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  • This reminds me of when I did a pro review of the Yamaha Motif XS6. One person kept complaining that the screen refresh was slow. Another person said he thought it was fine and didn't have a problem. They went back and forth and finally another person said "Hey Craig, which is it?"



    So I did a video where I called up various functions on the screen, and people could see the screen refresh...and decide for themselves whether it was acceptable or not. Maybe that's what I should do here.



    I'm somewhere in between the two positions on the iPB-10. When I first started using it, I felt I needed more time. But after a few days, I'd organized my patches in what seemed like a logical way, and so I was able to call up patches in plenty of time. I haven't used the iPB-10 on a gig yet (after putting all that effort into GNX3000 patches it's kind of hard to start over ), but I just don't think it would be a problem.
    N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

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    • Quote Originally Posted by Noodler@TGP
      View Post

      After living with my iPB-10 for a week and gigging with it tonight I just don't get all the angst about the patch switching time-out issue. I already pretty much know where every one of my "go to" patches live on the board (I don't even need the iPad in the unit to "see" anything). Switching to a patch in a different bank is only two quick footswitch stomps. If you need time to read the labels on each and every patch in a bank before selecting your patch then you need to think more about how you're labeling your patches or how you're organizing your banks. Sorry to be so blunt, but I just don't get it.




      2 questions:

      1. How many banks are you using? (I'm guessing only 2 or 3 like MNstratGuy)

      2. How does it HELP you that there is a 2.7 second time limit for selecting your patch after a bank change?



      If you were actually using say 12 or more banks, for whatever reason, you might want - no, need - a lot more time to select your patches after a bank change. What if you have a huge set list and haven't conveniently memorized everything? Bottom line: Nobody should be at the mercy of a machine telling them they have to make up their mind in a hurry when it serves no purpose!

      Comment


      • As I already mentioned (#585) ITT: We won't be looking at the patch change time-out any time soon.

        Comment


        • I guess if you're not working off a predetermined set list (just calling out the tunes) AND you play a wide variety of music types, then you possibly could run into a problem with the patch change time (since it would be tough to memorize a ton of banks and their patch sets). I agree that from a software programming perspective the choice DT made for this "feature" doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense, but I still believe that it will be a very small minority of guitarists that will actually have this situation become a show-stopper.



          OTOH, I'm now debating possibly selling the GSP1101. The GSP is far more flexible and has custom IR loading, etc., but the iPB-10 is "good enough" for me in live situations - coupled with a well-dialed in amp setup and I think most guitarists will be able to find their happy place with this unit. I'm just trying to figure out if I still need the GSP for recording into my DAW. I have so many ways to skin that cat now that I'm not so sure I even need it for that.



          BTW - I'm now working out a change in my rig that keeps the 1/4" outs dedicated to the iPB and the XLR outs dedicated to iPad-native amp sims. The mixer function in Nexus was setup brilliantly so that you can choose what you want to go out each set of outputs. This is powerful stuff if you start to really think about what you can do with it.

          Comment








          • Quote Originally Posted by DigiTechRep
            View Post

            As I already mentioned (#585) ITT: We won't be looking at the patch change time-out any time soon.




            I'm surprised than you can so easily just DISMISS an issue which at the very least SOME iPB users are feeling strongly about. Let me re-frame the issue and see if you still shrug this off:



            It's safe to say that a significant % of iPB-10 buyers return their units after a trial period (based on MF/GC returned gear pages, eBay, etc.). Marketing fact: the less supply of used products available, the greater the demand for new product of like kind.



            From a marketing standpoint then, the only question I have is: does the timeout issue cause/contribute to these purchase returns, and if so how many sales are you losing to this issue? I do not have the answer, but even if it's only 1%, then wouldn't that be worth investing a few minutes of programming time to increase sales by that amount?



            You also have not responded to the SEPARATE issue of the "press and hold" on the bank up/down buttons which causes the unit to scroll all 20 banks in less than 2 seconds. Is there any human out there that can CONSISTENTLY release the control in the exact 1/10th of a second REQUIRED to land on the desired bank? I'm guessing no, since my own success rate is around 10% or just better than random.



            These 2 separate issues are a problem for me and several others in this forum. Perhaps we're just the exceptions (I doubt it) but the sad fact is there is no reasonable excuse for having these high-speed timing issues in the first place, since they serve no purpose. Even if only 25% of us are bothered, it is certainly fixable in less than 15-20 minutes of programming time. (As a software engineer of 30 years, I can ASSURE you of this.) Would it be worth 1 minute of your time to ask your own developer what HE thinks about it and see if it can be done quickly and easily in the next firmware update?



            I apologize for my grandstanding on this, but do hope you will re-consider in light of the above.

            Comment








            • Quote Originally Posted by paka
              View Post

              I'm surprised than you can so easily just DISMISS an issue which at the very least SOME iPB users are feeling strongly about.




              I don't feel like he's dismissing it; he is aware of the opinions here. What he is dismissing is the possibility of it being dealt with any time soon, which I feel is just being honest compared to "oh yes, we'll look into it, stay tuned" if he knows that's not the situation. Suppose someone goes into a store, tries it, and finds the timeout issue a deal-breaker. Because DigiTechRep was being transparent, the buyer won't buy it based on an erroneous assumption that the issue will be fixed in the near future.








              I apologize for my grandstanding on this, but do hope you will re-consider in light of the above.



              Well, I'm guessing that if there was a groundswell of people complaining about this issue, it would go a lot higher on the priority list. I tend to think my reaction is probably typical. Would I prefer a variable timeout? Yes. Does it make a big difference to me? No. Can I live with it? Yes. Now, it may be due to how I use the unit (Banks tend to be individual songs), but really, that's the case with any product: Some are suited to particular peoples' needs, while others aren't. With sufficient education about what a product can and cannot do, which venues like this thread provide as ALL opinions can be heard, people can make an informed decision about whether or not a product fits their needs.
              N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

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              • Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
                View Post

                With sufficient education about what a product can and cannot do, which venues like this thread provide as ALL opinions can be heard, people can make an informed decision about whether or not a product fits their needs.




                Your thoughtful comments are much appreciated. While I still say that as long as this is an issue for SOME, it should be strongly considered for review by DT. No less than two IT guys (myself included) have stated this is likely a quick and easy fix. So also is the rapid bank scrolling problem - which nobody else has yet commented on. I guarantee that if I were head engineer on this project I could have fixed both problems in a fraction of the amount of time I have personally taken posting on this thread!



                Is DigiTechRep "dismissing" the problem? That's a matter of opinion. But, a more appropriate response - and one in which the buying public would be more encouraged by - would be: "We will look into this and determine if it's feasible to do in the near term." That's a sensible, honest, and satisfying response. Instead we got 2 terse statements which were at least dismissIVE of the issue, leaving those of us that are amped up about it feeling snubbed. It's basic PR to say "yes" instead of "no". It makes prospective buyers know that they are dealing with a thoughtful and responsive company.

                Comment


                • This is what I wrote last month about the bank revert request (BTW, the request was also reviewed by DigiTech last month as well).









                  Quote Originally Posted by Me


                  We will consider some sort of user definable time frame for bank revert in the iPB-10, but definitely not for this update.




                  I apologize if you feel it to be dismissive.

                  Comment








                  • Quote Originally Posted by paka
                    View Post

                    Your thoughtful comments are much appreciated.




                    And thank YOU for considering what I said, and discussing points I actually bring up. This is what creates a dialog, and ultimately, some kind of resolution.








                    While I still say that as long as this is an issue for SOME, it should be strongly considered for review by DT.



                    I can guarantee this issue has been brought to DT's attention








                    No less than two IT guys (myself included) have stated this is likely a quick and easy fix. So also is the rapid bank scrolling problem - which nobody else has yet commented on. I guarantee that if I were head engineer on this project I could have fixed both problems in a fraction of the amount of time I have personally taken posting on this thread!



                    I appreciate what you're saying, but I believe (I don't have any inside knowledge) that if it was an easy fix, it would have been done if for no other reason than as a pre-emptive change in case future buyers have a problem with the timeout. No company wants to ignore feedback. But...as you probably know I've been in this industry a long time, and evaluated a TON of gear. I am often asked for my opinions regarding improvements, and frankly, am frequently taken aback that the things I thought would be very difficult to implement are fixed the next day, while fixes I thought would be super-easy are put off to subsequent updates or shelved entirely. I don't know why this is so, but it happens too much to be just isolated cases or coincidence.








                    Is DigiTechRep "dismissing" the problem? That's a matter of opinion. But, a more appropriate response - and one in which the buying public would be more encouraged by - would be: "We will look into this and determine if it's feasible to do in the near term." That's a sensible, honest, and satisfying response.



                    Well as you point out, it is a matter of opinion; but I feel "We will consider some sort of user definable time frame for bank revert in the iPB-10, but definitely not for this update" is almost identical to what you wanted to hear, except that he specifically stated it would not be in this upcoming update. I consider that just being honest and not giving anyone false expectations, but others tmay disagree.








                    It's basic PR to say "yes" instead of "no". It makes prospective buyers know that they are dealing with a thoughtful and responsive company.



                    But the truth was that he couldn't say yes because it's not planned for this update, so he had to say no. However he also said they will consider some user-definable time frame for bank revert. I may be missing something, but it seems to me he pretty much replied in the way you had hoped he would reply.



                    Of course, I DO understand that in a thread this long (!), it's easy to miss a few posts here and there. On the other hand I've been with this from the beginning, and read every post; taken as a whole, I feel DigiTechRep has been helpful, candid, and honest. I value that far more than if he just got up here and tried to make everyone feel good with marketing platitudes, and I think it's likely that others who have followed the thread from the beginning feel the same way.
                    N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                    Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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                    • Quote Originally Posted by thebioguy
                      View Post

                      BTW - All this was completely unnecessary from the start. The proper first response from DT should have been:



                      "Thank you so much for taking the time to contact us regarding your user experience with our new product. We take great pride in providing the state of the art technology and value your input. Rest assured we review each and every customer comment we receive and will look into it. Our dedicated team.....blah blah blah"




                      So you would prefer a canned response and "handling" the customer to an honest response? You definitely are a marketer then.



                      I on the other hand appreciate candor and honesty. You forget that this thread is not an advertisement for the iPB-10. It isn't about marketing the product. It is about reviewing the product, providing insight into good and bad features, and answering questions. The added benefit is that a DigiTech rep is here answering questions and giving everyone a direct line into the guts of the company.



                      Being a marketer, you obviously know all about how problems and requests trickle (or rather, don't) from the support center to engineering. You obviously know how trouble tickets are prioritized based on support center needs rather than engineering needs. You obviously know that engineering tends to live in a bubble deep in the recesses of the feedback cycle of any company and that what it sees are the result of decisions of non-engineers and non-QA types.



                      But here, we have a person who has meetings with engineering on a regular basis and presents our ideas directly to the engineer. As a software developer myself, I like to think I have some good insight into the typical feedback cycle and what is going on in this thread: our suggestions, gripes, and insights are not being watered down by non-engineer needs. The fewer people between the customer and the engineer, the better. We have one.



                      Thinking of this thread as a marketing thread is rather misleading and pretty naive. If it was, DigiTechRep would not be as blunt and forthright with answers. We'd be "handled" and we'd have a LOT of people between us and the engineering staff. And THAT would be a sad thing.

                      Comment


                      • I have a headache.



                        BTW...anyone want to help out and pledge so I can raise money for Hasbro Children's Hospital? I actually use the iPB10 for a lot of my guitar tracks on the demos I've started...



                        http://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/richantonelli
                        ------
                        http://www.bon-jersey.com
                        http://www.richardantonelli.com
                        http://amaudioprofiles.bandzoogle.com

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                        • I have followed this post from day 1 and I wish everybody would stop whining about the time it takes to change banks , I think DIGITECH has got the MESSAGE , I don't find a problem with this , I have my iPAD on a mic stand and when I want to change a bank I just SIMPLY hit the number I want with my finger , and even if the iPAD is in the unit you could BEND DOWN , Then you have until doomsday to hit the patch you want with your finger or foot , and It's not as if you would want to change banks during a song ( or do you ) , when you have 5 patch's at your disposal during the song , and I don't know anybody that leaves there iPAD at home , It's either in the unit or on a stand , after all It is a flashy unit and a talking point so why would you leave it at home , I bought this unit for what it is not for what it is going to be and I would have to put up with the changes that DIGITECH make to the unit through your whining that I might not like , I have played everything out there in my 52 years of playing and it is the BEST unit by far , It leaves everything else for dead anyway I don't want to sound like I'm whining GOOD ONYA DIGITECH . regards Murray.

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                          • Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
                            View Post

                            I appreciate what you're saying, but I believe (I don't have any inside knowledge) that if it was an easy fix, it would have been done if for no other reason than as a pre-emptive change in case future buyers have a problem with the timeout.




                            Your honesty in admitting you don't have any inside knowledge is applauded. However, you then go on to say that you BELIEVE otherwise. The point was/is that there are qualified seasoned software engineers here that have much experience in exactly these types of issues. While we don't have "inside" knowledge on this specific instance either, our EXPERIENCE tells us this is likely a single number in a single line of code. It's simply a matter of finding the variable and changing it to a sensible number. Because of this "inside experience", I question whether this issue has been presented as anything other than trivial to the engineer. My point is: the FIX ITSELF IS TRIVIAL.








                            But the truth was that he couldn't say yes because it's not planned for this update....



                            As stated several times by me, the fix is probably not EVER going to be in an iPB-Nexus update. It's most likely embedded in the firmware. Although, a wise programmer might create a variable in Nexus which would then be referenced in the firmware, but somehow I doubt this was done. That's why a simple CHANGE to the timeout value is trivial, but making it into a user configurable value might in fact be much more involved. But we're only asking for the simple change - make it 15 seconds. If you have a little more time to invest in the issue, then REMOVE the timeout altogether and replace with an "exit select mode" key such as a double tap. Also, slow down the bank up/down scrolling to a rate which a human being can respond to - my suggestion is .7 seconds per bank (would scroll all 20 banks in 14 seconds). These are my requests for the next revision of the FIRMWARE.



                            Thanks to DigiTechRep for at least listening to my position as I'm sure it has grown very tedious! My intention was not to come down hard on him personally, just to be heard and acknowledged, and suggest a simple and actionable solution.

                            Comment


                            • Okay, this should put this topic to rest once and for all. I even did the video in 16:9 We spare no expense here! So download the attachment (it's in MP4 format, so it plays in just about anything) and check it out.



                              Anyway...here's the deal. I added color flashes to make it really obvious where the window for selecting a Tone starts and ends.



                              To refresh your memory, each of the 20 Banks has five Tones. You select a Bank, then a Tone. This is the function that has a timeout, where you need to select the Tone shortly after selecting the Bank. Once you are within the Bank, you can press any of the five Tone switches at any time to select a new Tone within that Bank. There is no timeout involved in this operation, you just push the desired footswitch and your Tone appears.



                              As to the video, between the white flash (which signifies selecting a Bank) and the green flash, you select one of the five flashing Tone footswitches along the bottom (1-5). According to Sony Vegas's transport counter, this interval is 2.718 seconds.



                              So, the bottom line is you have about 2.7 seconds to hit one of five footswitches. I think most people can understand why those who use the iPB-10 as they would a normal multieffects or pedalboard - increment or decrement to the next or previous bank, then select a tone - don't have a problem with this.



                              Note that when you switch banks, the display does not change to the new bank Tones until you press a footswitch because until you do, the unit doesn't know which Tone you want to "land on" in that Bank. Therefore, as with any other multieffects, it helps to do some prep work to organize your presets in a way that makes it easy to call up the right tone at the right time. Of course, there are multiple ways to do this depending on whether you have a very tight set, need to jump to different songs on the fly, how many Tones you use in any given song, etc. It's the same concept as arranging presets on a synth for live performance.



                              I haven't taken the iPB-10 out live, but in the studio, I've been organizing patches so that there's one bank per song. I seldom need more than 3-5 tones in a song anyway. I generally use the same kind of organization live, so it's probably obvious why I don't have a problem with the way the iPB-10 currently handles switching.
                              N E W S O N G ! To Say 'No' Would Be a Crime (Remix) is now streamable from my YouTube channel.

                              Subscribe, like, and share the links!

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                              • Thanks for the vid Anderton! Would it be asking to much to demonstrate the "press and hold" bank scrolling issue as well? This can be even more vexing if you're trying to get from bank 2 to say bank 12. It's nearly impossible for non-drummers like myself to "land" on the desired bank using the 10 banks per second default rate. I end up pressing up or down individually 10 times which seems overly tedious.

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