drums and an IEM system. I bleed just enough of the kick and snare into the remaining wedges for the other members to hear.

 

We had a hard of hearing guitarist who insisted on cranking up, but I finally had enough of it and replaced him.

 

He also put out his own personal tip jar at one gig, and that was it for him!

[Marc G]

heh.... kinda sounds like my band..... the other guitarist in my bad just can't seem to play at a resonable level.... we did a gig 3 weeks ago and the engineer told me after he wasn't even in the mix... this is a place that had about 75 people, all I could hear was him... was REALLY annoying.. as usual it ended up being an argument later. The following week though we played in a club that can hold about 300-400 people... unfortunately we didn't get a sound check but a quick line check and we just set our amps to the drums.. later I found out no guitars ended up in the mix as the amps were loud enough... atleast this gig I could hear everything.... and we are playing there again next week Saturday... sound check this time though..lol

[Mogwix]

 

In order to control stage volume, I use Roland e-drums and an IEM system.

 

Urgh. I like a low stage volume but I'll never play or recommend e-drums for live use. Leave those in the apartment.

 

I hate playing e-kits and I hate mixing them. Whatever works for you though is great.

[orangesix]

Not sure if this is the case with this band but, How hard is it for soundguys to realize that some type of music needs to be loud? for the type of music I play, i need to be on the brink of feedback at all times, as well as part of the overall aesthetic of the music is to overwhelm people with noise. again, not sure if this is the case here, but i generally think that most sound guys are wayyyy out of date with CURRENT music.

[Rezrover]

 

Not sure if this is the case with this band but, How hard is it for soundguys to realize that some type of music needs to be loud? for the type of music I play, i need to be on the brink of feedback at all times, as well as part of the overall aesthetic of the music is to overwhelm people with noise. again, not sure if this is the case here, but i generally think that most sound guys are wayyyy out of date with CURRENT music.

 

 

Are you talking about weekend warrior/bar bands or touring bands? I guess you can do whatever you want, however you want when your band is selling tickets and being played on the radio but when your noise & feedback are clearing out a 200 capacity room and you're using a house PA, you gotta work with what and who you got.

[RoadRanger]