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  • #76
    Speaking of different users wanting differnt things (I mean artists not users here!) . . . I hear the coolest stories about how people are using Live. Many of these involve “DAW-like” tasks while others feel like something else entirely. Perhaps you’ve seen our press coverage of the many DJs using Live both for making Mix CDs, performing at huge festivals (check out http://www.djsasha.com/buenos_aires.mpeg), and radio broadcasts (Check out Pete Tong on the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/dance/petetong/index.shtml). I also hear about DJs who use Live to perform, record their whole set, edit it (and then distribute the mix). This summer, I spoke with Vernon Reid (guitarist of Living Colour, Yohimbe Brothers) and he was telling me about filling in on guitar with The Roots’ and then using Live to work on a movie soundtrack in his hotel room capturing one of the Roots' backup singers, recording, editing on the road. Another great story I just heard is Shawn Pelton using Live in his NY city apartment to record a major label drum track (I can’t say who this track is for, but take a google around Shawn Pelton’s discography and it is quite impressive). He used a cool little plug-in called Drumagog to fatten up his kick drum but that was due to the volume and mic’ing issues. He was multi-tracking right into Live. What a great time to be making music in your home and portible studios eh? So would the phrase portable performance, recording, and remix studio be better than DAW? I ask thee.

    double yawn,
    Dave
    Dave Hill Jr.
    Public Media and Artist Relations Manager

    Ableton AG
    dave@ableton.com
    www.ableton.com

    Check out Live 5!
    Create. Produce. Perform.

    Comment


    • #77
      Hey we made the list!

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAW

      Hooray for Wiki peeps!

      dave
      Dave Hill Jr.
      Public Media and Artist Relations Manager

      Ableton AG
      dave@ableton.com
      www.ableton.com

      Check out Live 5!
      Create. Produce. Perform.

      Comment


      • #78
        To those wanting to learn more about Live's time-stretching . . . Yes, the Warp Modes are critical to affecting the sound of Live’s time-stretching! New to Live 5 is Complex mode and if you haven’t heard this yet, it is sweet. Please give that a go and report back here. How does that compare to the competition? As for the other modes, the manual is a great reference (pages 121-125 on my PDF). But since you’re asking, here is the basic idea, Beats mode is for material largely made up of beats and can hunt for transients at a variety of different rhythmical frequencies. Generally, 1/8 note is better for 1/8 note grooves and 1/16 is better for, yep you guessed it, 1/16th note grooves. Tones Mode is perfect for bass and vocals. The Grain size affects the size of the grain (used to break up the sample to be stretched) in this granular time stretching method. Use your ears here and experiment a lot. I haven’t found a tried and true method because of the variety of audio material. But the default “30” is pretty great for bass guitar.

        Texture Mode is for those unruly static and crazed SFX sounds that defy tonality or rhythm. In many ways Texture is similar to Tones Mode however as you can still adjust Grain size. The random element here is called flux and that is a lot of fun. Hint: I’ve seen Robert Henke (monolake.de) crank both values on piano sounds to achieve a Leslie-like effect on a tonal sample too. Oh and what about Re-Pitch? Re-Pitch acts like a turntable in terms of pitch, the faster/slower you play the higher/lower the pitch, but the loop timing remains the same to keep the groove. I know at least one famous DJ who loves this setting for everything because it feels so organic to him. The key with all of this technology is to read and re-read what it does and spend most of your time playing with it to hear it. One other thought here is that many artists use the “wrong” time-stretching mode as a sound design tool. If you’ve ever checked out Telefon Tel-Aviv, you know what I mean. Great and creative stuff I say! One hint, new to Live 5, you can multi-select clips and change all of their warp modes in one fell swoop (as well as other clip settings). Dig that workflow stuff!

        Best,
        Dave
        Dave Hill Jr.
        Public Media and Artist Relations Manager

        Ableton AG
        dave@ableton.com
        www.ableton.com

        Check out Live 5!
        Create. Produce. Perform.

        Comment


        • #79
          OK, last post tonight . . . as Craig mentioned, I’m on the road and a bit jetlagged, but I want to say I think this review method is really great. It is inspiring (and challenging) to hear from all of you and I hope I'm making your lives easier or at least a little funny. I try. Anyway, please let me know what else I can clear up about Live 5 and I'd love to hear about how any one of the 134 new Live 5 features has helped you make some cool music.

          Speaking to the reviewer at large, I not-so-secretly hope that Craig might talk about my favorite Live 5 feature, The Live Clip. What do you think? Ever seen anything like it?

          This to me is a revolutionary idea-saving feature that still blows me away. I lead off every demo with it and hard core audio and MIDI sequencer guys are amazed

          I won’t divulge exactly how the feature works but instead ask Craig, have you checked out our new format?

          Hint1: Take a look at all the options available for importing a previously made Live set. Hint2: Try making a MIDI live clip with 3rd party effect and instrument plug-ins (then preview and import!). Nice! Hint3: go to my reply to the gentleman seeking help saving clips . . . hmmmmmmmmm

          Over and out and cheers yet again,
          Dave
          Dave Hill Jr.
          Public Media and Artist Relations Manager

          Ableton AG
          dave@ableton.com
          www.ableton.com

          Check out Live 5!
          Create. Produce. Perform.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Marco Raaphorst
            mmm.

            what if you buy a car. would you ask for more chairs AFTER you have bought it?

            with software, people tend to believe they can ask for features, but why's is that.? because it's easier to change software maybe?

            one thing that annoys me is software which is changing all the time, which is never finished. as a customer you will always feel it can be better etc. because of this. that's not good. it's not about the features, it's what you do with it.


            I agree with somewhat in general, but my gripe is with a 100% functioning, VERY useful feature from Live up to 3.0.2 that was FULLY removed, with no alternative means of accomplishing the same task. To parallel your car analogy, to me it is like a 2004 model having cruise control, and the 2005 model doesn't--useful feature removed for no apparent reason (I know, software isn't as simple as it appears, but this was a working and useful feature in version 3). Also, I didn't buy 5 and won't til they get this taken care of--I test drove so to speak, and participated in the betas, which was exceedingly frustrating as "select on launch" via midi DID work in a few of the betas. I'm not asking for new features or to copy Cubase or for live to be the end-all-be-all DAW, I just want a very useful, live performance oriented feature put back into the app, as it was already there in 3, which I will continue to use.

            Ryan

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by dave hill jr.


              Yo Ryan,

              Select on Launch: I am sorry for your frustration on this feature appearing to disappear. Craig is right that you can still activate Select On Launch, but I understand it doesn’t work with outside MIDI controllers. This is a confirmed bug that will be fixed sometime in the future. However, you can have hope once again! I caught up with Kid Beyond today and he says that doesn’t need that feature to do his looping (and is loving Live 5 by the way). He turns his MIDI commands into keystrokes by using a free application called MIDI Translator http://www.bome.com/midi/translator/. I understand there is a similar application for the Mac called Control Aid ...

              Cheers,
              Dave


              Thanks for looking into this and for your responses, Dave--it means a lot to customers when the software company responds and cares about the customers questions (try getting a response from NI!!!). Bomes is cool, it is the only way to actually delete a flubbed clip on the fly with a pc (you also have to use midi ox/yoke), I use Bomes every gig and have been for quite some time.

              To really tap into the looping market, after fixing the select on launch not working via midi, Ableton really needs to make a midi/key mappable "delete" key to allow deletion of clips via midi. The only way to currently do that is bomes/ox/yoke on pc, and midipipe/control-aid on mac--these are useable workarounds, but not exactly simple to set up. To get guitarists and other hardware loopers who may not be computer saavy to buy Live as a looper, you need to coddle them and make life easy. Forcing a workaround requiring two additional applications and a fair amount of setup just to have the capability that every $200 hardware looper has to delete flubbed clips on the fly is a PITA. I know I can use Bome's to translate my midi signals to keystrokes in order to trigger clips, but then I have to steal keys from all of my key mappings I've been giggin with for 3 years, which would mess with my head. I guess since 5 allows number key mappings (which weren't possible up to 4), I could use them and not mess up my setup. I'll try that out--thanks for talking to Kid, I'll gladly eat my words and cough up $20 if I can get this all working via Bomes, but still, it should all be within Live--two measly little hidden featues keeping Live from being the best self-contained looper ever.

              Ryan

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Anderton


                * Multiple controller support. Sonar has plug-ins for several controllers I use. What is particularly helpful is GNX4 compatibility, so I can do hands-free recording...this saves hours when developing a sample library. This isn't just "play-stop-record," there's a degree of intelligence built-in with respect to creating new tracks, undoing, etc.

                * Multiple view options. On really complex projects, Sonar is very customizable for how you view the project, what tracks you show/hide, and so on.


                I know that what you are saying is true, but these titles are a bit misleading. Live 5 can support up to 3 seperate midi controls on seperate ports. I don't think Live has many "templates" or built-in recognition of many controllers (All I know of is Mackie control), but it is very easy to set up midi mappings and use multiple controllers at once. If you chain controllers together with midi cords, you could concievably use an ulimited number of controllers.

                Live does allow a fair amount of view control, and 4 and 5 have offered quite a bit more flexibility over previous versions, allowing the user to hide the sends, or input routings, or faders, etc. via a handful of small icons that toggle these things on and off. 5 now allows resizing and hiding of session tracks--this is a HUGE new feature for live performers, totally crucial. The browser is also resizable/hideable, and of course arrangement tracks can be minimized or dragged to the desired height. No, there aren't any view "presets" or "templates" you can jump to, but the icons and draggable track widths/heights make custom viewing options VERY quick and flexible. Any customized viewing setup you create for a project gets saved with that project too.

                Ryan

                Comment


                • #83
                  <<Speaking to the reviewer at large, I not-so-secretly hope that Craig might talk about my favorite Live 5 feature, The Live Clip. What do you think? Ever seen anything like it?>>

                  There are PLENTY of things I haven't covered yet. Honestly, this took off faster and better than I ever anticipated, so I've ended up answering questions and getting involved in discussions more than posting new Live discoveries. For the next pro review, I think I'll have more of the review "in the can" before starting.

                  What this means is that I have not yet hit some of the parts of Live that are blowing my mind! But that's why I expected these reviews to go on for four weeks or so. There's so much to be said about products, so we're taking advantage of The Bandwidth Luxury here

                  Next -- Dave, your presence is proving to me that inviting manufacturers to participate is a good thing. Your comments are all helpful, and I have a feeling this thread is a focus group/market research dream come true, so hopefully there are advantages both ways. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but then again, you're reaching a LOT of people here...
                  N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                  Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    <<I know that what you are saying is true, but these titles are a bit misleading. Live 5 can support up to 3 seperate midi controls on seperate ports. I don't think Live has many "templates" or built-in recognition of many controllers (All I know of is Mackie control), but it is very easy to set up midi mappings and use multiple controllers at once.>>

                    Agreed, I've noted the ease of controlling parameters in Live. My live act couldn't exist without it! BUT the template thing provides functionality that goes beyond simple MIDI commands, like my example with the GNX4, or non-Mackie devices with moving faders where there needs to be a feedback path, not just one-way control. Remember, this was in the context of "So why would I use a DAW when Live is so cool?", and it's one of those really dweeby DAW features that I find extremely useful.

                    <<Live does allow a fair amount of view control, and 4 and 5 have offered quite a bit more flexibility over previous versions>>

                    Agreed. But some DAWs offer a lot more, e.g., tabbed views etc. Again, this is not really all that important to many users, but in some situations it really comes in handy.

                    I really do use a lot of different programs, as each excels in certain applications and I deal with a lot of different applications For example, even though Live and Acid would be considered similar by many people, there are situations where I prefer to use Acid, and others where I prefer to use Live. Version 5 for both programs has really added a lot of useful features.
                    N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                    Subscribe, like, and share the links!

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      hi Craig (my first post here)

                      for sure this is great new way to review products. what a cool idea!!!

                      one question about Live 5: does it have a "batch-tracks-export" function like we have in Acid 5?
                      instead of using the regular rendering option you select this function and Acid creates audio files for each active track in the project.
                      thanks to this option composing in Acid (PC) and then mixing in Logic (Mac) is really painless.
                      thanks

                      PS what do you think of Matt Fink's library?

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        rdh3t,

                        Kid Beyond here. Dave Hill hit me up about the Select on Launch problem (see, they really do take these issues seriously!), and pointed me to this thread.

                        As Dave posted, I haven't bumped up against this problem, because a) I've been on Live 3 until recently, b) all my MIDI events get turned into keystrokes (by Bome) by the time they get to Live, and c) I don't delete flubbed clips -- I just suck it up and deal

                        But I can understand why this is a bummer for you. Suffice it to say, many of us who are using Live heavily onstage have a small list of "if they only put these in, it would be perfect!" features.

                        From reading this thread, it looks like Craig's got at least one (the solo button thing). One of mine (and many other live-loopers) is the so-called "first loop" capability -- being able to define the length (and thus BPM) of the first loop via start/stop, like you can on the hardware loopers. The Live folks have heard about this from many corners, and have assured us they're working on it.

                        Re:

                        Alas, you just lost $20. Please send it to the American Red Cross for New Orleans relief.

                        The Ableton folks shot the video many months before Live 5 was out. I was still using 3 because: a) of a *different* feature that got removed after 3 -- keystroke access to quantization level, which some of my arrangements depend on (it's now back in 5, thanks guys), and b) the monitoring buttons changed a bit, and I was too lazy (I mean, um, too busy writing songs) to mess with my carefully crafted Bome scripts.

                        I was bummed that this little feature, which was pretty key for me, disappeared between 3 and 4 -- just like you're bummed about the Select feature. Ultimately, all I could do was remember that Ableton is composed of human beings -- human beings under pressure from users / marketing execs / reviewers to add more and more functionality -- and that these things sometimes happen. I worked at a software company in a previous life, and I do not envy anyone standing in the middle of the feature-request hailstorm. I say all this not as some sort of Ableton apologist, but just as a human being.

                        Anyway, I've moved over from my old Vaio to a shiny new Powerbook G4, and I'm in the process of getting up to speed on it and Live 5 at the same time. For the MIDI-to-keystrokes thing, it looks like I'll be going with the one-two punch of MidiPipe and AppleScript, although the new Midistroke (written by ControlAid's Charlie Roberts) could fit my needs... if I could just get him to implement my 3 key feature requests.

                        Peace...
                        Kid Beyond
                        email@kidbeyond.com
                        http://biggerbread.com | http://kidbeyond.com

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by lcvl
                          hi Craig (my first post here)

                          for sure this is great new way to review products. what a cool idea!!!

                          one question about Live 5: does it have a "batch-tracks-export" function like we have in Acid 5?
                          instead of using the regular rendering option you select this function and Acid creates audio files for each active track in the project.
                          thanks to this option composing in Acid (PC) and then mixing in Logic (Mac) is really painless.
                          thanks

                          PS what do you think of Matt Fink's library?


                          sadly no batch export yet, though it seems to have been requested enough that I bet it'll make it in at some point....

                          Ryan

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Kid Beyond,

                            Wow dude, thanks so much for the reply--$20 more dollas on the way to New Orleans it is! Sorry if I'm overzealous in my lust for "select on launch" and a self-contained way to delete flubbed clips in Live--you definitely get props for not needing the crutch of the deletable clip on stage, that's ballsy. I definitely dig on the video of yours at the ableton site--everybody else here should check it out, live beatboxing looping extravaganza:

                            http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=artists⊂=kid-beyond

                            Sadly, I need the crutch of a delete pedal on stage, I usually know and can sing what I want to play, but occasionally something gets lost in translation between my brain and fingertips on the way to the bass, keys, or guitar, and needs to be deleted without stopping the flow of the music.



                            I agree, funny that one of your requests is also a feature on hardware loopers that we hope makes it to Live. Well, what is obvious in the post and over the course of the last 5 or so years is that ableton really listens to customers, and cares about their software as if it were their child, so its easy to have faith that they will continue to improve by leaps and bounds with each release. My only issues with the new releases (like yours from 3-4) are when they drastically change functions (like scrub behavior from 4-5 ) or just fully remove functions (as is the case here, and yours with the keystroke quatize acces). I realize that software development has tons of stuff going on behind the scenes, and that these major changes in each release might make it difficult to implement old features in the new paradigm, but it sure does hurt to lose a feature you depend on.

                            Hope all goes well with setting up the new Live 5/G4/Midipipe/midistroke system. Any major reason for switching from the sony/pc?

                            Thanks again for taking the time to reply, it is really cool to see how most Ableton users are as excited about it as me, and it seems like through the ableton forums and the artists that use Live there is a community of people sharing ideas and making good suggestions for the future, and Ableton really seems to listen and get involved in discussions--it is a cool process. Not many softwares are this flexible and open-ended, everyone uses it in a different manner, and more and more people are using it on-stage in various environments. My friend plays sax in Bruce Hornsby's band and they have 4 computers running live on stage--he's using it with a midi wind controller running vsti's (like reaktor), Bruce is running soft synths for a tune or two, the drummer and second keyboardist are triggering loops on theirs. Another 4 computer live band is Sound Tribe Sector 9, who use vsti and trigger loops with their G4s. Live as an "instrument" on stage in bands is becoming more and more common, rightfully so.

                            Ryan

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by dave hill jr.


                              Yo Ryan,

                              Select on Launch: I am sorry for your frustration on this feature appearing to disappear. Craig is right that you can still activate Select On Launch, but I understand it doesn’t work with outside MIDI controllers. This is a confirmed bug that will be fixed sometime in the future. However, you can have hope once again! I caught up with Kid Beyond today and he says that doesn’t need that feature to do his looping (and is loving Live 5 by the way). He turns his MIDI commands into keystrokes by using a free application called MIDI Translator http://www.bome.com/midi/translator/........

                              Cheers,
                              Dave


                              Just to clarify for any loopers out there, "select on launch" only works on clips triggered by the left mouse button. We knew midi didn't do it, but I was hopeful for a second that keystroke commands might "select on launch"--but I was wrong. Glad to know that Ableton is addressing the issue, thanks Dave and Kid Beyond!

                              Ryan

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by dave hill jr.
                                To those wanting to learn more about Live's time-stretching . . . Yes, the Warp Modes are critical to affecting the sound of Live’s time-stretching! New to Live 5 is Complex mode and if you haven’t heard this yet, it is sweet. Please give that a go and report back here.


                                I have an entire live set that consisted of a lot of full production tracks in 4 using the various time stretching settings. Mostly "Beats". For most tracks this worked well but with more tonally dense rhythmic material it was only moderately effective until you ramped up or down to the track's base tempo.

                                After upgrading to 5 I ran the "Complex" setting through the paces with various tracks and immediately went back and reassigned many of the samples. I have to say it's amazing! It handles the most richly textured files elegantly and nearly flawlessly with very smooth results. Now I'm not in such a hurry to bring the tempo right into base speed or use reverb to hide artifacts.
                                DJDM.com][DJDM Game Stuff][Myspace

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