Members McHale Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Originally Posted by MikeyParent McHale obviously lives in a world where in order to love Apple you must hate Microsoft and vice versa... he probably thinks the cold war is still in full swing. No, I actually work in the tech industry and have to support both platforms and actually use both platforms as well as all iOS, Android, Windows, etc. devices. I think with all of my years of industry experience, I can talk about either platform. Again, I never brought up Microsoft, I only responded after someone decried them as being evil for doing precisely what Apple is doing yet people call Apple geniuses for doing it. If you'd have read the thread, you'd have seen that discussion transpire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Originally Posted by MikeyParent We're just asking you to name one electronics company that mass-manufactures in America. Here, I took the trouble of using a search engine for you:This is just the music industry: http://www.madeinusa.org/nav.cgi?data/musiHere's the computer industry; http://www.madeinusa.org/nav.cgi?data/compDo search engines not work in your country? Jeeesh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Those lists are useless. But I see they still make typewriters in the US, apparently. Maybe that's something you can use since all computers are made in Asia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Originally Posted by McHale um... no. The first mention of the word Microsoft was this:And my response was, there's nothing wrong with being Microsoft. We are where we are technologically because of Microsoft. To which the response was, OMG OMG THEY ARE EVIL OMG OMG.-Mc That last phrase was something I posted AFTER you brought Microsoft into the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Originally Posted by ChristianRock That last phrase was something I posted AFTER you brought Microsoft into the conversation. Actually, no. The quote wasn't from you.Did you read any of this thread? Why do I have to keep pointing out things that are just a few posts up?Here you go CR: Originally Posted by zoink You have to separate what Microsoft is/was as a company from what Bill Gates is doing now, post Microsoft, to really see them in realistic perspective -- much as you'd separate Andrew Carnegie the ruthless robber baron (even complicit in murder -- see Homestead Strike, 1892) from the philanthropist of later life.Microsoft engaged in anti-competitive business practices, and got away with it for a longer period, than any other technology company I can think of. They basically forced everyone else out of the PC OS market by making hardware manufacturers license Windows for EVERY machine they sold, making it cost prohibitive for hardware producers to offer any other alternatives. Any other good idea that Microsoft couldn't copy (poorly) and get away with they simply bought -- going back to DOS itself, FrontPage, WebTV, Hotmail, Internet Explorer, Visio, the list goes on. In many cases they'd buy an idea just so they could bundle it with their other offerings and wipe out the competition. Hell, they even worked WITH the Chinese government to promote internet censorship in China.I could go on: their oppressive business software licensing practices; the things they did to try and corner the browser market with Internet Exploder (sic); etc.It's well known that Microsoft in MANY ways abused what amounted to a monopoly in the PC operating system market -- and they got away with it because it took years for the legislative process to come up with laws that really addressed or understood the implications of what they were doing.I've had this conversation with people who finally, in the face of facts, brought out what they thought was their trump card in Microsoft's defense: "Well that's what you have to do to stay on top in business." Maybe. But I wish more people (especially corporate types) would stop and think about the kind of world they're creating when they do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Dude, look at post #42. That's the phrase you quoted last in post #49. It was from me. Maybe you meant to quote something else, but that was from me. And it was from AFTER my question. Plus you brought up Microsoft in your response to MY post, and my post did not have anything to do with Microsoft at all. I thought we were discussing Apple. Also, a list of people that build PCs from parts made by Foxconn in China? That's the mass-produced "Made in USA" computers you say exist? This thread might as well be closed, as it's not worth losing friends over this ridiculous argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 I wanna hear more about the Apple piano.A magnesium-case with a Gorilla glass top. With rounded corners, of course. "Siri, play Chopin." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MikeyParent Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Originally Posted by McHale Here, I took the trouble of using a search engine for you:Here's the computer industry; http://www.madeinusa.org/nav.cgi?data/compDo search engines not work in your country? Jeeesh... LOL. Did you even look at those lists dude? In 6 pages I don't think I ran across a single company that mass-manufactures anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 I saw ONE. Carvin. I wouldn't exactly rate Carvin as a high-tech company on par with, say, Korg. That list is pretty much hopelessly useless. "Ooooh I recorded a song in 'Murica! Therefore, it's Made in America, put it on the list!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 I said it earlier, these lists are useless.I never thought of McHale as a troll with no respect for the peers he's talked to online for years, but I guess it's time. Originally Posted by ElectricPuppy I saw ONE. Carvin. I wouldn't exactly rate Carvin as a high-tech company on par with, say, Korg.That list is pretty much hopelessly useless. "Ooooh I recorded a song in 'Murica! Therefore, it's Made in America, put it on the list!" Carvin sells a lot of stuff that is made in China. Tons of accessories, acoustic guitars, microphones, etc etc... EVIL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Sad man... Just sad.I guess if you want to call someone that has a different opinion than you a troll, OK. Fine. Whatever. There's no point trying to discuss something with someone who has zero interest in a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 And there's no point in trying to discuss something with someone who misstates other people's responses, and points to links that have nothing to do with what you say they prove. Either you were trolling, or just having a very bad day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 WHHYYYYY?? Why are mommy and daddy fighting?? *sob* Aaaaaaand I think maybe this thread has run its course-- OH! Nope. It's not dead yet. It's feeling better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zoink Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 My point in bringing up Microsoft was merely to use them as the obvious axiomatic example of a high tech company that has engaged in anti-competitive business practices ... pathologically .... for decades. Apple has not yet reached those lofty heights, but give them time. They're on their way. But it'll be different from the Microsoft example, as it already is. To be honest, McHale, I never thought *anyone* would jump up and defend MS on this particular issue. But I do respect your position and your right to an opinion, derogatory language notwithstanding. In some ways a position like yours makes the conversation more interesting, because it invites someone like me to state *exactly* how Microsoft has done these things. It's all well documented, after all. I'm not saying Microsoft is some kind of "bad guy" because they're big or successful. They're anti-competitive because they've made obvious efforts to prevent anyone else from even entering their cherished markets. I think it's funny how so much political rhetoric circulating in our country today centers on supposedly "punishing success." But that's not what this is. If what you're "successful" at is committing a crime or an injustice, then the real issue is in punishing a crime and advocating a fair marketplace, not punishing success. Maybe the next guy who is caught robbing a bank should stand up in court and declare that throwing him in jail would be "punishing his success." It would be, after all, depending on how you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zoink Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 But yeah, the piano would be definitely white. And the sound would go out if you "held it wrong." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Originally Posted by zoink They're anti-competitive because they've made obvious efforts to prevent anyone else from even entering their cherished markets. That's exactly my point. Apple are doing this and doubling down on it. They sued Samsung for making a phone that is rectangular with rounded corners! Apparently rectangles and roundy things didn't exist before the iAnything?You don't see Apple doing what you're saying Microsoft did? They have kicked their anti-competitive lawsuits into overdrive and have spent twice as much money on litigation as they have on product design. THAT should tell you volumes about the company and it's anti-competitive practices. If you want to bash Microsoft for wanting to control the market, make sure you reference Apple is all I've said since the very beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madprof Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Both Apple and M$ are soulless corporate behemoths who cannot be trusted. This is obvious, surely? And if Apple made a piano it would be soulless and shiny and require special Apple recording gear in order to be able to record its sound. Whereas if Microsoft made one it would just be {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zzzxtreme Posted October 18, 2012 Members Share Posted October 18, 2012 Originally Posted by ElectricPuppy I wanna hear more about the Apple piano.A magnesium-case with a Gorilla glass top. With rounded corners, of course. "Siri, play Chopin." It will have 61 keys, amazing magical 48 polyphony, ipad adock.hit the keys harder, it will sound louder, its magic!!! Garage band controlsIn app store lets u buy lessons, $1 each song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BonsoWonderDog Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Where is the MS Surface manufactured, out of interest? I can't seem to find out. And the xbox, for that matter. I know their DVD's and software packaging are manufactured in South America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BonsoWonderDog Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by Bernard Failure is important to ensure a strong economy... I am not joking... And, not talking about Apple ;-) Can you please explain why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bernard Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by BonsoWonderDog Can you please explain why? Countries that support failing companies fail.Countries that allow failing companies to fail effectively promote successful companies and so they succeed.It has also been quoted as a statistical proof...Now please use Google and research more if you wish to understand in depth..Alternatively if your a socialist you will bury your head in the sand and pretend I never said that, because in their fantasy world every business succeeds under greater and greater state control You can apply the logic to the way the world housing market was fueled by economic dreamers fiddling with banking/lenders thus creating a storage pot of high risk the world is now paying for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zzzxtreme Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Damn, cant wait for ms surface x86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MikeyParent Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by McHale If you want to bash Microsoft for wanting to control the market, make sure you reference Apple is all I've said since the very beginning. Holy {censored} dude are you even reading your own posts? If only that was all you said then we wouldnt be here. I think what *we* are saying is if you want to bash Apple then make sure you reference MS but you seem to be in complete denial - you can't have it both ways.No, what *actually* happened is you trotted out this: Originally Posted by McHale They will soon run out of even bad ideas and without Steve to "visualize" (steal already existing ideas from other companies), it's is believed that Apple will start to fall. IMHO, it can't come soon enough. When asked why you felt this way (hated Apple so much) you came back with this: Originally Posted by McHale 1. They are the WORST American company currently in existence. ALL of their manufacturing is where? Oh yah, China made by underpaid children (and adults too...). 2. Though they have more money than our government or ANY company in the US, they make huge demands for VERY huge tax breaks before they will open a new branch of facility... because they need it obviously.3. The vast majority of their good ideas were stolen by the biggest corporate douchebag in the tech world. Then they have the balls to proclaim they were THEIR ideas and sue those they stole the ideas from.4. I've supported PC's for a living for many, many years and the Apple "enthusiasts" consider themselves better and smarter than anyone else... and they are usually the most clueless.5. I could go on but I'm good enough with 1 thru 4. 1. A vast majority of companies who mass-produce electronics farm out their work to China. Not just Apple. Where do you think MS has their stuff made? Also most companies farm out their tech support to India/Pakistan. Which Apple does not do, incidentally.2. Which most large companies also do. Nothing unique here. MS has done it many times.3. Again, MS and others have done the same. Windows 1.0 anyone? Admittedly - and as noted by others - Apple's patent witch hunt *has* gotten out of hand. 4. And I was - like you still seem to be - of the mind that "build a computer even an idiot can use and only an idiot would want to use it." Then I grew up. I have witnessed many an elitist attitude from PC users vs Mac. Call this one a draw as well. But this is irrelevant. By your "logic", Volkswagen - whose customers, in *my* experience, are some of the most ignorant drivers on the road, should go out of business. Anyhoo - So when someone pointed out that MS had done the same thing - i.e. drew a comparison between Apple and MS you came back with: Originally Posted by McHale No, I actually work in the tech industry and have to support both platforms and actually use both platforms as well as all iOS, Android, Windows, etc. devices. I think with all of my years of industry experience, I can talk about either platform. Then surely you recall as I do when MS was the ultimate evil in the universe and Bill Gates was the devil himself. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._v._Microsoft?) Originally Posted by McHale I don't see how being like Microsoft is a bad thing, but Apple is 10 times worse than Microsoft in every possible way. I wont even comment on the Gates vs Jobs thing because it is past irrelevant, but do you see the problem - you seem to be going in circles and contradicting yourself. You are simultaneously saying:- Apple is doing what MS did- Apple is evil for all these reasons ...- Apple is 10X worse than MS- Being like MS is goodWTF man - seriously? I don't think people's intent here was to vilify MS, just to point that what Apple is doing is by and large pretty standard "big tech company" stuff and MS was the obvious alternate example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted October 19, 2012 Members Share Posted October 19, 2012 Originally Posted by MikeyParent ramble ramble ramble Since Google apparently is unavailable in your country, I've gone to the trouble of looking up a couple things for you. You seem to think that it is my idea and my idea alone that Apple is doomed to be knocked off their high horse, especially since Steve Jobs is no longer driving the ship. Despite the fact that many, MANY tech analysts have been saying it for a while now, you attribute it to ME hating Apple. I attribute your assumption as an example that you are completely out of touch with the goings on in the tech industry and probably an Apple fanboy. Don't worry, there are plenty of you out there. Samsung's commercials parody them constantly.28 Big Reasons Apple Will Fall - http://seekingalpha.com/article/5218...pple-will-fall Steve Jobs being a 1st class, conceited, miserable asshole (with specific examples): http://www.businessinsider.com/steve...k-2011-10?op=1The laws that their manufacturing facilities are breaking: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...-foxconn-auditHow Apple treats it's domestic employees: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/24/bu...rt-on-pay.htmlWhy Apple manufactures in China: http://articles.businessinsider.com/...ne-apple-chinaApple chooses to {censored} over it's employees because that's how APPLE does things under the direction of Steve Jobs, the miserable and conceited asshole. Apple has the luxury to do whatever it wants, any way it wants. They choose to underpay their domestic staff because they don't give a {censored} about them. And if they wanted to use factories that weren't constantly being hammered for child labor infractions, they could... easily. They choose not to because they are money grubbing assholes. Now if you want to claim that Microsoft is as bad as Apple, feel free to find similar articles on Microsoft. I'm sure Google will work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NuSkoolTone Posted October 22, 2012 Members Share Posted October 22, 2012 Originally Posted by McHale If they made an iPiano, millions of hipsters would automatically think they are the best and the smartest musicians anywhere and would claim any other keyboard instrument stole from Apple. AND IT WOULD SUCK. And we'd be stuck with this {censored} on the radio 24/7: But since Steve Jobs is dead, it won't happen. All vision and major stealing died along with Steve. MAN that was AWFUL. I should know, grudgingly I play that song. I couldn't even make it half way through. The "oh neat" factor lasted about 15 seconds. After that it was a bunch of toolbags void of any real talent. Even more so than the original.If it's possible I agree with both Mchale and Zoink from their perspective viewpoints.Microsoft doesn't appear as aggressive as they used to be, and Apple is now because of the opportunity! Bad form to speak ill of the dead, but the way things were going I think the world is better off without Steve Jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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