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  • #31
    Don't let the facts get in the way of your hatred, McHale... show me ONE company that actually makes mass-produced computers or phones in the US. Just one.
    http://www.reverbnation.com/christianschulze

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    • #32






      Quote Originally Posted by ChristianRock
      View Post

      Don't let the facts get in the way of your hatred, McHale... show me ONE company that actually makes mass-produced computers or phones in the US. Just one.




      What does that matter? I can name a LOT of American companies that manufacture everything here in America. The only reason companies outsource to China is to save money. Apple, the richest company in America doesn't NEED to exploit Chinese children workers, they CHOOSE to to continue their insanely high cost to profit ratio. And they get insane tax breaks for doing so. More companies would bring manufacturing to America if they could afford to. Many would have to raise prices which they may not be able to do to stay competitive. Steve Jobs FAMOUSLY told Obama that those manufacturing jobs would never, EVER come back to America. *AND* they are already charging top dollar and a half compared to the rest of the market. They could easily do it, not charge a nickel more and STILL make an insanely huge profit. They don't do it because they are money hungry pricks... just like Steve Jobs.



      Those who idolize Steve Jobs obviously know nothing about his personal life and how he treated everyone around him.






      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU
      Response from John from American Musical Supply on why I have received 2 used/damaged Korg M3's and 1 reboxed M3 from Guitar Center (a.k.a. why I'll never buy from AMS again): Footfall wrote:What you're experiencing with these units is the result of our warehouse crew intentionally "overpacking" this product.Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, nanoPAD 2

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      • #33
        But it does matter. You are vilifying a computer company for doing what all computer companies do. If that is not a failing, irrational argument, I don't know what is.
        http://www.reverbnation.com/christianschulze

        Comment


        • #34






          Quote Originally Posted by ChristianRock
          View Post

          But it does matter. You are vilifying a computer company for doing what all computer companies do. If that is not a failing, irrational argument, I don't know what is.




          I'm vilifying a company for doing what SOME companies are forced to do but others choose not to. I don't give a crap if they make the most expensive computers in the industry or floor mats. You're saying that since other companies apparently exploit small children in awful working conditions it's OK. THAT is irrational. And they don't do it because they need to survive and it's the only way, they do it because they want MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY and don't care who they step on or who gets killed to get it.
          Response from John from American Musical Supply on why I have received 2 used/damaged Korg M3's and 1 reboxed M3 from Guitar Center (a.k.a. why I'll never buy from AMS again): Footfall wrote:What you're experiencing with these units is the result of our warehouse crew intentionally "overpacking" this product.Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, nanoPAD 2

          Comment


          • #35
            I'm saying all COMPUTER companies manufacture in China. You are trying to say "well if a completely unrelated company in a completely unrelated market can be competitive manufacturing in the US, Apple should be able to do so as well". That is irrational.



            Also, the child labor thing is a straw man and you know it. It's not like Apple said "hmmm let's hire some children to build our products". They use the largest Chinese company to build their stuff (Foxconn) and guess what, that's what all the others use too. So the entire argument is biased against Apple. It's not like Foxconn said "hmm let's hire some kids, but ONLY to build Apple products!! Because Steve Jobs wants us to do that."



            Also, if you are in the computer business either you manufacture in China or you are not competitive. That's why ALL computer companies do it. You know nothing about business, apparently.
            http://www.reverbnation.com/christianschulze

            Comment


            • #36
              Foxconn has a long standing reputation for horrible work conditions, child labor issues and suicides. You and I shouldn't even know the name Foxconn. The reason we do is because of that reputation.



              But to say that Microsoft is evil because they do what every other computer company does (OP) but Apple is not because they do what every other computer company does... seriously, WTF?!



              There's a reason that Apple will fight tooth and nail to keep their profit margins hidden (today's headlines is that they have one chance left before being forced to reveal them). The reason is, they are insane and WAY off of what every other computer company is charging. So if you want to compare them to other computer companies, compare everything.
              Response from John from American Musical Supply on why I have received 2 used/damaged Korg M3's and 1 reboxed M3 from Guitar Center (a.k.a. why I'll never buy from AMS again): Footfall wrote:What you're experiencing with these units is the result of our warehouse crew intentionally "overpacking" this product.Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, nanoPAD 2

              Comment


              • #37






                Quote Originally Posted by McHale
                View Post

                Apple is BY FAR 10 times worse for this type of anti-competitive practice. They've stolen every good idea they've got. If Microsoft wanted Apple dead, that would have happened. Because Microsoft DIDN'T want to be the only OS in town, Bill gates personally saved Apple. Or did you forget that fact?




                LOL. Who could forget it? You're citing yet another example that proves my point. Microsoft tried to keep Apple alive -- not as a viable competitor in the OS market, but to help fabricate the appearance that Microsoft wasn't a monopoly. This is all well known.











                Quote Originally Posted by McHale
                View Post

                As far as Microsoft "making" manufacturers buy their OS, that's completely bull****************. It's called a licensing deal.




                It's not just a "licensing deal" when you're using market dominance to require that all hardware producers pay you a price per unit sold whether you include their OS in the sale or not. This basically prevented PC companies like Dell from having the option of selling a computer *without* Windows, since they had to pay the per unit licensing fee regardless. To buy a PC, you had to buy Windows, and for many years this prevented ANYONE ELSE from entering the PC OS market.



                To sell even one PC with Windows, a company had to put Windows on ALL of their products and pay the licensing fee -- or NOT install it on all units, but STILL pay the fee.



                You don't see a problem with this? Really? LOL
                Kronos, Fant.G8, PC3X, K2500RS, A6, Q, M3-61, Fant.X7, Motif 8, EX5(x2), V-Synth, K2000(x2), D50, JD800, JD990, JP8080, XP30, MC909, MC505, JX-10, JX-305, TR-707, Juno 1, DR-202, Radias, Triton Pro, Wavest. SR, EMX1, ESX1, ER-1, EA-1, R3, Poly 800, RS7000, FS1R (x2), RM1X, AN200, DX200, QY70, QY100, K5000S, OB-12, Maschine,ASR10,ASR88,ASR-X Pro, EPS,Virus B, Equinox,E-Mu XL-7,MiniAK, Synthstation,X-Station, XioSynth,TG33,Venom,V50,UltraNova,Z1,Spark,Moog LP Stage II, JP8000,Tetra,Supernova 2.

                Comment


                • #38






                  Quote Originally Posted by zoink
                  View Post

                  To sell even one PC with Windows, a company had to put Windows on ALL of their products and pay the licensing fee -- or NOT install it on all units, but STILL pay the fee.



                  You don't see a problem with this? Really? LOL




                  No. They did not HAVE to pay a licensing fee for Windows for every PC if they didn't want to. To get extremely aggressive discounted pricing, that was the deal WHICH WAS A VERY GOOD DEAL. They had the ability to not get the discount and continue to purchase the OS at the current rates they were already buying at. Trust me, it was WAY cheaper to pay for a license for the very, very few % of computers that were sold where the consumer didn't want the Windows OS. If that were not the case, they wouldn't have made the deal - nobody would have. But PLEASE compare it to how Apple does business. If you want their OS, you HAVE to buy their extremely overpriced hardware even though the OS will run on ANY hardware. There is NO choice for the consumer. THAT I see a problem with.



                  What's funny is, Apple's entire marketing scheme has been - "We're not better, but you'll look cool and hip if you buy this." Hell of a marketing scheme because it worked and people still fall for it today. Almost every iPhone fanboy I work with *HAS* to have the latest iPhone every year even though there isn't a single new feature offered that they will use.
                  Response from John from American Musical Supply on why I have received 2 used/damaged Korg M3's and 1 reboxed M3 from Guitar Center (a.k.a. why I'll never buy from AMS again): Footfall wrote:What you're experiencing with these units is the result of our warehouse crew intentionally "overpacking" this product.Current Korg Gear: KRONOS 88 (4GB), M50-73 (PS mod), RADIAS-73, Electribe MX, Triton Pro (MOSS, SCSI, CF, 64MB RAM), DVP-1, MEX-8000, MR-1, KAOSSilator, nanoKey, nanoKontrol, nanoPAD 2

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Just as an example from the part of my current line of work that lies outside the display industry, Cree manufactures its LED-driven troffers in the USA (Durham NC):



                    Troffer brochure from Cree






                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX788Lr4oLg





                    The pricing on these, for a solid state fixture, is very competitive. There was a time when Cree LEDs were manufactured entirely in the USA too, but I think they bought and qualified a line in China for some of their LEDs. However the brochure from the troffer states it is designed, manufactured, and assembled in the USA. I am not sure if it is possible to build anything involving consumer electronics that contains 100% components made in the USA. The reality is that we are living in a world economy now.
                    Gribs

                    ...Music can be used to stimulate mass emotion, while mathematics cannot; and musical incapacity is recognized (no doubt rightly) as mildly discreditable, whereas most people are so frightened of the name of mathematics that they are ready, quite unaffectedly, to exaggerate their own mathematical stupidity.

                    G.H. Hardy in A Mathematician's Apology (London 1941).

                    Comment


                    • #40






                      Quote Originally Posted by McHale
                      View Post

                      1. They are the WORST American company currently in existence. ALL of their manufacturing is where? Oh yah, China made by underpaid children (and adults too...).

                      2. Though they have more money than our government or ANY company in the US, they make huge demands for VERY huge tax breaks before they will open a new branch of facility... because they need it obviously.

                      3. The vast majority of their good ideas were stolen by the biggest corporate douchebag in the tech world. Then they have the balls to proclaim they were THEIR ideas and sue those they stole the ideas from.

                      4. I've supported PC's for a living for many, many years and the Apple "enthusiasts" consider themselves better and smarter than anyone else... and they are usually the most clueless.

                      5. I could go on but I'm good enough with 1 thru 4.




                      You're resting your case on this? Weakest argument ever.
                      Vocal Gear: Audix OM3xb, Boss VE-20 | Synth Gear: Muse Receptor V1.0 | Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Roland AX7

                      Comment


                      • #41






                        Quote Originally Posted by McHale
                        View Post

                        Your anti-Microsoft arguments are void of reality, son.




                        Son? LOL. Save the condescending address. I'm older than you. And I saw how Microsoft operated all the way back to their original deal with IBM (the CP/M and QDOS fiasco). It's all well known and well documented in hundreds if not thousands of articles online and in print. Do the research.



                        You can start here:



                        Microsoft -A History of Anticompetitive Behavior and Consumer Harm













                        Quote Originally Posted by McHale
                        View Post

                        You're isolating Microsoft for doing what was done before them and has been done after them. If it WEREN'T for Microsoft, Apple would have been out of business around 1997,

                        -Mc




                        And if Microsoft -- once they realized the jig was up -- hadn't gone out of their way to doctor the appearance of not being a monopoly, they would have been in more serious trouble. And they knew this.











                        Quote Originally Posted by McHale
                        View Post

                        There's a reason that Windows is STILL on over 90% of computers and Office is the #1 Office package out there.




                        Yeah, there sure is. Microsoft showed that when you leverage market dominance in calculated anti-competitive ways, you "win." If they really wanted a competitive marketplace, they would have said to PC makers, "Sure. Just pay us for your sales in which the customer opts for Windows. We're so confident that our OS is better that we'll let the customer decide at point of sale."



                        But they were AFRAID of just this. They KNEW how fleeting success could be in a market like this, so they stifled EVERYONE ELSE from gaining any kind of foothold.



                        And it's funny that you mention Office, because they CONTINUE to do this with Office as well, through their licensing, intentional backward compatibility problems, etc.



                        If you ever played Monopoly as a kid, then you know how the game always ended. One person gains sufficient market advantage to where he can eventually no longer lose. No amount of "creativity", "savvy", or statistical probability changes the outcome.













                        Quote Originally Posted by McHale
                        View Post

                        God Bless Bill gates. God Bless Microsoft.



                        AND GOD BLESS THE USA.



                        -Mc






                        Kronos, Fant.G8, PC3X, K2500RS, A6, Q, M3-61, Fant.X7, Motif 8, EX5(x2), V-Synth, K2000(x2), D50, JD800, JD990, JP8080, XP30, MC909, MC505, JX-10, JX-305, TR-707, Juno 1, DR-202, Radias, Triton Pro, Wavest. SR, EMX1, ESX1, ER-1, EA-1, R3, Poly 800, RS7000, FS1R (x2), RM1X, AN200, DX200, QY70, QY100, K5000S, OB-12, Maschine,ASR10,ASR88,ASR-X Pro, EPS,Virus B, Equinox,E-Mu XL-7,MiniAK, Synthstation,X-Station, XioSynth,TG33,Venom,V50,UltraNova,Z1,Spark,Moog LP Stage II, JP8000,Tetra,Supernova 2.

                        Comment


                        • #42






                          Quote Originally Posted by McHale
                          View Post

                          But to say that Microsoft is evil because they do what every other computer company does (OP) but Apple is not because they do what every other computer company does... seriously, WTF?!




                          Who said anything about Microsoft? You're the one who brought them up.



                          What I'm saying is, if one is evil, they are all evil and you should not use computers at all. Singling out Apple is just wrong. Who do you think builds Microsoft's tablets and other things? Foxconn.
                          http://www.reverbnation.com/christianschulze

                          Comment


                          • #43






                            Quote Originally Posted by McHale
                            View Post

                            I can name a LOT of American companies that manufacture everything here in America.




                            We're just asking you to name one electronics company that mass-manufactures in America.









                            Quote Originally Posted by McHale
                            View Post

                            God Bless Bill gates. God Bless Microsoft.



                            AND GOD BLESS THE USA.



                            -Mc




                            Wow... LOL - Thanks for telling me all I needed to know
                            Vocal Gear: Audix OM3xb, Boss VE-20 | Synth Gear: Muse Receptor V1.0 | Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Roland AX7

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                            • #44
                              It would probably write it's own songs and then play them for you and bore you to tears

                              Comment


                              • #45






                                Quote Originally Posted by ChristianRock
                                View Post

                                Who said anything about Microsoft? You're the one who brought them up.



                                What I'm saying is, if one is evil, they are all evil and you should not use computers at all. Singling out Apple is just wrong. Who do you think builds Microsoft's tablets and other things? Foxconn.




                                McHale obviously lives in a world where in order to love Apple you must hate Microsoft and vice versa... he probably thinks the cold war is still in full swing.
                                Vocal Gear: Audix OM3xb, Boss VE-20 | Synth Gear: Muse Receptor V1.0 | Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Roland AX7

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