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  • #16






    Quote Originally Posted by SoundwaveLove
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    It doesn't have much in common, but it's completely derivative. Modern club dance music is just disco that's been watered down to the point where it's not even recognizable.




    Hey! There's some great dance music out there. Even some of the mainstream guys like Armin Van Buuren can put together a pretty creative set.



    Disco for me was like anything else: There was good stuff and bad stuff. I thought Jimmy Ellis, the lead singer for the Trammps, had an extraordinarily powerful voice (e.g., "Disco Inferno"). Some of Chic's stuff was very sophisticated, and I thought Donna Summer's " I Feel Love" was a ground-breaking track that anticipated much of what's going on these days. It will still fill a dance floor in three seconds flat if you sequence it in a set.



    I find much of today's dance music far from watered-down disco. Once you start checking out the various mutant strains - techno, tech house, modern trance, etc. - you'll find a rich variety of music. some of which is extremely sophisticated.
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    • #17






      Quote Originally Posted by Folder
      View Post

      I don't think 70's disco has anything in common with most modern dance music.




      Wrong you are. Disco brought out the 4-on-the-floor kick drum beat, which is the foundation for all house, techno, trance, etc today. Disco also created the 12" single.

      Modern electronic dance music would not exist if it were not for disco.



      As for soul and swing, you need to listen to some REAL house music.
      <div class="signaturecontainer"><b>Elson Trinidad</b><br><br><i>Singer, Songwriter, Keyboardist, Bassist</i><br><br>Elson and the Soul Barkada<br><br><br><br><b>Web:</b> <a href="http://www.elsongs.com" target="_blank">www.elsongs.com</a><br><br><b>MySpace:</b> <a href="http://www.myspace.com/elsongs" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/elsongs</a><br><br><b>Facebook:</b> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/business/dashboard/?ref=sb#/pages/Elson-and-the-Soul-Barkada/17610745066" target="_blank">Facebook Page</a><br><br><b>Twitter:</b> <a href="http://twitter.com/elsongs" target="_blank">twitter.com/elsongs</a></div>

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      • #18






        Quote Originally Posted by SoundwaveLove
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        It doesn't have much in common, but it's completely derivative. Modern club dance music is just disco that's been watered down to the point where it's not even recognizable.




        Just like the English language is just German that's "watered down" to the point where it's not even recognizable?



        Is this forum full of cranky old baby boomers who think the only good music existed in the 60s and 70s?
        <div class="signaturecontainer"><b>Elson Trinidad</b><br><br><i>Singer, Songwriter, Keyboardist, Bassist</i><br><br>Elson and the Soul Barkada<br><br><br><br><b>Web:</b> <a href="http://www.elsongs.com" target="_blank">www.elsongs.com</a><br><br><b>MySpace:</b> <a href="http://www.myspace.com/elsongs" target="_blank">www.myspace.com/elsongs</a><br><br><b>Facebook:</b> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/business/dashboard/?ref=sb#/pages/Elson-and-the-Soul-Barkada/17610745066" target="_blank">Facebook Page</a><br><br><b>Twitter:</b> <a href="http://twitter.com/elsongs" target="_blank">twitter.com/elsongs</a></div>

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        • #19






          Quote Originally Posted by guido61
          View Post

          I remember reading an interview with Maurice White many years ago where he spoke of disco being the worst thing that ever happened to R&B.




          Disco was certainly the worst thing that happened to Earth, Wind and Fire.
          <div class="signaturecontainer">&quot;In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.&quot;- George Orwell<br />
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          • #20






            Quote Originally Posted by elsongs
            View Post

            Wrong you are. Disco brought out the 4-on-the-floor kick drum beat, which is the foundation for all house, techno, trance, etc today. Disco also created the 12" single.

            Modern electronic dance music would not exist if it were not for disco.



            As for soul and swing, you need to listen to some REAL house music.




            Agreed, mostly, except much of the music labeled as techno tends to have beats with more of a rock or funk rhythm, although sometimes its on top of a four on the floor kick. From what I have heard, House music, even the real stuff, is the most direct descendent of disco and any soul and/or swing is in the vocals or a percussion part, not in the drums which tend to be straight four on the floor.



            From what I've heard, European (not necessarily including England) club music sounds a lot like 70s disco in many ways, especially like the original European disco artists like Moroder.
            <div class="signaturecontainer">&quot;In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.&quot;- George Orwell<br />
            <br />
            My music: <a href="http://www.oranjproductions.com" target="_blank">http://www.oranjproductions.com</a><br />
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            The first website dedicated to the the baritone guitar: <a href="http://www.thebaritoneguitar.com" target="_blank">http://www.thebaritoneguitar.com</a></div>

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            • #21
              For Blue to Blue Re Skrillex:



              He seems to be the best known 'dubstep' artist in the USA but his approach seems a bit more commercial (i.e autotuned pop-style vocals) and pretty distinct from the original dubstep from England that I have heard.



              This seems more typical:




              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bjKpKgk1Iw
              <div class="signaturecontainer">&quot;In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.&quot;- George Orwell<br />
              <br />
              My music: <a href="http://www.oranjproductions.com" target="_blank">http://www.oranjproductions.com</a><br />
              <br />
              The first website dedicated to the the baritone guitar: <a href="http://www.thebaritoneguitar.com" target="_blank">http://www.thebaritoneguitar.com</a></div>

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              • #22






                Quote Originally Posted by Rabid
                View Post

                I've been using drum machines for 30 years, or whenever the Sequential DrumTrax came out. Since then most every drum machine and a lot of software I've used has a Swing adjustment. Something to push and accent certain beats. Maybe a few DNA patterns as a reference to select from and then a slider for the amount of adjustment. It would have to work as well as the Swing slider. I'd love to have some funk injected into the overused, tired patterns that make up most modern electronic music.




                After years of struggling, I gave up trying to get drum machines to play funky and used real drummers and looped samples instead, with much better results.
                <div class="signaturecontainer">&quot;In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.&quot;- George Orwell<br />
                <br />
                My music: <a href="http://www.oranjproductions.com" target="_blank">http://www.oranjproductions.com</a><br />
                <br />
                The first website dedicated to the the baritone guitar: <a href="http://www.thebaritoneguitar.com" target="_blank">http://www.thebaritoneguitar.com</a></div>

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                • #23






                  Quote Originally Posted by elsongs
                  View Post

                  Wrong you are. Disco brought out the 4-on-the-floor kick drum beat, which is the foundation for all house, techno, trance, etc today. Disco also created the 12" single.

                  Modern electronic dance music would not exist if it were not for disco.



                  As for soul and swing, you need to listen to some REAL house music.




                  Well I don't hear it.

                  Maybe it's because I'm an American?



                  http://hotfloridaasphalt.wordpress.c...-hates-techno/

                  http://somecempakan.blogspot.com/200...nic-music.html



                  I love most British music magazines. Their guitar and recording magazines (like Sound on Sound) are the best. But whenever I pick up a British keyboard magazine I feel like I'm flipping through a document from another planet. I have very little interest in any of it. It seems like it is all geared towards computer geeks. They have interviews and tutorials with artists that must be popular in Europe. A lot of them I've never even heard of but some of them I have heard and I'll read about how they make their music so I'll be sure I know what not to do when I'm making mine.

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                  • #24






                    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth
                    View Post

                    After years of struggling, I gave up trying to get drum machines to play funky and used real drummers and looped samples instead, with much better results.




                    Same here.



                    I use MIDI and acid loops of real studio drummers. They make all the difference in the world IMHO. They have real dynamics and breathe because each individual hit has not been quantised to a grid. The only thing I don't like about them is that you need to set an overall project tempo. Of course a lot of music today is made with drummers playing to click tracks so it's virtually the same thing.

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                    • #25






                      Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth
                      View Post

                      For Blue to Blue Re Skrillex:



                      He seems to be the best known 'dubstep' artist in the USA but his approach seems a bit more commercial (i.e autotuned pop-style vocals) and pretty distinct from the original dubstep from England that I have heard.



                      This seems more typical:




                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bjKpKgk1Iw




                      Right. Although that seems to be from 2008 or so, it sounds more like what was going on in the dubstep genre when I bailed the electronica scene during the first few years of the last decade. I mean, you can still hear the dub influence, though, for a fan of 70s Jamaican dub, this stuff is like the annoying Casio demo version. But some of the stuff being labeled 'dubstep' today seems more like an offshoot of trancey house/disco.

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                      music and social stuff

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                      • #26






                        Quote Originally Posted by Folder
                        View Post

                        Same here.



                        I use MIDI and acid loops of real studio drummers. They make all the difference in the world IMHO. They have real dynamics and breathe because each individual hit has not been quantised to a grid.




                        I maintain to this day that one reason the Alesis SR-16 was such a successful drum machine was because the factory patterns were not programmed, but played by real drummers using MIDI pads.








                        The only thing I don't like about them is that you need to set an overall project tempo.



                        But you said you're using Acid loops...they can change tempo (within reason), and of course, so can MIDI loops. Is there something that prevents you from taking advantage of that?
                        _____________________________________________
                        There are now 14 music videos posted on my YouTube channel, including four songs by Mark Longworth. Watch the music video playlist, subscribe, and spread the links! Check back often, because there's more to come...

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                        • #27






                          Quote Originally Posted by Folder
                          View Post

                          Well I don't hear it.

                          Maybe it's because I'm an American




                          I know you're being facetious, but I think there's some truth to that. It's very difficult to get exposed to dance music in the US. And when you do, it usually is watered-down, like in car commercials or movies.



                          As I mentioned previously, any genre of music has both good and bad. When I was first getting into techno and such, the German Saturn stores made it really easy to listen to their CDs. I'd grab a handful, put on the 'phones, and find the one or two out of 10 or twenty that knocked my socks off. A lot of it was your basic pop crap - think Spice Girls meet synths - but then there would be the nuggets from more "underground" artists.



                          There's virtually no way a non-aficionado can be exposed to cool underground music in the US. Now that I think about it, you probably won't even be exposed to "aboveground" music.
                          _____________________________________________
                          There are now 14 music videos posted on my YouTube channel, including four songs by Mark Longworth. Watch the music video playlist, subscribe, and spread the links! Check back often, because there's more to come...

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                          • #28






                            Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
                            View Post

                            I maintain to this day that one reason the Alesis SR-16 was such a successful drum machine was because the factory patterns were not programmed, but played by real drummers using MIDI pads.




                            Wow, I never knew that.

                            I actually had a used SR-16 for a while and I liked the sound of it and some of the patterns but I sold it before I ever got around to recording anything with it.









                            Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
                            View Post

                            But you said you're using Acid loops...they can change tempo (within reason), and of course, so can MIDI loops. Is there something that prevents you from taking advantage of that?




                            Well I have experimented with slight tempo changes in Sonar like speeding up a tiny bit on the choruses or towards the end of a song or maybe on a fill. But as I'm not a drummer and I'm usually recording the drum parts first it's kind of hard for me to get a feel for where the tempo changes should be. Also I guess you could say I'm a bit indecisive I and can spend an inordinate amount of time experimenting when I really don't know what the heck I'm doing and then of course the tempo changes always stick out and sound unnatural to me anyway.



                            When I record with real drummers everything sounds natural because I think a good drummer instictually knows how to vary tempo in the "right" places. I even have drum loops where I can hear the drummers varying the tempo ever so slightly (especially on fills) within the actual loops and can sometimes hear tiny "rhythmic glitches" where two loops connect to one another.



                            For the way that I work and the kind of music I do it just seems like more work than it's worth. But then again I guess I don't really know how to do it.

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                            • #29






                              Quote Originally Posted by Anderton
                              View Post

                              I usually apply swing to an entire pattern, as it ignores everything that's not supposed to swing. It normally applies to high-hat patterns, but I sometimes use kick patterns where a pickup will be "swung."



                              The key is to use a subtle amount if applied in this manner. It's the kind of thing where you don't know it's there unless you turn it off.



                              The only musician I know who can make excessive amounts of swing work is Dr. Walker over in Germany. He sometimes uses 75% swing but applies it selectively instead of to the entire track.




                              Craig I haven't tried it in years and I don't have Sonar in front of me. But from what I remember you had to choose the note value that you wanted to swing. For example eighth notes or quarter notes. Lets say I chose quarter notes on on a 4/4 pattern then the snare would be slightly delayed because the snare is on the two and the four, and with swing every other note is delayed. Am I correct? If you swung the eighth notes then the ans would be delayed as in one "an" two "an". This would mean that the snare would not be delayed. Every other high-hat hit which are between the kick and snare would be delayed. Is this right? For whatever reason I could never get the swing function in Sonar to sound natural.



                              I read your Sonar columns in Sound on Sound. Since you are the master music explainer maybe you could do a tutorial about how to make MIDI tracks swing and groove. (maybe you've already done one and I missed it) Or better yet, maybe you could let us hear a basic MIDI pattern with swing on and swing off and tell us which notes were swung and by what percentage.

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                              • #30
                                When was the last time that I discussed diminished chords? I find it just as funny that a bunch of non drummers are discussing rhythm, funk and otherwise.



                                As a drummer there are only two types of shuffle that I play. 16th note shuffle (hardly ever) or triplet shuffle. To play funk, most of the time I will accent the "ANDS" These gradual variations from 8th notes to shuffle are only new products of automation. I have never tried to play something which is halfway between a shuffle and straight 8th notes. Of course I could emulate such a thing after practicing with it for some time, but is it the natural way that I would play it? No. Could I define it as funk. I don' think so, because it is unnatural. Perhaps I could call it pseudofunk?



                                Dan
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