Members MaseMan Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 So for the three years, our band has gone with the general "two speakers on sticks" setup that our guitarist owns. Two Kustom PA speakers running off a decent but not super-high end Peavey PA head. Some people on another forum said we should probably add powered subs to our setup to increase the quality of the sound. I agree it would probably help tremendously. The kicker is we don't play out a ton. Usually 1-2 shows per month. Looks like good subs run about $700 minimum. I don't have a ton of disposable cash lying around at the moment. I'm wondering if we could get away with adding one for now, and then maybe a second down the line? The places we play usually aren't huge...like 50-75 people maximum (smaller local bars, not big huge night clubs). I'm also wondering if at that point I could take my bass direct through my Sansamp DI box. That way I could save space in my vehicle and not have to drag along my bass speaker cabs. We already use in ear monitors, so hearing myself on stage shouldn't be a big problem. Thanks for any tips and help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dedmeet Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 A suitable powered sub would add some low-frequency capability to your system,but without a means to cut those same lows out of the tops, the net result would likely be just awful. Suggestion: Ditch the Kustom piles of junk and the PA head on CL then go buy two quality powered speakers and a decent passive mixer. Later, add subs if you add things like bass and kick drums into the mix. That's my $0.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 Suggestion: Ditch the Kustom piles of junk and the PA head on CL then go buy two quality powered speakers and a decent passive mixer. Later, add subs if you add things like bass and kick drums into the mix. That's my $0.02. Agreed, This is likely to improve things more than just adding subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Koopdaddy Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 I agree with Dedmeet, you would be better off purchasing some higher quality mains. You can always add subs later...as you said you are playing for small audiences. Small spaces often less is more so perhaps you dont need the subs afterall if your mains are of decent quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 As mentioned already you'd be better of tossing the Kustoms are junk speakers and you need a x-over if you added a active sub. You'd be wasting your money because as the old saying goes. You can't polish a turd.You might look for used passive mixer and maybe EV ZLX are more budget friendly, but have no direct experience with the ZLX. I've also read decent reviews with the Alto True Sonics active cabs are budget friendly and decent sounding, but again have no direct experience with the True Sonics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mkfs9 Posted March 13, 2014 Members Share Posted March 13, 2014 Def agree those tops will never help you to get a better sound. Monitors maybe ?. Get some decent tops and prob wont need sub's in a small bar type gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rocktone Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 I have a Yamaha MG166CX mixer with a pair of EV ZLX15Ps on sticks. I have an outboard dual 15 band EQ and an external efx processor that I use in conjunction with the built in efx of the board. This is more than enough for a 3 piece band in a smaller bar/club type place playing Classic Rock. There is plenty of extra volume with the speakers (that I don't need) and they sound great. A sub would definitely help us out in some places but for the most part if your drummer has a nice punchy deep kick as it is, you can get by. I have passive yamaha speakers for monitors which uses half of my EQ. Easy and great sounding PA that is pretty affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drummer44 Posted March 14, 2014 Members Share Posted March 14, 2014 I'm also wondering if at that point I could take my bass direct through my Sansamp DI box. That way I could save space in my vehicle and not have to drag along my bass speaker cabs. We already use in ear monitors, so hearing myself on stage shouldn't be a big problem. Thanks for any tips and help! Just commenting on this part: Yes, you can probably bag your bass amp/cab if you have a sub in your PA. Maybe even without sub, although that would depend much more on the quality of your tops. -D44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 This pic is small enough that only us old guys recognize it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 Yup, tuck & roll baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wesg Posted March 17, 2014 Members Share Posted March 17, 2014 How 'bout this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Easy Listener Posted March 18, 2014 Members Share Posted March 18, 2014 So for the three years, our band has gone with the general "two speakers on sticks" setup that our guitarist owns. Two Kustom PA speakers running off a decent but not super-high end Peavey PA head. Some people on another forum said we should probably add powered subs to our setup to increase the quality of the sound. I agree it would probably help tremendously. The kicker is we don't play out a ton. Usually 1-2 shows per month. Looks like good subs run about $700 minimum. I don't have a ton of disposable cash lying around at the moment. I'm wondering if we could get away with adding one for now, and then maybe a second down the line? The places we play usually aren't huge...like 50-75 people maximum (smaller local bars, not big huge night clubs). I'm also wondering if at that point I could take my bass direct through my Sansamp DI box. That way I could save space in my vehicle and not have to drag along my bass speaker cabs. We already use in ear monitors, so hearing myself on stage shouldn't be a big problem. Thanks for any tips and help! A couple of things: 1. If you don't play huge places, one sub may be enough. 2. With the changes in modern electronics, they don't have to be powered. Check out the Crown XLS amps (other brands have their equevalents) that are not only powerful and relatively cheap, but have wonderful linkwitz riley switchable crossovers built in. In our case, we use a single XLS 1500 for our PA (only weighs about 7 lbs but puts out more than 500 watts per channel). The two channels are crossed over at around 150 hz. The low pass channel goes to our two 18" subs and the high pass goes to our 15" top cabs. We actually get a lot of compliments on our sound since we acquired this setup. The bass (five string) and kick drum really pound the dance floor. And on a related note, sometimes sub placement can make more difference than changing the amount of power going into it. On another related note, when the speakers and amp are separate, if one blows, the other is not impacted, or if you want to get a bigger amp, you don't have to replace the speakers, and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted March 19, 2014 Members Share Posted March 19, 2014 A couple of things: 1. If you don't play huge places, one sub may be enough. 2. With the changes in modern electronics, they don't have to be powered. Check out the Crown XLS amps (other brands have their equevalents) that are not only powerful and relatively cheap, but have wonderful linkwitz riley switchable crossovers built in. In our case, we use a single XLS 1500 for our PA (only weighs about 7 lbs but puts out more than 500 watts per channel). The two channels are crossed over at around 150 hz. The low pass channel goes to our two 18" subs and the high pass goes to our 15" top cabs. We actually get a lot of compliments on our sound since we acquired this setup. The bass (five string) and kick drum really pound the dance floor. And on a related note, sometimes sub placement can make more difference than changing the amount of power going into it. On another related note, when the speakers and amp are separate, if one blows, the other is not impacted, or if you want to get a bigger amp, you don't have to replace the speakers, and vice versa. If the OP had some nice passive tops but was still using a box mixer, I could maybe see the argument for staying passive and getting an unpowered mixer and a power amp. However, since he should likely replace his tops before he gets a sub, then an all active PA is really the way to go. And this comes from a guy that is still largely passive. Plenty of discussions about passive versus active speakers, but actives have processing and protection applied to a specific speaker. Those kinds of features are hard to beat. Also with powered speakers there is no need to switch amps, since the correct one is used in the first place. As well, the argument that if your spekaers blow the amp is still okay, can be turned around. If one active speaker blows, the other is still okay, but if one power amp blows, neither speaker will work. Sub placement can make a difference in how low end projects, but he doesn't have a sub yet - at least not that we know of. I do agree that if after purchasing some good tops the OP still feels the need for a sub, he could very well get along with one. I've seen (and had) many instances where one sub will do. BTW, you know your speakers better than I do, but 150 sounds high for 15" cabs - although I guess if it's working for ya.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Easy Listener Posted March 21, 2014 Members Share Posted March 21, 2014 If the OP had some nice passive tops but was still using a box mixer, I could maybe see the argument for staying passive and getting an unpowered mixer and a power amp. However, since he should likely replace his tops before he gets a sub, then an all active PA is really the way to go. And this comes from a guy that is still largely passive. Plenty of discussions about passive versus active speakers, but actives have processing and protection applied to a specific speaker. Those kinds of features are hard to beat. Also with powered speakers there is no need to switch amps, since the correct one is used in the first place. As well, the argument that if your spekaers blow the amp is still okay, can be turned around. If one active speaker blows, the other is still okay, but if one power amp blows, neither speaker will work. Sub placement can make a difference in how low end projects, but he doesn't have a sub yet - at least not that we know of. I do agree that if after purchasing some good tops the OP still feels the need for a sub, he could very well get along with one. I've seen (and had) many instances where one sub will do. BTW, you know your speakers better than I do, but 150 sounds high for 15" cabs - although I guess if it's working for ya.... The only line I disagree with is the last one about 150. And truth be told, that is just for experimentation. Since we have a sub on each side, I was happy to let the subs go that high and spare the 15's as much as possible. One reason was that I own the tops and the guitar player owns the subs and he tends to play everything way too loud. If he blows something, I want it to be HIS speakers, not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 21, 2014 Members Share Posted March 21, 2014 The only line I disagree with is the last one about 150. And truth be told, that is just for experimentation. Since we have a sub on each side, I was happy to let the subs go that high and spare the 15's as much as possible. One reason was that I own the tops and the guitar player owns the subs and he tends to play everything way too loud. If he blows something, I want it to be HIS speakers, not mine. You have to look at the efficiency-bandwidth graphs, generally the point of diminishing returns occurs when you cross over above ~100Hz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted March 22, 2014 Members Share Posted March 22, 2014 My band has a semi-regular gig at a local pub that holds around 75-100 on a good night. We run a vocals-guitar only PA with the bass and kick fending for themselves. In our situation, there is no need for a sub. Yes it would be nice to have but it's not a must. We do all classic rock and play at moderate volumes, your case may be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cappttenron Posted March 22, 2014 Members Share Posted March 22, 2014 There are plenty of bands in my area that don't use subs and sound great. They are usually playing in places that are less than 150 people. Given a choice I would much rather have some quality tops rather than two cheap tops and some subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted March 23, 2014 Members Share Posted March 23, 2014 The only line I disagree with is the last one about 150. And truth be told, that is just for experimentation. Since we have a sub on each side, I was happy to let the subs go that high and spare the 15's as much as possible. One reason was that I own the tops and the guitar player owns the subs and he tends to play everything way too loud. If he blows something, I want it to be HIS speakers, not mine. There are a lot of variables, but IMHO 150hz would normally be a bit high for 15" speakers. Sometimes there's a point where the subs can't manage effective reproduction of some higher frequencies, whereas the tops could reproduce those frequencies with "little" chance of damage. I believe AH said this (and more) in a much more technical and articulate way. I see a fair number of powered speakers crossed around 100hz so that seems to be a magic number - at least in that world. I personally cross my Yorkville Unity U15's at 90hz, when I'm using 18" subs, but as I said, there are many variables. One of them could be people that don't care about your gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted March 23, 2014 Members Share Posted March 23, 2014 To all you guys that contend that your classic rock band "sounds great" without subs ...... ever played when you had a pair? ..... I mean subs Adding a sub to your band makes a HUGE difference..... even in a small club. When I had acoustic drums (I use vDrums now), the only thing that changed with the size of the venue was if we mic'ed the snare and cymbals. We mic'ed the subs (edit ... ok that was stupid sounding ... Kick) all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 23, 2014 Members Share Posted March 23, 2014 We mic'ed the subs all the time.Huh?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted March 23, 2014 Members Share Posted March 23, 2014 It's a Daniel Lanois trick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cappttenron Posted March 24, 2014 Members Share Posted March 24, 2014 Sure a sub will give everything more kick but I also bet you weren't playing on a 200 dollar drum kit either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted March 24, 2014 Members Share Posted March 24, 2014 Huh?? Oops. I mean kick!!! I am losing it! Sure a sub will give everything more kick but I also bet you weren't playing on a 200 dollar drum kit either. It wouldn't matter. Micing the kick on a $200.00 drum kit would sound better than a non-mic'ed $2000.00 kit IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MaseMan Posted March 29, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 29, 2014 Thanks for the comments guys. I was going to look at adding a sub...but now thinking more and more I should look at getting some powered mains first before getting a powered sub. Unfortunately, I don't have enough cash on hand to do both right now. I was looking at the JBL EONs, but anyone else have any other recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted March 29, 2014 Members Share Posted March 29, 2014 I was looking at the JBL EONs' date=' but anyone else have any other recommendations?[/quote']EONs blech ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.